Wow, I never noticed that v.17

[Seams]

9 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 Hoster Tully was a restless man in his prime, always travelling and taking Cat, who was his heir for many years, with him also.

But apparently not his unwed brother since he isn't mentioned as a part of these travels. So the Blackfish must have stayed home then. Same also applies forMinisa Whent, who gave her cheekbones to Catelyn according to Blackfish, who remembers her very well.

Curiosly, Hoster has brown hair

Whereas Tullys are known for their Auburn, including Blackfish

He has also been more of a father to the Tully children than Hoster was

Conclusion, Tullies are Blackfishes bastards with Minisa Whent. Blackfish didn't marry because the woman he loved was married with his brother.

Nice catch! I suspected there was a secret love in the past for Blackfish, but never put this together. Intriguing.

[Corvo the Crow]

Valhalla comes from Valr + Holl

Valr means dead/fallen warriors 

Valkyrie is Valkyrja, Valr + Kjosa

Kjosa is to choose

 Valkyrie is chooser of the fallen. Female attendants of Odin guiding the fallen to Valhalla

A Valkyrie is also a large, strong, courageous or agressive woman.

Val, thought of as a warrior princess by Jon, is all of the above except large.

Tormund is mead king of Ruddy(Red) Hall

Odin is also a gos of lightning ans thunder among other things and is often accompanied by  his wolf and crow companions.

One of Tormund's many titles is thunderfist and by his own admission he's fond of wargs. He is also called a crowlover by Harma dogshead.

 I've always wondered why Tormund liked Val so much. Now I have an answer I think.

 

Oh and Val leads Tormund and his followers to the Wall so in a sense she has led the ones that later came back for Jon's ranging to... shieldhall. Shield hall is the place where knightly brothers leave their shields to be hung when they say their oaths but their shields are taken down when they die. So, the Shieldhall of NW is not a hall of the fallen warriors, but one for the living ones. 

Val has led them to hall of the living. 

And oh, now that I looked at it again, ruddy, apart from red, also means a healthy red color if used for a person's face. 

Tormund is king of healthy, therefore living, people and Val guides the living to there.

[Kandrax]

Interesting thing that i noticed about Even numbered books is that firsts and lasts chapters have common element.

In Acok prologue a measter dies, and in last chapter maester also dies

Feast begins and ends in Oldtown.

[Corvo the Crow]

I just noticed how similar harry the heir and hairy (the) bear sounds like.

Though no honey in her hair, sansa is a maiden fair. Unlike the hairy bear, Harry the hair is a knight, not covered in heir and yellow instead of black and brown.

Sansa and Harry also meet in a fair(well, tourney) and there's also a dance there.

The bear gets the maiden fair, so I believe Harry, the opposite of the bear, won't get Sansa.

[Corvo the Crow]

After posting the above, I just noticed how important dances are;  

Sansa's dance with Harry, Ashara's dances, Jon refusing to dance with Alys, Alys Dancing with Jon, Waymar's dance with an other, Jon's dance with an-other (snow flake).

There are many dances, we just need to find  what their hidden meaning is, but I think one pattern is that dancers tend to die by the sword, especially if their dancing partner is a maiden fair. But of course this theory has some holes that need help or it just needs to be torn down entirely.

Anyway;

Ashara danced with Oberyn, Jon Con, a reluctant Ned and a KG I think it was Arthur because of white sword.

Oberyn died by the sword(sort of), Jon Con was thought to be dead and wants to die by the sword and Arthur also died by the sword. These three either willingly died or want to die by the sword. Ned was reluctant to dance, so he died unwilling.

Robb danced with Alys and was courteous, so he was willing and died. He also danced with Dacey who is also fair to look upon.

Jon danced with Alys, but he was sullen so I assume unwilling. He refused her a second dance.

 

What are you guys ideas on this?

Two other things I noticed

Dacey is both a bear likely with brown/black hair(Jorah's coloring) and a maiden fair.

The four dancing maids I've listed are all tall-ish or have long legs.

Dacey is tall and lanky

Ashara is tall

Alys has long legs (as befits a stark)

Sansa is tall; Cat was tall and Sansa was already taller than her aunt.

some other dance(r)s I can think of

Dancer, Bran's horse, Masseys whose seat is Stone Dance, especially Justin, who likes women, Damon-Dance-For-Me.

