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Size in miles, and population of the North


Leonardo

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I'm running a Diplomacy and Statecraft game and trying to gauge perspectives on the numbers I have worked up. It's pre conquest(300-500 years before, we're playing with the timeline) Westeros and the North are just now recovering from a long winter; my totaled population numbers of named houses are at about 3.4 million roughly, with another million or so belonging to more minor, scattered houses like Widow's Watch and around Cape Kraken, the Hornwood. This feels appropriate to the time period and the men Torrhen Stark brought South with him. The Night's Watch is still pretty strong at this point, with thousands of fighting men, and thousands more stewards and the like.

 

I was also wondering if anyone had ideas as to how many square miles/kms are in relative parts of the North, in case someone made a decision to offer up parceled acres to attract citizens, and to approximate crow harvests for trade and such, as well as incomes in GDs for various houses annually. I have numbers for all these and the game is moving forward, but some differing perspectives would help. I have White Harbor pulling in 800,000 GD a year and that seems waaay high now, and it's not too late to balance the incomes relatively to more managable numbers for my brain 0.×

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From the headwaters of Fever to MC is 20 miles. 

The wall is a hundred league so gift will roughly have the same distance, east to west.

Neck takes at least 12 days to cross for Robert's  royal party.

Wolfswood's edge to Wintertown is 2 miles.

From Barrowlands to Castle Black it takes less than 2 months for Sam's party. Could be even less than a month,  no clear information. 

Barrow Hall to Goldrass is less than a mile.

Cerwyn's castle to Winterfell is less than a day's ride.

Deepwood Motte to Winterfell is 300 miles as the Raven flies and a march of a hundred league. It is supposed to take fifteen days and they cover 46 miles in the first two days. A smaller party would be faster.

Wolfswood starts three days ride of north from Winterfell. After another two days, mountains are seen to the west.

Kingsroad runs for 100 leagues on Umber lands' westernmarches.

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I believe there is an SSM somewhere that has Martin saying Westeros is roughly the size of South America. So the north would be roughly equivalent to Argentine, Chile, Uruguay and Paraguay, with maybe a little of southern Brazin thrown in for good measure.

Population is highly speculative, but I've heard anywhere from 500k to 1m in total.

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Rodrik is gone for 8-9 days When Theon attacks Winterfell. Assuming he gathered some levies for 1-2 days, it must have taken Theon and his men 9-11 days to travel to Winterfell after they split from Cleftjaws group attacking Torrhen's square. Not sure if it is on horse or foot.

Ramsay's search party was 16 days gone when they returned to Barrowton. So they covered 8 days distance from Barrowton.

Umber lands extend as far south as Lonely hills, so it is 15 days of march at an army's pace. From the map, Wolfswood, Mountains and Lonely hills seem roughly on the same latitude(2 days of ride with a party of 8 including boys and a dwarf between the first two) so you can work a guess for the travel distance between WF and Gift

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Areas ruled by Karlstarks should have population at least 300.000 people (estimated population of Finland year 1500). Reason for that is lord Rickard came to WF with as many infantry  and cavalry men that were available to king of Sweden in Finland year 1500 .

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1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said:

Areas ruled by Karlstarks should have population at least 300.000 people (estimated population of Finland year 1500). Reason for that is lord Rickard came to WF with as many infantry  and cavalry men that were available to king of Sweden in Finland year 1500 .

That's exactly what I have for them. Manderlys top the list at 650,000.

 

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=293654.0

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One thing; Barrowlands has a prestige of 5 While Rills has 7 and Dustins are claimed to be a relatively new house. Dustins have ruled that land since Starks have taken it from Barrow Kings who are kin to Dustins and it was the only major settlement until WH. Ryswells are a younger house compared to them, Rills were ruled by house Ryder before them, who were kings vassalized by Starks. Mormonts are an even younger house.

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Very good points, I'll have to make sure and edit those! :)

 

I did a good portion of working this out before the release of AWOIAF and it was originally due to be set in the Age of Heroes or thereabouts, however the book really made everything clash...

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Robert has indebted the crown 6 million in 14-15 years.

Reach (Tyrells) has given 1 million of that so they have spared near 70k a year. 

Also one important thing, the overlord of a region will not always be the richest, as I've seen some people assume.

Say Starks gain 20 units of riches from their direct lands and they tax their vassals %5. Let's say Manderlys gain 100 units of riches and the rest of the bannermen together gain 500. Starks have 50 units from taxes and their lands whereas manderlys will have 95 after the tax. 

So Randyll when saying Hightowers are as wealthy as Lannisters can be right despite the fact Tyrells come nowhere near that.

Also some figures I recall; Dunk's armor which included a plain but good breastplate costed near 4GD.

Salladhor's Fleet of 30 galleys(IIRC) with crew costs 30000 a month to hire.

300 GD is good ransom for a noble knight(And heir) and 100 GD for a younger son(in a family with scores of sons and grandsons)

Tysha is given a silver stag for each guard, which is too much.

Redgrass Jenny was charging a penny.

A dowry of bride's weight in silver can be considered a very, very generous one that will be given  by a father who is not just very rich, but also near desperate to marry off some daughters.

a good linden or pine shield sold for some pennies is cheap.

Actually, you may check the military strengths in my sigil. In the first post there's a link to a site that gives prices for many items in medieval times.

How many horsemen, especially  heavy horsemen such as a knight, a lord has is also some indication of a lord's wealth and therefore income. This should especially help to compare wealth of lords; If two lords have the same amount of troops, one with more heavy horse is most likely the richer one whereas if two lords have the same amount of horse, one with fewer troops will have higher income for the same amount of land, regardless of him being richer or not.

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