Formula One 2018

[red snow]

13 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Nooooo. Ron Dennis got them in this mess to start with, he's the last person you want to try to get you out of it.

Hamilton has always said he has no interest in beating Schumacher's record. His plan has always been to retire from F1 whilst he was relatively young enough to do something else, and he's just started his music career (doing some vocals on Christine Aguilera's new record, of all things). The scuttlebutt is that he's been asking for a 2-year contract so he can assess the 2021 regulations and if he thinks he can keep winning he'll stay, if not he'll retire. I think Hamilton will be content with becoming the joint-second-best F1 driver of all time (which only requires one more title) and the best British driver of all time (arguably he's already there). Maybe if he'd won 2007 and 2016 and Schumacher's record was more achievable (as he'd be equalling him this year), he'd be thinking more about it.

Ron Dennis was still overseeing McLaren when they were dominant in late 90s early 2000s though. I think the infighting to wrestle control of the team via shareholders etc was the problem. Too much focus in that and not enough on the actual F1 team.

I agree that Hamilton is gone as soon as he thinks he can't win championships but I do think he'd try and go for the title or at least finish ahead of Vettel. I think if Vettel wasn't settled with Ferrari Hamilton would stick around just to finish his career with Ferrari something he has never shied away from admitting he wants to do

[red snow]

I was at Silverstone for the grand Prix and have to say it was a great experience. It was relatively easy to follow as there are large screens most places and loudspeakers everywhere. I was also lucky in my viewing choices. I was at luffield for final practice and qualifying so caught Hartley's and strolls crash. On the Sunday I was at the exit from Stowe and before the pit lane so caught the majority of Hamilton's overtakes.

They also screened the England game which was great as there were tens of thousands of people watching it. Intense atmosphere. And incredibly sunny throughout (some shade would have been nice).

I'm still concerned about mercedes tactics regarding pit stops and safety cars. I feel they should have covered themselves by having bottas pit when Vettel did. It seemed to ruin his race although I guess it was the second safety car that messed up whatever strategy mercedes might have had.

Hamilton should be happy with performance given he was in 18th on lap one

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, red snow said:

I feel they should have covered themselves by having bottas pit when Vettel did. It seemed to ruin his race

While it looks terrible while it's happening, I don't think Bottas would realistically have been any better off if he had pitted. He'd just have been coming from the other direction, chasing down rather than losing spots. And this way they could at least hope for the tires holding out.

[red snow]

52 minutes ago, Fellaining Da Bruyne said:

While it looks terrible while it's happening, I don't think Bottas would realistically have been any better off if he had pitted. He'd just have been coming from the other direction, chasing down rather than losing spots. And this way they could at least hope for the tires holding out.

I still think he'd be in control of his own fate if they'd pitted him. As it was he had the oldest set of tyres on and was defenceless. Maybe he'd have only ever finished second or third (I'm assuming they'd have always let Hamilton pass to chase Vettel ). I guess the original plan was for bottas to hold Vettel up for Hamilton and have the option of staying out for rest of the race. The second stop giving Vettel a free pit screwed that plan up

[Lord of Oop North]

On 7/10/2018 at 8:12 AM, red snow said:

I was at Silverstone for the grand Prix and have to say it was a great experience. It was relatively easy to follow as there are large screens most places and loudspeakers everywhere. I was also lucky in my viewing choices. I was at luffield for final practice and qualifying so caught Hartley's and strolls crash. On the Sunday I was at the exit from Stowe and before the pit lane so caught the majority of Hamilton's overtakes.

They also screened the England game which was great as there were tens of thousands of people watching it. Intense atmosphere. And incredibly sunny throughout (some shade would have been nice).

 

Sounds great! I hope to make it to a Grand Prix in Europe some day, and Silverstone is certainly at the top of that list. Been to Montreal for F1 and plenty of IndyCar races - but a race at Silverstone or Monza would be so much fun .

Last week I said that Austria was my favorite race of the season but this one was even better. That final third with the battle between the top teams was fantastic! That move by Vettel on Bottas was stone cold.