[Tucu]

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

After posting the above, I just noticed how important dances are;  

Sansa's dance with Harry, Ashara's dances, Jon refusing to dance with Alys, Alys Dancing with Jon, Waymar's dance with an other, Jon's dance with an-other (snow flake).

There are many dances, we just need to find  what their hidden meaning is, but I think one pattern is that dancers tend to die by the sword, especially if their dancing partner is a maiden fair. But of course this theory has some holes that need help or it just needs to be torn down entirely.

Anyway;

Ashara danced with Oberyn, Jon Con, a reluctant Ned and a KG I think it was Arthur because of white sword.

Oberyn died by the sword(sort of), Jon Con was thought to be dead and wants to die by the sword and Arthur also died by the sword. These three either willingly died or want to die by the sword. Ned was reluctant to dance, so he died unwilling.

Robb danced with Alys and was courteous, so he was willing and died. He also danced with Dacey who is also fair to look upon.

Jon danced with Alys, but he was sullen so I assume unwilling. He refused her a second dance.

 

What are you guys ideas on this?

Two other things I noticed

Dacey is both a bear likely with brown/black hair(Jorah's coloring) and a maiden fair.

The four dancing maids I've listed are all tall-ish or have long legs.

Dacey is tall and lanky

Ashara is tall

Alys has long legs (as befits a stark)

Sansa is tall; Cat was tall and Sansa was already taller than her aunt.

some other dance(r)s I can think of

Dancer, Bran's horse, Masseys whose seat is Stone Dance, especially Justin, who likes women, Damon-Dance-For-Me.

We have the shadows dancing in Mirri's tent and Patchface's rhyme about dancing shadows. You already mentioned the white shadows dancing with Waymar.

Quote

"Only shadows," Ser Jorah husked, but Dany could hear the doubt in his voice. "I saw, maegi. I saw you, alone, dancing with the shadows."

Quote

 "The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," he sang, hopping from one foot to the other and back again. "The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord."

 

[Corvo the Crow]

On LF

Quote

Lord Petyr sauntered into the solar as if nothing had gone amiss that morning. He wore a slashed velvet doublet in cream-and-silver, a grey silk cloak trimmed with black fox, and his customary mocking smile.

In addition to this, he wears a silver mocking bird badge/clasp.

A mocking bird is a bird mimicking other birds.

I am on phone and it's a real pain to post several quotes but Ned wears furs and leathers, white velvet, grey and white cloak with black wool.

notice the coloring; LF is mimicking Eddard.

There's also this; Northern Mockingbird, the most commonly found MB in N. America, is known for it's intelligence and colored gray on it's upper parts and white or whitish gray on it's lower parts.

LF is a northern mockingbird! Trying to "mock" the Starks.

[Seams]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

After posting the above, I just noticed how important dances are;  

...

There are many dances, we just need to find  what their hidden meaning is,

...

some other dance(r)s I can think of

Dancer, Bran's horse, Masseys whose seat is Stone Dance, especially Justin, who likes women, Damon-Dance-For-Me.

I think there is wordplay on "dances" and "ascend". If the metaphor of the game "chutes and ladders" (snakes and ladders in some countries) is applicable to the Game of Thrones, people who ascend are engaged in playing the game. Of course, this would be entirely consistent with the title "A Dance with Dragons," as dragonriders ascend when they ride their giant serpents.

At the harvest dance at Winterfell on the night that Jojen and Meera arrive, Hodor is initially the only person dancing. Bran thinks about the fact that he will never be able to dance. He arrives on his horse, Dancer, but leaves the feast carried on Hodor's back.

There is an important flashback where Brienne dances with Renly Baratheon and he treats her courteously and she falls in love with him. At her wedding, Sansa dances with Garlan Tyrell, who has worn Renly's armor and "became" Renly at the Battle of the Blackwater.

I don't see a strong link to death by sword - many people die by the sword who are not engaged in dancing beforehand. But you may be right.

[Seams]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

On LF

In addition to this, he wears a silver mocking bird badge/clasp.

