Westworld VIII: Forging On

[DMC]

39 minutes ago, red snow said:

A lot of hosts get happy endings and I'm guessing Bernard gets his son and Delores gets to indulge in her mad missions of world domination/human eradication. It feels like more seasons just means more misery which is a fate most shows face. But where it ended was relatively good. If we assume maeve was repaired along with her posse.

I'm not sure how to respond to this.  Seems like you're mad at the show, in which case I can't really help you.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

This is a pretty great video from Vanity Fair with Nolan & Joy about S2E4 that's basically a director's commentary. Nolan also touches on some of the philosophical questions and moments in the S2 finale in an interesting way, which is something that frustrates me about the show--off camera Nolan raises some good points and questions, however, these philosophical points aren't really coming across as well as they could be in the show.

21 hours ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

Dolores got her body back. A different host was in Hale's body. 

Also, I'm hoping Maeve was one of the [5] cores Dolores/Hale had in her bag. 

I thought for sure Maeve would be one of the cores/brainballs in Halores' purse. However, some people on Reddit are arguing Maeve will still be "in the park" in S3.  But outta the five you know one is Bernardold. Another is likely her dad as it's the encryption key, and I still think she took Maeve for her "powers." As for the other two--meh.

Lisa Joy has already teased "Who is in Host-Hale?" will be one of the "mysteries" for next season. My initial guess is Dolores replicated her own brain ball. But it's all a Dolores shit show from here on out. I am finding the motivations of a genocidal AI difficult to get excited enough to speculate on. I feel like Dolores is basically a supervillain now--Agent SMith from the Matrix. 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

I thought for sure Maeve would be one of the cores/brainballs in Halores' purse. However, some people on Reddit are arguing Maeve will still be "in the park" in S3.  But outta the five you know one is Bernardold. Another is likely her dad as it's the encryption key, and I still think she took Maeve for her "powers." As for the other two--meh.

I'd bet all the money in my pockets that Maeve is not one of the 5 brainballs.  It'd make no sense.  Dolores has no reason to want to revive Maeve, nor has a connection with her like she does with Bernard.  Maeve's story was blatantly set up at the end when Felix and whats-his-name all of a sudden were re-employed without any questions about "hey, where the fuck have you been."

[PetyrPunkinhead]

47 minutes ago, DMBouazizi said:

I'd bet all the money in my pockets that Maeve is not one of the 5 brainballs.  It'd make no sense.  Dolores has no reason to want to revive Maeve, nor has a connection with her like she does with Bernard.  Maeve's story was blatantly set up at the end when Felix and whats-his-name all of a sudden were re-employed without any questions about "hey, where the fuck have you been."

Yeah, it's set up to look like the two red gloved lackey's will try to revive/save Maeve in the park for S3. However, I'll gladly take the bet of all the money in your pockets that the writers are gonna make that a switcheroo and Host-Hale will end up being the "real" Maeve. 

[red snow]

1 hour ago, DMBouazizi said:

I'm not sure how to respond to this.  Seems like you're mad at the show, in which case I can't really help you.

Not at all. I'm just saying it would be nice for the characters to have a relatively happy ending. Misery for them, not me. 

It's a bit like the rub if getting to see Luke, Han and co return to the screen 30 years later. It means any chance of a happy ending is gone as there's no drama in characters having a content life. So the price for seeing characters we like in entertaining stories usually means bad news for the characters.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, DMBouazizi said:

1:08:45 - Even before the big reveal, we see Strand's tech freaking out that "this isn't the guest's data, this is something else."  Then Halores proceeds to kill everybody.  Go back to that scene though - I think it might be a hint.  Dolores sent a lot of stuff.  ? A lot of host data, rather than the guest data they were expecting. ?

Quick comment on rewatching this - the conversation about the data is when Halores pays attention and presumably decides to kill them - contrary to my original take she's definitely reacting as Dolores before Bernard says anything. I dont think the original payload is the sublime transfer, nor is it the guest data so I think this is another of the mysteries. What was Dolores attempting to send to the Delos servers? It seems reasonable to assume it was not going to be helpful to Delos.

After she kills them all she changes the destination and says she's decided to preserve the sublime world, which wasn't her original plan so still doesnt fit that being the first data transfer.

[Cas Stark]

I was really hoping poor Clem would get some redemption, but yes, that entire sequence was beautifully shot.

I don't think D took Maeve's controller, or probably Teddy's either, although I assume you can live two separate lives, one in the sublime and one in the real world.

I would love to see AI Logan next season.  My guess is that "Emily" from the far future is some version of the AI interrogating William....but since we don't know what the showrunners meant by 'far' into the future. 5 years? 20 years? hard to say except it looks like Ed Harris is in to the end.  And it looks like Delos may have/will abandon the park because the forge, assuming that is RW, has not been rebuilt since D flooded it.

*Count me as glad I stopped worrying about what the fuck Bernarnold was doing 'when'...it didn't matter really...which kind of indicates that this was a little too much subterfuge on the part of the show.  