[Loge]

On 7/5/2018 at 11:39 PM, red snow said:

Ron Dennis was still overseeing McLaren when they were dominant in late 90s early 2000s though. I think the infighting to wrestle control of the team via shareholders etc was the problem. Too much focus in that and not enough on the actual F1 team.

McLaren was very successful under Dennis in the 1980s and early 90s. After that, not so much. They won the drivers championship in 1998 and 1999 with Mika Häkkinen and 2008 with Lewis Hamilton. They also won the constructors championship 1998. That's something but not that great for a time span of 25 years. And most of it can be attributed to Mercedes engines and Adrian Newey.

 

Meanwhile, Hamilton has signed a two-year contract with Mercedes. So each of the top three has one of their drivers fixed.

 

Bottas fixed for 2019.

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Loge said:

McLaren was very successful under Dennis in the 1980s and early 90s. After that, not so much. They won the drivers championship in 1998 and 1999 with Mika Häkkinen and 2008 with Lewis Hamilton. They also won the constructors championship 1998. That's something but not that great for a time span of 25 years. And most of it can be attributed to Mercedes engines and Adrian Newey.

 

Meanwhile, Hamilton has signed a two-year contract with Mercedes. So each of the top three has one of their drivers fixed.

 

Bottas fixed for 2019.

It's not a bad track record for the team and their post Ron Dennis record is much worse. They need an overhaul it doesn't have to be Ron Dennis but someone with his approach would probably achieve better results than whatever their current approach is (seems to have been self denial).

The BBC article pointed out the main reason these contracts are until 2020 is because many of the teams haven't renewed contracts to be in F1 beyond and that's likely to remain while they argue over 2021 rules and regulations changes.

I'm pleased Bottas got an extension, he's a great second driver. That said we really have to hope that neither Ferrari or mercedes become dominant in the next two years as we'll have very dull championships with dominant drivers with no in team threats. I guess if le clerc replaces raikonnen there may be dissension in the Ferrari ranks. If any team becomes dominant from a spectator POV I hope it's red bull because with the current driver's we'd still have a great championship battle.

[Werthead]

BREAKING! news over Force India. Some very weird stuff is going down. The team's financial situation, brought about by owner Vijay Mallya's legal issues with the Indian government, had been deemed critical but a fresh cash infusion today from new sponsors Rich Energy Drinks (who no-one seems to have ever heard of before) looked set to tide the team over until the end of the season.

However, Sergio Perez's patience with the team apparently snapped this weak. He hasn't been paid his wages for some time, so he and his manager have sued them (like, this afternoon, after 2nd Practice) for $4 million in unpaid wages. This has apparently forced the company into administration. It's now unclear what this means for Force India's operations at the Hungarian Grand Prix over the weekend (Perez took part in practice but ducked out of his scheduled media appearances).

Perez suing the company may also mean that his Mexican backers are considering pulling out, which would cause additional financial chaos for Force India.

This is also linked to a fresh round of rumours in the drivers silly season. With the top teams now set (Riccardio's new Red Bull contract is apparently imminent and Ferrari are now leaning back to retaining Raikkonen), eyes have turned to the midfield. Hartley is apparently 100% gone at the end of the season and Red Bull want to bring Sainz back to Toro Rosso (Sainz reportedly is not keen at the prospect of running around in a Toro Rosso for another 2-3 years waiting for a senior team seat, but Renault are unwilling to pay the break clause in Sainz's contract to keep him there).  Ocon is now looking likely for Renault to partner Hulkenberg instead (Perez may have been interested in that seat, so Ocon going there instead may have pissed him off even more). Perez had been linked to Haas to replace a shambolic Grosjean (and having a North American driver helps their US brand), but Grosjean's last two finishes were very strong, so Haas apparently want to give him more of a chance to improve for the rest of the season before committing to that course. Ferrari want LeClerc to have a stronger drive somewhere up the field from Sauber, but the rapid fire movement isn't leaving them many options. Allegedly Stroll and his very rich father have also been snooping around other teams, given that Williams appear to be going nowhere.

