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US Politics: Sit Up Straight and Show Some Respect


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19 minutes ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Just words from another Jewish Liberal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus

Hey! I’m a Jewish liberal!

Also, I just saw a report that it’s way more expensive to separate and house the kids than it would be to detain the families together. It costs close to three times more per day.

Also also, your Moroccan booty just got kicked by Ronaldo!!!!!!

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So damned sick of the media blahblahblah repeating without comment that "These people are breaking the law so we are justified doing whatever we wan to uphold the rule of law."  These people ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS.  They are at the border seeking asylum.  This is legal by all sorts of provisions and even concords that the US instigated even frackin' 70 years ago!

Yet their boundless lying hypocrisy sends them to eat in restaurants that serve Mexican cuisine.  Damn betcha they get jeered.  Assholes. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44550252

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/politics/kirstjen-nielsen-mexican-restaurant-protest/index.html

 

 

Quote

 Protesters from the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America came into MXDC Cocina Mexicana, a popular restaurant near the White House, holding signs and confronted Nielsen on Tuesday night.

 

How can these people prevent themselves from slitting their wrists in shame as to what they are and what they've done to this country.  HOW CAN 45% of the country LOVE THIS?  We are a nation of sadistic, insane assholes.
 
Hope they enjoy paying a whole more for their dishwashers and smart phones on which they troll endlessly.

 

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8 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Looks like an EO has been drafted to stop separating families. Expect Trump to pat himself on the back a whole lot upon signing for stopping this terrible thing he started.

HOWEVER, it sounds like that is literally all it does, which means now the children will be hanging out in detention with their parents awaiting judicial proceedings. That's an improvement over the current situation, but it doesn't address the original problem of the new "zero tolerance" policy at the border and denying asylum seekers. That needs to be fixed too, and I'm worried it won't since its not as straightforwardly appalling with just a photo.

Also, there's still no indication of any plan for actually reuniting the families that are already separated.

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45 minutes ago, Zorral said:

So damned sick of the media blahblahblah repeating without comment that "These people are breaking the law so we are justified doing whatever we wan to uphold the rule of law."  These people ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS.  They are at the border seeking asylum.  This is legal by all sorts of provisions and even concords that the US instigated even frackin' 70 years ago!

Yet their boundless lying hypocrisy sends them to eat in restaurants that serve Mexican cuisine.  Damn betcha they get jeered.  Assholes. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44550252

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/politics/kirstjen-nielsen-mexican-restaurant-protest/index.html

 

 

 

How can these people prevent themselves from slitting their wrists in shame as to what they are and what they've done to this country.  HOW CAN 45% of the country LOVE THIS?  We are a nation of sadistic, insane assholes.
 
Hope they enjoy paying a whole more for their dishwashers and smart phones on which they troll endlessly.

 

I would love to see every media pundit, particularly mainstream ones on today, cnn, gma, and various network nightly news etc, every time they’re at a restaurant get razzed by fellow diners with nonstop repeating chants of “stop lying on tv! they’re not breaking the law!”

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37 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Looks like an EO has been drafted to stop separating families. Expect Trump to pat himself on the back a whole lot upon signing for stopping this terrible thing he started.

Lovely, now all the democrat policy wonks and talking heads can go back to repeating their mantra that “republicans are all good people who wouldn’t harm a fly and we should work with them in good faith at all times, and we can forget everything that has happened and do nothing in response because my hearts desire is to have my beloved status quo restored. Beautiful lovely sacred norms forever, to misquote the Bible I shall put on the full armor of norms, the one true god.

Stand firm then, with the belt of gerrymandering buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of filibuster in place,15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of neoliberalism. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of shield of white privilege, with which you can ignore all the flaming arrows of the evil ones.17 Take the helmet of status quo  and the sword of the Compromise, which is the word of Norms.

at least now we know that republicans will totally be willing to escalate this to anyone else, just like the old “I did nothing because I was not Jewish then they came for me” poem and the democrat DC fetishists will totally help them do it and make excuses for it in the hopes that they can return to norms and the status quo. 