A mocking bird is a bird mimicking other birds.

I am on phone and it's a real pain to post several quotes but Ned wears furs and leathers, white velvet, grey and white cloak with black wool.

notice the coloring; LF is mimicking Eddard.

There's also this; Northern Mockingbird, the most commonly found MB in N. America, is known for it's intelligence and colored gray on it's upper parts and white or whitish gray on it's lower parts.

LF is a northern mockingbird! Trying to "mock" the Starks.

Very nice catch!

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, Seams said:

the harvest dance at Winterfell on the night that Jojen and Meera arrive, Hodor is initially the only person dancing. Bran thinks about the fact that he will never be able to dance. He arrives on his horse, Dancer, but leaves the feast carried on Hodor's back.

Could it be becauae Bran's former survival from both the fall and the catspaw? He arrives with dancer; he was supposed to die but he left on Hodor'a back, he survived, turned bacj feom dead.

Also ascend/ a dance with dragons is a nice spot. I think it may apply to any other dance and death; when you die you ascend to the heavens.

Going by your ascend/ a dance idea and Bran, Bran will never be able to dance so he'll never be able to ascend. He'll never die, he'll live on in the birds and other animals like the  greenseers of old he saw in the caves.

4 hours ago, Seams said:

 There is an important flashback where Brienne dances with Renly Baratheon and he treats her courteously and she falls in love with him. At her wedding, Sansa dances with Garlan Tyrell, who has worn Renly's armor and "became" Renly at the Battle of the Blackwater.

 

Brienne is a maid and a "beauty" and Jaime actually has started to see her inner beauty.

Could it be Renly died a second time with Garlan dancing Sansa?

 

Irrelevant to this post but just today I read Garlan's name is coming from Garland and it's meaning is someone who owns a triangular shaped land. Garlan got the Florent lands, lands situated between the headwaters of honeywine and guess what, it's in a very crude triangular shape.

Returning to dances, going by Bran's example, could it be Jon refusing to dance with Alys again means he will refuse to die?

He danced with Alys once and he "died" as once you join the watch all your old loyalties die and you get a new family, you are reborn. Jon danced, died and  reborn as a crow but he refuses to dance/die again. He also refuses, wisely, the offer of lemonwater so he is for the foreseable future, safe.

[Corvo the Crow]

Next up on Stark wannabes; Roose and the Boltons.

@The Fattest Leech I have a feeling you'll like this one.

We all know of Boltons of old wearing the skins of Starks and we know wearing another's skin, makes you become that person/animal such as with the skinchangers, so I'll jump straight to Roose.

This isn't much by itself but it'a fuel enough for some more thought and research.

Miller's Wife

Quote

. I was hunting a fox along the Weeping Water when I chanced upon a mill and saw a young woman washing clothes in the stream. The old miller had gotten himself a new young wife, a girl not half his age. She was a tall, willowy creature, very healthy-looking. Long legs and small firm breasts, like two ripe plums. Pretty, in a common sort of way. The moment that I set eyes on her I wanted her. Such was my due.

 

Alys Karstark who looks just like your average Stark

Quote

She looked enough like Arya to give him pause, but only for a moment. A tall, skinny, coltish girl, all legs and elbows, her brown hair was woven in a thick braid and bound about with strips of leather. She had a longface, a pointy chin, small ears.

...

That was when the girl sat up, clutching the cloak to her small, pale breasts. She looked confused. "Where …?"

 

We never get to know anything about the facial features of Ramsay's mother, but... Roose's eyes are almost colorless whereas Ramsay's are dirty ice, which makes me think more of the grey eyes we see with many characters ,including Starks, than Roose's eyes.

Just like LF, who especially wanted to be the Ned, Boltons want to be Starks and Roose is no exception. 

Oh and a small bonus:

Dacey Mormont

Quote

Lady Maege's eldest daughter was quite pretty; tall and willowy, with a shy smile that made her long face light up. It

We have our fair share of long-legged characters to be sure, but very few characters have both long legs and a long face and most of them are either of Stark blood for certain(Starks and Karstarks) or are hinted at it(Wayns with the horse face and a former Waynwood marrying a stark granddaughter.)