If Perez inadvertently destroys Force India and prevents them from taking part in the rest of the season, he may have shot himself in the foot, with no drive for the rest of the year and such a move would hardly convince another team to take him on even as a pay driver (Sirotkin and Stroll both apparently bring a lot more money to the table anyway).

However, the most brilliant, Game of Thrones-style backstabbing rumour is that Perez has orchestrated Force India's shutdown so they will have to sell out...to Lawrence Stroll, who will then rebrand Force India as Stroll Racing, move Lance over, give Ocon the heave-ho (but he's protected by Mercedes and will land at Renault anyway) and boom, there we go.

Very weird stuff. Interesting to see how this unfolds.

[williamjm]

Hopefully Force India manage to survive their current issues in some form. They've always done a good job of delivering a car at the front of the midfield on a relatively modest budget.

[Werthead]

11 minutes ago, williamjm said:

Hopefully Force India manage to survive their current issues in some form. They've always done a good job of delivering a car at the front of the midfield on a relatively modest budget.

Well, the team itself will survive (they used to be Jordan F1, after all), but they won't be Force India any more. Likely they'll be Stroll Racing, and will probably lose the pink colour scheme by the end of the season at the latest.

[BigFatCoward]

Whatever you think about his personality, Hamilton is an absolute master in the wet.

[red snow]

I agree those conditions show the true masters. Interesting how Kimi and Hartley who have experience in other motorsports shone. And gasly again demanding a better drive. I suspect sainz picked up some tricks from his dad as that was possibly the best drive. It'll be a crime if he is without a drive next year which seems likely with there not being room for him in red bull (where else will ricciardo go at this point) and Renault keen to have ocon. I'd stick with sainz tbh.

Anyway easily one of the best qualifying session in a while. Race should be interesting as Ferrari seemed faster in dry although I'd be happy for more rain tomorrow.

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, red snow said:

I agree those conditions show the true masters. Interesting how Kimi and Hartley who have experience in other motorsports shone. And gasly again demanding a better drive. I suspect sainz picked up some tricks from his dad as that was possibly the best drive. It'll be a crime if he is without a drive next year which seems likely with there not being room for him in red bull (where else will ricciardo go at this point) and Renault keen to have ocon. I'd stick with sainz tbh.

Anyway easily one of the best qualifying session in a while. Race should be interesting as Ferrari seemed faster in dry although I'd be happy for more rain tomorrow.

It's almost certain that Toro Rosso is dropping Hartley and Sainz will go back there, although apparently there has been some provisional interest from McLaren (who are debating getting a new driver in next year regardless of Alonso's status, so Sainz would either replace him or replace Vandoorne and drive alongside Alonso in a double-Spanish driver line-up) and Williams (who might lose Stroll to New Force India).

I think the general feeling is that Sainz isn't quite Grade-A superstar material, but he's a very good second-tier driver and it'd be a shame to lose him (especially when considerably less talented drivers like Hartley, Sirotkin and Ericsson are trundling around), and he gives great engineering feedback, so they'll try to keep him in the sport somehow.

[red snow]

7 minutes ago, Werthead said:

It's almost certain that Toro Rosso is dropping Hartley and Sainz will go back there, although apparently there has been some provisional interest from McLaren (who are debating getting a new driver in next year regardless of Alonso's status, so Sainz would either replace him or replace Vandoorne and drive alongside Alonso in a double-Spanish driver line-up) and Williams (who might lose Stroll to New Force India).

I think the general feeling is that Sainz isn't quite Grade-A superstar material, but he's a very good second-tier driver and it'd be a shame to lose him (especially when considerably less talented drivers like Hartley, Sirotkin and Ericsson are trundling around), and he gives great engineering feedback, so they'll try to keep him in the sport somehow.

He really would work as a super strong second driver. Out of the ones you mentioned Toro rossa is probably his best bet. Always leaves him in the wings for red bull should either of the current two leave. McLaren seems like purgatory and a bad deal for Spanish fans.

Interesting the rumour daddy stroll might buy force India.

[Werthead]

Sergio Perez has issued a statement clarifying WTF is going on at Force India.