This is the normal. This is the status quo. Your norms and your traditions and your privilege won’t protect you. And there is no going back, Democrats have fetishized papers over people for too long until they started thinking defending the papers was the priority and this is the result of them caring about norms and minutia of bureaucrat rules and government operations but not people. Because the other side does not care about neither, idiots, so they will do anything and justify everything, no matter how cruel no matter the extent of the evil.

the only answer will be a systematic detrumpification, and we will probably have to break some norms to do it.

 

 

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Fascinating poll from Monmout (albeit only one poll):

WV-03 is a district Trump won by 41 points in 2016 and the retiring Republican incumbent won by 43 points. Ojeda is the firebrand Democratic state senator who was heavily involved in organizing the teachers' strike and admits that he supported Trump in 2016, but turned against him in 2017 after seeing how badly he was governing. Near the start of this year, Ojeda claimed he had polls showing he was up among Republican voters, to say nothing of all voters, but he never actually released the results. And now here's an independent poll (albeit only one) showing basically just that (he's probably slightly down among Republican voters, but the district is so Republican he has to have a ton of them supporting him).

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1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

Looks like an EO has been drafted to stop separating families. Expect Trump to pat himself on the back a whole lot upon signing for stopping this terrible thing he started.

What a perfect example of how Trump stands for NOTHING. You have several members of his administration saying contradictory things, and then he changes his stance in less than 24 hours, and don’t be surprised if he changes it again.

1 hour ago, Fez said:

HOWEVER, it sounds like that is literally all it does, which means now the children will be hanging out in detention with their parents awaiting judicial proceedings. That's an improvement over the current situation, but it doesn't address the original problem of the new "zero tolerance" policy at the border and denying asylum seekers. That needs to be fixed too, and I'm worried it won't since its not as straightforwardly appalling with just a photo.

Also, there's still no indication of any plan for actually reuniting the families that are already separated.

You act like he wants to address any of this. He likes his sadistic policy, he’s just starting to realize that the PR isn’t good anymore.

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New York Post, so take it with a grain of salt, but gross:

Quote

Donald Trump pressured his daughter Ivanka to get breast implants to enhance her looks while she pursued a modeling career, according to new claims in a book on the first family.

“Donald wanted it for her, bad, to the point where he suggested to friends that breast implants might help her along,” Vanity Fair senior reporter Emily Jane Fox writes in “Born Trump.”

Mortified by the prospect, the future president’s sister, Maryanne, asked one of her brother’s pals to talk him out of letting Ivanka go under the knife, according to a People report on the tell-all.

“When his friend confronted him about it, he denied that [Ivanka] was getting implants,” Fox writes. “At the end of the call, he asked, ‘Why not, though?’ 

https://nypost.com/2018/06/20/new-tell-all-details-trumps-creepy-relationship-with-ivanka/

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

I am surprised Trump caved. Like with the Muslim ban, other groups and institutions were left to rein in King Joffrey. Yet another low point in this decidely Nazified administration.

And of course, he was just claiming he couldn't do anything.

Trump rants and raves against the Media while desperately needing their approval in some form. It is reported when talking to Republicans he said "Pictures of crying babies are not good politically". A lot of Conservative Evangelical groups were speaking against it. It was unsustainable and getting worst though the polls were not showing it. 

I guess we see how much the Dog and Pony show of a needless E.O gets called out for what it is.

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47 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

You act like he wants to address any of this. He likes his sadistic policy, he’s just starting to realize that the PR isn’t good anymore.

Of course he doesn't want to address any of this; my point is, people need to keep his feet to the fire. The crisis isn't close to over yet.

 

In other news, the spending recision package is dead after the Senate voted it down 48-50. The supposed $15 billion in cuts were almost entirely on paper only, eliminating expired Federal accounts from the books, but it would've been a symbolic win for Trump. There were also a few hundred million in real cuts that would've happened. One Democrat missed the vote (not sure which one), and there were actually two Republicans that voted with them: Collins, which isn't surprising, and Burr, which kinda is.

