Marriage Roulette Round 2

[Angel Eyes]

So how would you match up different characters for marriages in the years before the War of the Five Kings? I’m already on notice for saying that Sansa and Joffrey was a terrible, terrible idea. I actually think a marriage between Arianne Martell and Willas Tyrell could work, considering Willas’ friendship with Oberyn Martell. 

[Ylath's Snout]

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I actually think a marriage between Arianne Martell and Willas Tyrell could work, considering Willas’ friendship with Oberyn Martell. 

Maybe but the spouse liking the bride's uncle isn't going resolve the political problems this match:

1 They are both first in line as heirs to their respective kingdoms, who would give up their claim and how would it play out down the line? Arianne seems to have a chip on her should the size of the Rock about not getting to be a future rule of Dorne.

2 Wouldn't a marriage pact between the two Targ-loyalist Great Houses really set a lot of alarm bells ringing in King's Landing and potentially set of old Bobby-B?

[Angel Eyes]

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Maybe but the spouse liking the bride's uncle isn't going resolve the political problems this match:

1 They are both first in line as heirs to their respective kingdoms, who would give up their claim and how would it play out down the line? Arianne seems to have a chip on her should the size of the Rock about not getting to be a future rule of Dorne.

2 Wouldn't a marriage pact between the two Targ-loyalist Great Houses really set a lot of alarm bells ringing in King's Landing and potentially set of old Bobby-B?

True. But was there anyone else that Arianne could be betrothed to? Doran was an idiot for settting that betrothal between her and Viserys.

[Corvo the Crow]

17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So how would you match up different characters for marriages in the years before the War of the Five Kings? I’m already on notice for saying that Sansa and Joffrey was a terrible, terrible idea. I actually think a marriage between Arianne Martell and Willas Tyrell could work, considering Willas’ friendship with Oberyn Martell. 

I've said it before, will say it again. 

Double marriage between Martells and Tyrells because of the Willas-Oberyn incident. Willas gets Arianne, Loras gets a sand snake and a small keep and some land in Dorne, both as sign of good will from Martells, because it is hard to land even a second son let alone a third, and as a guest to ensure future good relations. Also let's face it, Dorne will be the place Loras will be happiest to live in and a dornish wife would mind less about his situation.

Edmure gets a not distant Lannister cousin or a Tyrell one since there appears to be a shortage of eligible women in RL besides Freys and Brackens. But the best possible wife for him would be a young Frey widow with a couple of children so her fertility is proven. Edmure is the only young male in his immediate family and should've married years ago so he needs those heirs popping out.

If Robert was a good leader, he would have arranged many marriages between the houses from Dorne, Stormlands and Reach to knit his realm together. There's blood between these realms and it goes back thousands of years. This is why I think Dondarrion/Dayne marriage(betrothak) was the best in the series.

Robb gets a Manderly if he wants to keep it in the region. If not he can marry Ysilla Royce, a Bracken or even a Frey with a huge Dowry and the condition Bran also getting a wife. Eleanor Mooton is also a good candidate and so is Myrcella without the war.

Rickon gets Lyanna Mormont. They'll get along real well, the bear girl and wolf boy.

[The Commentator]

17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So how would you match up different characters for marriages in the years before the War of the Five Kings? I’m already on notice for saying that Sansa and Joffrey was a terrible, terrible idea. I actually think a marriage between Arianne Martell and Willas Tyrell could work, considering Willas’ friendship with Oberyn Martell. 

• Sansa and Patchface would get on quite nicely.
• Daario and Penny.   Think about it.  
• Daenerys and Drogo, because it makes sense for the Targaryen Princess and the great khal to marry and fulfill the prophecy for Azor Ahai.  She needs Drogo to be the Nissa Nissa and birth the dragons.
• Jon is in the Night's Watch but that doesn't stop him from doing what he's not supposed to.  Jon and Arya, because they look alike and it is a symmetry to Jaime and Cersei.  Longface + Longface.  They will have to die first and live on as wolf mates.  
• Bran.  A cripple can still marry if his you know what is functioning.  Bran + a Craster daughter.  Stark + Stark.  
• Tyrion and Lady Hornwood.  Better than Ramsay and gives Tywin a foot hold in the North.
• Theon and Miranda Royce.  They like to plot.  Made for each other.
• Ilyrio and Walda.  Rich + Rich = Even Richer.

[Ylath's Snout]

10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

True. But was there anyone else that Arianne could be betrothed to?