[Corvo the Crow]

This one really made me "wow!"

weirwoods come in a variety of shapes, facial features and expressions so here's the one that struck me

Quote

At the center of the grove an ancient weirwood brooded over a small pool where the waters were black and cold. "The heart tree," Ned called it. The weirwood's bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself. They had seen Brandon the Builder set the first stone, if the tales were true; they had watched the castle's granite walls rise around them.

A face long and melancholy, like a Stark.

[Tucu]

5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

This one really made me "wow!"

weirwoods come in a variety of shapes, facial features and expressions so here's the one that struck me

A face long and melancholy, like a Stark.

There have been a few discussions over the years about the weirwood faces taking the shape of the person sacrificed to awaken the tree. In the case of the Winterfell tree it probably was the Brandon Stark in Bran's last vision.

We see another instance of this in the hundreths or thousands of faces in the CoTF cave in Arianne's chapter (which I think points towards a massive sacrifice of CoTF for the Hammer of the Waters)

[Corvo the Crow]

Not that it means anything but Gylbert Farwynd is described by Aeron as a "tall spare lord with a melancholy visage and a lantern jaw" and he has eyes changing color between blue and grey"

The word melancholy takes place only 12 times in the series and though there are several melancholy characters, Starks are the most associated with it as it's not just the individuals, it is the house.

Anyway,I'm sure most of you will remember the crazy Stark guy Brandon sailing his fleet to sunset sea. Guess what Gylbert does in kingsmoot? He offers to lead the Ironborn to the lands across the sunset sea. 

 

Though I don't propose all the Farwynds are coming from Starks, but Gylbert Farwynd is most likely a descendant of Brandon the shipwright. Perhaps he comes from Brandon and a female line of Farwynds.

[Corvo the Crow]

12 minutes ago, Tucu said:

There have been a few discussions over the years about the weirwood faces taking the shape of the person sacrificed to awaken the tree. In the case of the Winterfell tree it probably was the Brandon Stark in Bran's last vision.

We see another instance of this in the hundreths or thousands of faces in the CoTF cave in Arianne's chapter (which I think points towards a massive sacrifice of CoTF for the Hammer of the Waters)

Wow, really? Thanks! I have never seen those discussions I believe so I would appreciate to be pointed towards those. Would especially love to read more on Brandon being sacrificed.

[Tucu]

14 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Wow, really? Thanks! I have never seen those discussions I believe so I would appreciate to be pointed towards those. Would especially love to read more on Brandon being sacrificed.

I think that the first time I saw this mentioned was in one of the Heresy threads:

It is a long discussion that jumps to weird places, but some parts are good reads.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Not that it means anything but Gylbert Farwynd is described by Aeron as a "tall spare lord with a melancholy visage and a lantern jaw" and he has eyes changing color between blue and grey"

The word melancholy takes place only 12 times in the series and though there are several melancholy characters, Starks are the most associated with it as it's not just the individuals, it is the house.

Anyway,I'm sure most of you will remember the crazy Stark guy Brandon sailing his fleet to sunset sea. Guess what Gylbert does in kingsmoot? He offers to lead the Ironborn to the lands across the sunset sea. 

 

Though I don't propose all the Farwynds are coming from Starks, but Gylbert Farwynd is most likely a descendant of Brandon the shipwright. Perhaps he comes from Brandon and a female line of Farwynds.

I should have used quotes, I forgot an important bit; Farwynds of the Lonely Light reputedly are able to skinchange into some animals, among these animals are listed the spotted whales, "wolves of the sea".

Quote

A Feast for Crows - The Drowned Man

This would-be king was a tall spare lord with a melancholy visage, his lantern jaw shaved clean. His three champions took up their position two steps below him, bearing his sword and shield and banner. They shared a certain look with the tall lord, and Aeron took them for his sons. One unfurled his banner, a great black longship against a setting sun. "I am Gylbert Farwynd, Lord of the Lonely Light," the lord told the kingsmoot.

Aeron knew some Farwynds, a queer folk who held lands on the westernmost shores of Great Wyk and the scattered isles beyond, rocks so small that most could support but a single household. Of those, the Lonely Light was the most distant, eight days' sail to the northwest amongst rookeries of seals and sea lions and the boundless grey oceans. The Farwynds there were even queerer than the rest. Some said they were skinchangers, unholy creatures who could take on the forms of sea lions, walruses, even spotted whales, the wolvesof the wild sea.

