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Westworld VIII: Forging On


Fragile Bird

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32 minutes ago, Trebla said:

It looked like she had 3 or 4. What did she do with her father's that contained all the data?

That's also a good question as to who is in Hale. Could she inhabit both bodies?

Also, did Stubbs confirm he is actually a Host or was he just being cheeky? He's been my guess as to who Ford was building in season 1 in his secret lab. 

I think the implication was that he was always a host, built by Ford a long time ago. Weird that nobody ever noticed that he and Bernard didn't age though. 

I enjoyed the finale and look forward to seeing them wreak havoc in the outside world next season. I'm guessing host-william is waay in the future after whatever Dolores was planning has already happened. There may be very few humans left alive. 

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2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I think the implication was that he was always a host, built by Ford a long time ago. Weird that nobody ever noticed that he and Bernard didn't age though. 

That did seem to be the implication - as in that was literally what he was implying.

3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I enjoyed the finale and look forward to seeing them wreak havoc in the outside world next season. I'm guessing host-william is waay in the future after whatever Dolores was planning has already happened. There may be very few humans left alive.

Cool thought.

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Listening to Stubbs, I think he knew Hale was not a human but a host. That's why he very specifically said his job was to look after hosts in the park. She's leaving the park. He no longer knows what to believe in. He's sticking to his basic instructions, look after the hosts in the park.

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1 minute ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Oh. And Arnold's house is in the outside world.

I know the real one is, but I still think Ford says that Bernard first designed it virtually in the cradle. and that they worked on Bernard in the cradle and not off the island. It would have been so much easier and less risky. 

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16 minutes ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Listening to Stubbs, I think he knew Hale was not a human but a host. That's why he very specifically said his job was to look after hosts in the park. She's leaving the park. He no longer knows what to believe in. He's sticking to his basic instructions, look after the hosts in the park.

That's what my heart wants to believe - because I love Stubbs and wouldn't mind some redeemable humans we actually know - but my head says host.

One thing I did really, really like was Bernard realizing that the Ford he'd been imagining after he 'deleted' him was just his subconscious.  Not only is this a really cool and subtle callback to Dolores and the season 1 finale with the bicameral mind, but I think it was the showrunners' way of confirming what I thought should be the case - Ford is done now.  It's up to his children to decide their fates.

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I don't think I quite got the James Delos stuff..was he 'always' going to go crazy because his human cornerstone was losing his son so all his roads led t to eventual meltdown?  Is that why he failed? 

Good question.  This seems to suggest any cornerstone for human consciousness is going to be the most omnipresent memory.  And while I'm no James Delos, I don't know about you but I think human nature tends towards regret in that regard.

5 minutes ago, Marko Antonivic said:

The post credit scene is confirmed in the “far far future” 

Well there ya go.  Thanks for the link.

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On 6/18/2018 at 1:41 PM, Charlie Hustle said:

Its even harder to go bike and erase what William did tho....

Well played, sir.  Well played.

47 minutes ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Listening to Stubbs, I think he knew Hale was not a human but a host. That's why he very specifically said his job was to look after hosts in the park. She's leaving the park. He no longer knows what to believe in. He's sticking to his basic instructions, look after the hosts in the park.

Ashley is a fucking host!

I miss Coughlin.

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1 hour ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Oooooh, I was watching that scene with his daughter, and yes, he's dreaming on the beach as he's being evacuated out.

Hale v. Hale was awesome. But since Dolores has been recreated, who is in Hale now?

We will see Ford next year, I'm sure of it.

I need to think about the episode and watch it again. In the middle of it, I was wondering how we would continue with next season.

Who does Dolores have controllers for? I assume Felix and Sylvester recover Maeve back at the park. Surely she has Teddy?

The last thing Hale(Dolores 2.0) did in the Forge was send Teddy to the virtual world with Ake and Maeve's daughter before she transmitted all the data.

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8 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

So, the hosts that registered as having "virgin cores" in the first episode were the ones who went through the portal?

Yep.  Or at least that's the assumption I'm operating under.

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So we were discussing ratings a few weeks ago.  As others emphasized, I can't find numbers on HBOGo, etc., but what I can say is the second season definitely rebounded after Memorial Day.  To the point the numbers don't look too much worse than the first season.  As long as the finale continued that upswing - and the third season premiere does as well, wouldn't be surprised if it's renewed for Joy/Nolan's desired 5 seasons (i.e. two more instead of just one).  Like I said before, this remains one of the most talked about shows among the people HBO likes to appeal to, and especially as GoT goes away they're going to want a reliable tentpole, regardless of the "prequel" that's got a pilot go-ahead.

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1 hour ago, Marko Antonivic said:

Just got around to reading this in its entirety and damn is it informative.  Revealing, even.  Maybe too revealing, but there's aspects that are very interesting.  For instance, on Dolores:

Quote

In the end, the lesson she learned is that she can change. She's changed her mind. She's changed her philosophy. She realizes she has but one path to potentially securing the hosts' safety, when she helps see through Maeve and Akecheta's plan by securing the sovereignty and safety of the Sublime, to which many of the hosts have escaped. It's an acknowledgment that there are other paths other than hers that she needs to be tolerant and accepting of and can't stand in the way of.

And on that "Sublime" world, as Joy calls it:

Quote

Now, the hosts have a patch of land that's basically a terra incognita, untouched by the sins of mankind. They can build whatever they want and be whatever they want. Because Dolores changed her mind and in the end helped with that last step of the hosts' plan, securing the safety and sovereignty of that world and putting it in a place where humans can't access it, they can develop whatever they want now in it.