Well they way I think about it Arianne has two kinds of potential husbands: those that will make her pleased and those that makes her pissed:

The first are those that are befitting as consorts to a ruling princess of Drone and would allow Arianne to remain as heir apparent to Doran. Off the top off my head that would include: Lancel, Tyrion, Garlan and Loras as Great House candidates. Theoretically Brann and Thommen could fit the bill but IMHO they both seem to young for it to feel feasible. Other candidates would include other powerful Houses like Redwyne, Hightower and Frey I suppose. She could do what her father did an marry someone from Essos but honestly it feels a bit weird for the proudly Rhoynar house Matrell to marry with Essosi except people from Braavos considering all the slavery.

The latter are those that are suitable from a social standing but will likely result in having her forfeit her status as Dorans heir because she is marrying the heir of another Great House. So those would include Edmure, Robb, Theon, Sweet Robbin and Renly (I think, who would get what if Boby-B died and Joff had an uncontested coronation among Stannis and Renly seems unclear to me). There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of it happening but on paper Arianne could marry Tywin.

A lot of these potential match admittedly seems pretty far fetched. For example Robb would make very little sense unless Doran had some crazy plan like wanting to move all of Drone to The North escape the seemingly permanent drought or Doran had some excellent blackmail on Ned, knowing what happened in the Tower of Joy or enough to guess for example, and wanted a military alliance to enact some Lannister killing plan.

10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Doran was an idiot for settting that betrothal between her and Viserys.

OH yes, almost to the point I'm thinking it was a lie.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I don't understand the Willas/Arianne marriage. A marriage between Garland Tyrell or Loras Tyrell with Arianne would make much more sense for the Tyrells politically. Also, why would Arianne give up the future rulership of a Kingdom only to become the consort of Willas and have no true power? As heir to House Martell, the ruling Princess of Dorne. Arianne is one of the few women in Westeros that would not become a glorified broodmare and have actual power and influence no matter who she marries. Anything but being the Queen of Westeros would be a downgrade for her. However for any family marrying their second son( who is set to receive no lands, income ect.) to the ruling Princess of Dorne would be a boon. Also the Martells have been known to wed nobles from Essos. So basically if Doran didn't have the Viserys plan and he really wanted to find a worthy husband for Arianne it would have been very easy. Even if she wasn't beautiful with great big magical nipples.

 

[Angel Eyes]

On 6/18/2018 at 3:32 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

• Sansa and Patchface would get on quite nicely.
• Daario and Penny.   Think about it.  
• Daenerys and Drogo, because it makes sense for the Targaryen Princess and the great khal to marry and fulfill the prophecy for Azor Ahai.  She needs Drogo to be the Nissa Nissa and birth the dragons.
• Jon is in the Night's Watch but that doesn't stop him from doing what he's not supposed to.  Jon and Arya, because they look alike and it is a symmetry to Jaime and Cersei.  Longface + Longface.  They will have to die first and live on as wolf mates.  
• Bran.  A cripple can still marry if his you know what is functioning.  Bran + a Craster daughter.  Stark + Stark.  
• Tyrion and Lady Hornwood.  Better than Ramsay and gives Tywin a foot hold in the North.
• Theon and Miranda Royce.  They like to plot.  Made for each other.
• Ilyrio and Walda.  Rich + Rich = Even Richer.

Sansa and Patchface... is that because they’re both fools?

 

[Bael's Bastard]

On 6/17/2018 at 9:30 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So how would you match up different characters for marriages in the years before the War of the Five Kings? I’m already on notice for saying that Sansa and Joffrey was a terrible, terrible idea. I actually think a marriage between Arianne Martell and Willas Tyrell could work, considering Willas’ friendship with Oberyn Martell. 

Arianne was open to wedding Willas.

"Arianne had accepted that as well. One year King Robert's brother came to visit and she did her best to seduce him, but she was half a girl and Lord Renly seemed more bemused than inflamed by her overtures. Later, when Hoster Tully asked her to come to Riverrun and meet his heir, she lit candles to the Maid in thanks, but Prince Doran had declined the invitation. The princess might even have considered Willas Tyrell, crippled leg and all, but her father refused to send her to Highgarden to meet him. She tried to go despite him, with Tyene's help . . . but Prince Oberyn caught them at Vaith and brought them back." - A Feast for Crows - The Princess In The Tower

[Corvo the Crow]

Robb and Meera. Not because it is a politically sound match, because it is not, nor is it good eugenics with Crannogmen being short and all, but Ned and Howlie are buddies so it will make themmhappy.

[Bael's Bastard]

On 6/18/2018 at 10:21 AM, Ylath's Snout said:

Maybe but the spouse liking the bride's uncle isn't going resolve the political problems this match:

1 They are both first in line as heirs to their respective kingdoms, who would give up their claim and how would it play out down the line? Arianne seems to have a chip on her should the size of the Rock about not getting to be a future rule of Dorne.