Lord Gylbert began to speak. He told of a wondrous land beyond the Sunset Sea, a land without winter or want, where death had no dominion. "Make me your king, and I shall lead you there," he cried. "We will build ten thousand ships as Nymeria once did and take sail with all our people to the land beyond the sunset. There every man shall be a king and every wife a queen."

His eyes, Aeron saw, were now grey, now blue, as changeable as the seas. Mad eyes, he thought, fool's eyes. The vision he spoke of was doubtless a snare set by the Storm God to lure the ironborn to destruction. The offerings that his men spilled out before the kingsmoot included sealskins and walrus tusks, arm rings made of whalebone, warhorns banded in bronze. The captains looked and turned away, leaving lesser men to help themselves to the gifts. When the fool was done talking and his champions began to shout his name, only the Farwynds took up the cry, and not even all of them. Soon enough the cries of "Gylbert! Gylbert King!" faded away to silence. The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop one of Nagga's ribs as the Lord of the Lonely Light made his way back down the hill.

 

So a tall spare, lantern jawed and grey eyed(sometimes blue) melancholy lord who comes from a house(his branch) that reputedly wargs into wolves (of the sea) wants to build a fleet and cross the sea.

A lantern jaw is a long thin jaw with a prominent chin. Could it be like Alys', a pointy chin on a long face?

and this is Brandon shipwright

Quote

That's a Brandon, the tall one with the dreamy face, he was Brandon the Shipwright, because he loved the sea. His tomb is empty. He tried to sail west across the Sunset Sea and was never seen again. 

He is tall with a dreamy face and not much else is told but no reason to believe he doesn't carry the other Stark features of long face, grey eyes, likely a pointy chin...

 

Gylbert is certainly a descendant of Brandon Shipwright.

 

 

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Next up on Stark wannabes; Roose and the Boltons.

@The Fattest Leech I have a feeling you'll like this one.

We all know of Boltons of old wearing the skins of Starks and we know wearing another's skin, makes you become that person/animal such as with the skinchangers, so I'll jump straight to Roose.

This isn't much by itself but it'a fuel enough for some more thought and research.

Miller's Wife

 

Alys Karstark who looks just like your average Stark

 

We never get to know anything about the facial features of Ramsay's mother, but... Roose's eyes are almost colorless whereas Ramsay's are dirty ice, which makes me think more of the grey eyes we see with many characters ,including Starks, than Roose's eyes.

Just like LF, who especially wanted to be the Ned, Boltons want to be Starks and Roose is no exception. 

Oh and a small bonus:

Dacey Mormont

We have our fair share of long-legged characters to be sure, but very few characters have both long legs and a long face and most of them are either of Stark blood for certain(Starks and Karstarks) or are hinted at it(Wayns with the horse face and a former Waynwood marrying a stark granddaughter.)

Heck YEAH! The history of the north, Starks, and Bolton's goes way, way back and there has always been enmity between the two... which we are getting a repeat of in the current story. The Red Kings, the wearing of skins, the "royal" ruby vs the "bastard" garnet, and sooooo much more (that I have been working on elsewhere).

By the way, have you ever read The Skin Trade? This also gives a bit a lot of insight to what ends the author is working towards.

Thanks for thinking of me

[Seams]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

A lantern jaw is a long thin jaw with a prominent chin. Could it be like Alys', a pointy chin on a long face?

Lanterns are also associated with the Crone, who lights the way to wisdom. (She also peers through the door between life and death.)

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Has the screaming gull at the kingsmoot ever been brought up? (The Drowned Man, AFFC 19)

The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop Nagga's ribs as the Lord of t he Lonely Light made his way back down the hill.

The gull cried once more, a raucous scream, forlorn. "Make your claim, Victarion," the Merlyn called. "Let us have done with this mummer's farce."

Euron Greyjoy climbed the hill slowly, with every eye upon him. Above the gull screamed and screamed again. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair, Aeron thought, but he knew that he must let his brother speak. His lips moved silently in prayer.