Another creditor was going to issue a wind-up notification to the company which would have basically seen the company shut down, 400 people fired and the assets sold off immediately. Force India would have ceased to exist, ending a 27-year lineage for the team (which started as Jordan Racing in 1991, became Midland in 2005, Spyker in 2006 and Force India in 2008), which would have been a shame). No-one wanted to see that happen, so Force India themselves suggested that Perez's lawyers put an administration order on the team instead, which means the team can continue operating whilst a new buyer is found. With 3 buyers in the wings - 2 American (presumably including Lawrence Stroll's consortium; he's Canadian but he has numerous American business interests) and 1 Russian - that's pretty much a formality at this stage.

The only reason this wasn't sorted out earlier is because Mallya didn't want to sell at the price on offer. He probably has a point in that Force India are a very successful team, having come in 4th in the championship for two years in a row, and the money that was on offer was probably low because the buyers know of his financial troubles and that he might have to sell in a hurry, but with the team about to collapse altogether they had to force the issue (there also doesn't seem to be much sympathy for Mallya who got himself into this mess with his other ventures such as airlines).

So basically Perez saved the team (along with Mercedes, who put in a second administration request which helped back up Perez's claim) rather than helped bring it down.

[Werthead]

The Force India situation is now even more complicated, with Renault, Williams and McLaren unhappy about some aspects of the proposed sale. Good lord.

[Loge]

Ricciardo has signed a contract with Renault. Not exactly what everybody expected. 

Will be interesting to see what happens with Force India. Like Williams, they have benefitted from the superiority of the Mercedes engines over the last couple of years. Without that advantage they will have a hard time. Mercedes have denied that they want to turn them into their B team, but that would probably the best solution for the team. I wonder how much longer Williams can survive. With the loss of their sponsor at the end of the season the situation looks grim.

[red snow]

I can only imagine red bull refused to pay ricciardo the same as max and that forced him to go to a better paying team in Renault. Renault is probably the best of the rest with the genuine potential to improve but it seems a massive gamble. Hopefully it pays off in the way it did for Hamilton (with a season of moderate pain then success) and not an Alonso type of gamble.

I'd like to see sainz get a shot in the red bull seat but I think he may slot back into Tori rosso while Gasly gets a try out with red bull.

It stirs things up at least but does feel a bit like most teams now have a clear no.1 driver. So have to hope the constructors remain competitive.

[polishgenius]

On 7/31/2018 at 10:48 PM, Werthead said:

The Force India situation is now even more complicated, with Renault, Williams and McLaren unhappy about some aspects of the proposed sale. Good lord.

Red Bull complaining about someone else having a B-team is quite funny.

[Werthead]

Yeah, Ricciardo almost certainly asked for pay parity with Verstappen and didn't get it (Dr. Marko clearly favours Max over Daniel). I suspect Horner would have given him parity, but the higher-ups wouldn't countenance it, not with Verstappen on more money than Alonso. With Daniel having out-driven Max in their three seasons together (first one was only a half-season though), that's a massive slap in the face and I suspect he felt he had no choice but to go elsewhere.

Marko isn't a fan of Sainz either, but I can't see him being too happy at going back to Toro Rosso, so he'll likely go to McLaren once the options there become clearer (although there's still a chance both Alonso and Vandoorne will stay, apparently). Gasly into the Red Bull seems likely at this point. Hartley might just keep his F1 seat by virtue of Red Bull having run out of drivers. The Japanese options for next year (which Honda have been keen on) won't have their superlicences until the following year at the earliest. Toro Rosso may have to make another bid for a Lando Norris loan.

Good job on Daniel for not accepting second-best and for believing in himself. This may end up being a really inspired (or insipid) move. It's also made the driver market much more interesting.

That does leave a question mark over Ocon. If Lawrence Stroll is going to buy out Force India, keep Perez (who saved the day for him) and move Lance over from Willians, Ocon will either have to leave the sport or move over to Williams. Ah, maybe Red Bull would get on loan for Toro Rosso?

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

Red Bull complaining about someone else having a B-team is quite funny.

They didn't. They approved the Force India buy-out in the vote. Renault, Williams and McLaren are the ones who objected (and there seems to be an understanding this is a temporary objection which they'll drop shortly).