*I was disappointed that they are going to again wait more than a year for season 3, this seems a bit dangerous, especially since the show did not build out the audience at all this season.  If HBO is looking for that 'tentpole' I don't think Westworld is it. But who knows, BB didn't really break out for a couple of years either.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 hours ago, RumHam said:

Because he cut his arm open and looked for the data port but didn't find one? 

I tried rewatching the episode late last night, but fell asleep. However, I did see the first few scenes, including the one with William cutting his forearm open. I’ve seen war movies where guys torture one another by sticking their fingers in small bullet hole wounds. You could have put a silver dollar in the hole in William’s arm, and he wasn’t reacting at all to sticking half of his finger in his arm. That seems really odd to me.

Didn’t they say in season one that the original hosts were more organic?  

[Corvinus85]

The original hosts were more mechanical. The new ones are more organic.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

The original hosts were more mechanical. The new ones are more organic.

K. Still, how was he digging into his arm like that while not reacting at all? And afterwards Delores gives a gun and he’s using his arm like there isn’t a giant gaping hole in it?

[unJon]

4 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

K. Still, how was he digging into his arm like that while not reacting at all? And afterwards Delores gives a gun and he’s using his arm like there isn’t a giant gaping hole in it?

Maybe it’s already into the flash forward timeline and he is a robot?

[Corvinus85]

3 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

K. Still, how was he digging into his arm like that while not reacting at all? And afterwards Delores gives a gun and he’s using his arm like there isn’t a giant gaping hole in it?

Well the guy gets shot multiple times, gets beaten up a lot, and can still go on. So yes, either he is a host, and can't feel pain, or he can endure pain because he is a tough sob and a psychopath. 

[Relic]

5 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

K. Still, how was he digging into his arm like that while not reacting at all? And afterwards Delores gives a gun and he’s using his arm like there isn’t a giant gaping hole in it?

Yeah that stands out to me as well, which is what me think Williams entire story in the finale was in the new "future" timeline

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, Relic said:

Yeah that stands out to me as well, which is what me think Williams entire story in the finale was in the new "future" timeline

I agree, based on what Joy/Nolan have said, it looks like that parts of his story that we saw from Season 2 will have taken place as a human in the present, and parts will be as host/robot/hybrid in the future.  Presumably, either he wanted another chance to change his destiny of killing his daughter or somebody put him in host purgatory because as AI Logan said, he's irredeemable. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, unJon said:

Maybe it’s already into the flash forward timeline and he is a robot?

 

22 minutes ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

Well the guy gets shot multiple times, gets beaten up a lot, and can still go on. So yes, either he is a host, and can't feel pain, or he can endure pain because he is a tough sob and a psychopath. 

 

21 minutes ago, Relic said:

Yeah that stands out to me as well, which is what me think Williams entire story in the finale was in the new "future" timeline

My argument has been that he’s probably a host. A human being cannot sustain that much physical damage without damn near immediate medical attention. Also, he probably would have gone into shock from having his hand blown up. Something isn’t right here, and perhaps it is correct to say that this was from a future timeline.

The other thing I still can’t shake is his daughter. It seems fairly conclusive that he killed her, so how is she back, and more importantly, why would host Emily be torturing her host father. That seems odd and out of place, considering she was trying to help him in the park.

[Cas Stark]

Emily 2.0 is probably a host created by the AI or someone, using her because him killing her is his cornerstone, I would say it was the AI manifesting as Emily for the same reason, but since [I think] it's supposed to be the real world, not the virtual world, it probably isn't the AI as a hologram.

[Theda Baratheon]

I'm just plain old confused lol. Bloody hell. 

[Cas Stark]

10 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I'm just plain old confused lol. Bloody hell. 

You know what, that's bad for the show.  People who are scifi fans and already well versed in VR/matrix/AI type of stories, if 'we' are confused, how is WW ever going to gain a wider audience?  Every time my SO sees that WW is on, it's 'is that a robot, ' are they robots' and my last explanation to the question was 'those two are robots but they are in a VR simulation and the third guy is an AI like in the matrix and I thought 'no wonder this show lost ratings this year'.

[Theda Baratheon]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

You know what, that's bad for the show.  People who are scifi fans and already well versed in VR/matrix/AI type of stories, if 'we' are confused, how is WW ever going to gain a wider audience?  Every time my SO sees that WW is on, it's 'is that a robot, ' are they robots' and my last explanation to the question was 'those two are robots but they are in a VR simulation and the third guy is an AI like in the matrix and I thought 'no wonder this show lost ratings this year'.

I think I might agree with you, to an extent Cas. 

I think the show does some things excellent, parts of it are truly fantastic and then...parts are a bit needlessly confusing. 

I love this show and will continue to reccomend it and watch it and will definitely be rewatching it but...I can't say I was 100% on board with everything. It's not above criticism. 

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't usually get this confused, i'm quite good with multiple worlds and timelines and stuff but this season my brain is just like: ''whaaaa'' I think after some rewatches I'll get it but this is definitely niche TV.