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5 hours ago, Fez said:

We have plenty of evidence of that. 

So your "plenty of evidence" is Peter Navarro and denigrating the competence and/or influence of five people.  ...m'kay.  I'll give you the former and I never denied the latter.  

4 hours ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Also, isn't the quote "not worth a bucket of warm piss"? 

Sometimes.  Here's a way too long article about the quote.

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Just now, DMBouazizi said:

So your "plenty of evidence" is Peter Navarro and denigrating the competence and/or influence of five people.  ...m'kay.  I'll give you the former and I never denied the latter.  

Sometimes.  Here's a way too long article about the quote.

Hagin is resigning, you think he has influence? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-hagin/white-house-deputy-chief-of-staff-resigning-white-house-officials-idUSKBN1JF30Z

Kelly is checked out, you think he has influence? https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/18/nielsen-trump-border-children-family-separation-653265

Kudlow is recovering from a heart attack, you think he has influence? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/us/politics/larry-kudlow-heart-attack-trump.html And before he had the heart attack, Kudlow was busy trying to justify the trade war and claim that it wasn't really a war, you think he would stop this? https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/01/larry-kudlow-trade-war-616323

Navarro publicly rebuked Mnuchin when he tried to downplay trade tensions, and the Press Secretary backed Navarro up on it, you think Mnuchin has influence on this? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-30/navarro-undercuts-mnuchin-s-trade-truce-line-as-china-talks-near

Ross is doing who knows what here https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-steel/u-s-commerce-department-investigating-steel-price-hikes-after-tariffs-ross-idUSKBN1JG22W about tariffs and has a documented history of shorting stocks using insider trading from his position https://www.marketwatch.com/story/commerce-chief-ross-criticized-by-senator-over-stock-shorting-2018-06-20. You think he cares about a trade war beyond making a profit?

That's all sourced. The five people you named aren't going to do a damn thing. Give me evidence of one senior person in this administration actually capable and trying to stop a trade war. Otherwise, just accept that the guardrails are off and the tail risks of this Presidency are looming very large.

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Also, I'd like to see another outlet source this but the court documents all look like legit filings. If this is true, we really do need some fucking crimes against humanity trials at the end of all this.

 

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5 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

 

https://www.facebook.com/MIchelle.Martin15/posts/1852738241454566

There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research...As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I'll make it easier for you:

There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research...As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I'll make it easier for you:

Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1049751/download?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/568546381/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-hit-46-year-low

Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/Opinion/2016/10/26/Donald-Trumps-wall-ignores-the-economic-logic-of-undocumented-immigrant-labor/2621477498203/

Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/Opinion/2016/10/26/Donald-Trumps-wall-ignores-the-economic-logic-of-undocumented-immigrant-labor/2621477498203/

Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/ms-l-v-ice-plaintiffs-opposition-defendants-motion-dismiss-doc-56

Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/oct/19/jeff-sessions/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asylum-system-fraudulent/

Myth: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-democrats-us-border-migrant-families-children-parents-mexico-separate-a8401521.html

Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody

Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/aclu-suit-over-child-separations-at-border-may-proceed-judge

Thank you, this is very helpful.

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2 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

I am surprised Trump caved. Like with the Muslim ban, other groups and institutions were left to rein in King Joffrey. Yet another low point in this decidely Nazified administration.

And of course, he was just claiming he couldn't do anything.

It's a long stretch between drafting, passing and orange agent signing that EO.  How many times he's reversed his reversed reversals?  I can't even begin to count them.  He'll claim someone(s / Dems) stabbed him the back so this is what they get (promising a wall).

 

 

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1 hour ago, chiKanery et al. said:

New York Post, so take it with a grain of salt, but gross:

https://nypost.com/2018/06/20/new-tell-all-details-trumps-creepy-relationship-with-ivanka/

That's -- weird.  He claimed that a big reason he divorced his first wife for Marla is that her aging breasts were distasteful.  Then she got implants, and he hated the way they felt.  They didn't do her any good, he laughed, on his way to the pre-nump with younger wife #2.

 

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