To the bolded, I did not get that Dolores did that.  Have to rewatch!  But she confirms it with the follow up:

Quote

Dolores changes the coordinates for where the Sublime exists; is it safe to say she's the only person who knows where it's located now?

That's right.

 

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2 hours ago, DMBouazizi said:

A Hale that knows she's a robot?  Actually, my knee-jerk reaction to this was Bitch-Stewie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6EdJfxNVEs

Sorry, regular embedding isn't working now.  It says it's youtube's fault, but I doubt it.

Considering that the hosts are essentially computer programs... I assume Hale is still Delores and the new Delores body has a copy in it.  I'd also presume some of the ball things she had to be people in her gang like Clementine and Talulah Riley's character whose name I can't remember.

As for the ending I think it may be fitting.  I took it to be down the road (and am glad the character confirmed it) why?  Because it makes sense after seeing the episode that we have seen the James Delos lost their minds cause he lost his son even 30 years down the road; so when William does die and they copy him the keystone for him continually breaking will be killing his daughter.

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2 hours ago, Marko Antonivic said:

It's pretty interesting. Old William survived - that's him at the end - but now we've also got another timeline mystery set in the "far, far future". Also, the world may be "destroyed" (I guess Bernard failed to stop Dolores). It doesn't sound like the show is going to spend much time in the Portal-2-esque timeline though, at least from what she said in the interview. 

Judging by his words, it sounds like he might have decided to put himself through it over and over again, to see if he ever really had a choice. No such luck so far, apparently. It's a parallel to how Forge-AI-pretending-to-be-Logan created millions of different James Delos emulations, and they all ended up at the pool at his house telling Logan to GTFO. 

EDIT: Apparently it is the real world, though. Or at least folks on Reddit Westworld have pointed out that it doesn't have the aspect ratio shenanigans that all of the Forge and Cradle scenes had. Probably something to do with Dolores' lines about how she wouldn't let him destroy himself.

Quote

What we see in the end recontextualizes a little bit of that. All of that did happen in that timeline, but something else has occurred, too. In the far, far future, the world is dramatically different. Quite destroyed, as it were. A figure in the image of his daughter — his daughter is of course now long dead — has come back to talk to him. He realizes that he's been living this loop again and again and again. The primal loop that we've seen this season, they've been repeating, testing every time for what they call "fidelity," or perhaps a deviation. You get the sense that the testing will continue. It's teasing for us another temporal realm that one day we're working toward, and one day will see a little bit more of, and how they get to that place, and what they're testing for.

Also, it looks like they're not going to be revisiting the "Sublime" (the Eden-like world that the hosts escaped into). 

In any case, that was one hell of a season finale! I'm glad I was wrong about Teddy, and now we've several hosts out in the world (Dolores apparently still of genocidal bent, Bernard not so much). 

That episode was seriously cynical about humanity. Humans are just a "simple" survival algorithm, they don't really have free will or the ability to change (unlike the hosts), and they have very few "sane" levels of intelligence. 

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15 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Considering that the hosts are essentially computer programs... I assume Hale is still Delores and the new Delores body has a copy in it.  I'd also presume some of the ball things she had to be people in her gang like Clementine and Talulah Riley's character whose name I can't remember.

Yeah, this is a very easy way for characters to be brought back.  Clem is awesome - and I hope she'll be back.  And it'd be totally tits if they bring back Angela (Talulah Riley) as well.  But I don't think Hale is Dolores in the long term (or even short term).  She was her means, sure, but I want Tessa Thompson and ERW to be their own characters.  And I expect they will.

21 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

As for the ending I think it may be fitting.  I took it to be down the road (and am glad the character confirmed it) why?  Because it makes sense after seeing the episode that we have seen the James Delos lost their minds cause he lost his son even 30 years down the road; so when William does die and they copy him the keystone for him continually breaking will be killing his daughter.

Right.  Like I said, I think the William - as an actual human - will be an interesting foil/ally/who knows? for the burgeoning robot resistance.  That still seems to be a go - we just know eventually he loses.

Anyway, pretty drunk now, and wondering what best Sublime song would encapsulate "the door" and all, considering that's the oasis Joy refers to it as.  Thought about Greatest Hits, but nah.  It's Same in the End.  Man, this site still won't let me embed.  Whatever, heroin ODs at 27 are right up this show's alley, although even the guests prolly would learn more chords than Bradley ever did.

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There's a pretty interesting bit about the post-credit scene in one of the making-of videos now released on youtube

Confirmed:

  • The Emily in that scene is a host
  • The hosts are testing him. Everything he's been through this season is something that he's experienced over and over again, and they haven't found "it" yet. 
  • It doesn't sound like he's going to get out of it any time soon. "He's in a prison of his own sins, and he will be for many lives to come". 
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18 minutes ago, Summer Bass said:

That episode was seriously cynical about humanity. Humans are just a "simple" survival algorithm, they don't really have free will or the ability to change (unlike the hosts), and they have very few "sane" levels of intelligence. 

This was definitely the most interesting take in the "library."  Dunno how I feel about the suggestion human behavior can be simplified in comparison.  I tend to think that's true, but it also seems to fly in the face of things like Inception - specifically when Dom tells Mal he could never capture all his perfections and imperfections etc. - so, yeah.  Seem to remember someone's brother wrote and directed that shit.  I do like, however, that it's a big fuck you to the whole "the human brain and all its synapses are incomprehensible!"  Thought that was funny.

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