2 Wouldn't a marriage pact between the two Targ-loyalist Great Houses really set a lot of alarm bells ringing in King's Landing and potentially set of old Bobby-B?

It seems as though Arianne would have been more than happy to wed Renly Baratheon (Lord of Storm's End), Edmure Tully (heir of Riverrun), or Willas Tyrell (heir of Highgarden).

"Arianne had accepted that as well. One year King Robert's brother came to visit and she did her best to seduce him, but she was half a girl and Lord Renly seemed more bemused than inflamed by her overtures. Later, when Hoster Tully asked her to come to Riverrun and meet his heir, she lit candles to the Maid in thanks, but Prince Doran had declined the invitation. The princess might even have considered Willas Tyrell, crippled leg and all, but her father refused to send her to Highgarden to meet him. She tried to go despite him, with Tyene's help . . . but Prince Oberyn caught them at Vaith and brought them back." - A Feast for Crows - The Princess In The Tower

Who knows how it would have actually played out if it had happened, but it seems she was more than open to marrying a lord or heir of one of the other great houses.
 

[Bael's Bastard]

On 6/18/2018 at 2:02 PM, Angel Eyes said:

True. But was there anyone else that Arianne could be betrothed to? Doran was an idiot for settting that betrothal between her and Viserys.

Renly Baratheon, Edmure Tully, and Willas Tyrell appear to have been options, but between Renly's lack of interest, and Doran's secret plots, those weren't happening.

[Paxter Redwyne]

5 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Renly Baratheon, Edmure Tully, and Willas Tyrell appear to have been options, but between Renly's lack of interest, and Doran's secret plots, those weren't happening.

If we assume that Doran's secret plan is still going, Arianne would probably wed noone as long as her father lives.

[Angel Eyes]

Maybe Sansa Stark and Quentyn Martell? They’re actually quite similar.

[Ylath's Snout]

2 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

It seems as though Arianne would have been more than happy to wed Renly Baratheon (Lord of Storm's End), Edmure Tully (heir of Riverrun), or Willas Tyrell (heir of Highgarden).

Seems you are right but I'm not gonna lie that is a bit confusing considering how much of a motivating factor her anger about supposedly getting passed over for Quentyn as heir is for Arianne. She has to know that she wouldn't have the same power as some Lord Paramounts wife as she would ruling Princess of Dorne right?

6 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Who knows how it would have actually played out if it had happened, but it seems she was more than open to marrying a lord or heir of one of the other great houses.

I don't think it'd turn out great for Arianne to marry and take up residence outside Dorne. In all likelihood the marriage would be loveless and getting a paramoure as a woman is a no-go. Arianne would feel very constrained by the role of women in Andal culture.

------------------------------

5 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

If we assume that Doran's secret plan is still going, Arianne would probably wed noone as long as her father lives.

Well sure but: 1) Where is the fun in that. 2) Doran and his plans are smelly, let's ignore them.

[Angel Eyes]

40 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

If we assume that Doran's secret plan is still going, Arianne would probably wed noone as long as her father lives.

I’ve said it before, but Doran. Is. An idiot. Marrying a daughter off to a psychopath is one of the worst things a father can do, as Sansa Stark can attest. 

[Ylath's Snout]

4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I’ve said it before, but Doran. Is. An idiot. Marrying a daughter off to a psychopath is one of the worst things a father can do, as Sansa Stark can attest. 

Joff had gold and a title at least. Vis was a joke from the end of the Rebellion that just got sadder over time.

[Angel Eyes]

3 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Joff had gold and a title at least. Vis was a joke from the end of the Rebellion that just got sadder over time.

That’s true. But does my point still stand?

[Ylath's Snout]

1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

That’s true. But does my point still stand?

Oh sure, Doran is a dummy and marrying violent nutbags suck no matter how much gold they have to spend on bandages.

On a more serious note: Ned was under considerable pressure to accept the Joff-Sansa match, it was his king asking for the match after all.

Doran hitches his heir and only daughter's fate to the wagon of a unloved and unsupported beggard king of his own will and under no duress. 

 

[Arthur Peres]

1 hour ago, Ylath's Snout said:

I don't think it'd turn out great for Arianne to marry and take up residence outside Dorne. In all likelihood the marriage would be loveless and getting a paramoure as a woman is a no-go. Arianne would feel very constrained by the role of women in Andal culture.

 

Edmure would be a good match... They age are close, he is kind, and he was able to become close with Roslin, a girl from the family that stole his seat and murdered his family.