Wow, I never noticed that v.17

[Seams]

1 hour ago, Widow's Watch said:

Has the screaming gull at the kingsmoot ever been brought up? (The Drowned Man, AFFC 19)

The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop Nagga's ribs as the Lord of t he Lonely Light made his way back down the hill.

The gull cried once more, a raucous scream, forlorn. "Make your claim, Victarion," the Merlyn called. "Let us have done with this mummer's farce."

Euron Greyjoy climbed the hill slowly, with every eye upon him. Above the gull screamed and screamed again. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair, Aeron thought, but he knew that he must let his brother speak. His lips moved silently in prayer.

Yes.

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Correct me if I am wrong but there is no text about someone making a statue of Robb beneath the Winterfell crypts. 

I find this interesting. 

Obviously the Boltons are not going to actually make one. Yet it is odd that there is not even a comment made by someone about it. There could be a mocking comment from a Frey, Jon thinking about it after he finds out about the RW, or something else. 

Nothing major here, just something I've never noticed or thought about before.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

8 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Correct me if I am wrong but there is no text about someone making a statue of Robb beneath the Winterfell crypts. 

There isn't. But by the time Robb dies, Winterfell has been sacked and its people dead or dispersed. 

I think it will be mentioned once Winterfell has been taken back. It's possible that Robb will never come to rest at Winterfell, though, which I find pretty sad.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

There isn't. But by the time Robb dies, Winterfell has been sacked and its people dead or dispersed. 

Of course.

My post wasn't speaking to someone actually building one, just that there aren't any comments made about it.

I find it surprising that George hasn't had anyone say or think about it. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 7/16/2018 at 5:30 PM, Widow's Watch said:

Has the screaming gull at the kingsmoot ever been brought up? (The Drowned Man, AFFC 19)

The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop Nagga's ribs as the Lord of t he Lonely Light made his way back down the hill.

The gull cried once more, a raucous scream, forlorn. "Make your claim, Victarion," the Merlyn called. "Let us have done with this mummer's farce."

Euron Greyjoy climbed the hill slowly, with every eye upon him. Above the gull screamed and screamed again. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair, Aeron thought, but he knew that he must let his brother speak. His lips moved silently in prayer.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/151167-the-seagul-at-the-kingsmoot/&tab=comments#comment-8186414

[Corvo the Crow]

I just ran into this

 

Quote

Tom overheard him, and broke off his song. "You're a young fool, Archer. If we go to Riverrun it will only be to collect her ransom, won't be no time for you to sit about making bows. Be thankful if you get out with your hide. Lord Hoster was hanging outlaws before you were shaving. And that son of his . . . a man who hates music can't be trusted, I always say."

And started to wonder who appreciates songs and music?

 

Two lords that I can think of who appreciates music

Tywin

Quote

The singers had even made a rather gloomy song of it. Some years later, when Lord Farman of Faircastle grew truculent, Lord Tywin sent an envoy bearing a lute instead of a letter. But once he'd heard "The Rains of Castamere" echoing through his hall, Lord Farman gave no further trouble

 

Walder

Quote

Was there ever a wedding less joyful? she wondered, until she remembered her poor Sansa and her marriage to the Imp. Mother take mercy on her. She has a gentle soul. The heat and smoke and noise were making her sick. The musicians in the gallery might be numerous and loud, but they were not especially gifted.

 

We all know how much Sansa loves songs, though I can't find the quote she informa queen on Ned's plans, here's some music appreciation

Quote

Sansa had wept too, the first day. Even within the stout walls of Maegor's Holdfast, with her door closed and barred, it was hard not to be terrified when the killing began. She had grown up to the sound of steel in the yard, and scarcely a day of her life had passed without hearing the clash of sword on sword, yet somehow knowing that the fighting was real made all the difference in the world. She heard it as she had never heard it before, and there were other sounds as well, grunts of pain, angry curses, shouts for help, and the moans of wounded and dying men. In the songs, the knights never screamed nor begged for mercy.

 

Who else is there that likes music?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

But there's a reason Edmure "hates" music and that's Tom's fault and the floppy trout song he made.

[Seams]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I just ... started to wonder who appreciates songs and music?

Who else is there that likes music?

You're starting to get at a topic that probably deserves its own thread. That is the relationship between music and history. GRRM makes a compelling case that history is written by the victors - the versions of events that are passed down to future generations tell a lopsided version of the story because you don't read the loser's point of view, or the smallfolks' point of view.

Singers are part of that (his)story-making process because they write songs about people perceived to be heroes. Sometimes they also poke fun at people who are in power and we have seen them pay the price for this - Symon Silver Tongue, the singer Joffrey condemns for his song about the boar killing Robert, Marillion being forced to sing Littlefinger's "song," the Blue Bard being tortured by Qyburn and Cersei. I think singers in the books write the "first draft" of the history that will be passed down, so powerful people try to control singers and manipulate the way that events will be recorded.

Singers and fools are pretty closely related. My guess is that GRRM uses his fool characters to convey hints to readers that characters in the books are supposed to miss. Characters all think fools are harmless entertainers who speak nonsense. We look to fools for cryptic clues about what is really going on or what might happen in the future.

As you note, Tywin actually uses singers and their songs to convey threats of violence. Ned never invites singers to Winterfell. (At the Harvest Feast where Bran presides, the singer is brought in by Lord Manderly, the "outsider" noble who is considered to be not really from the North.) The Queen of Thorns (Olenna) uses singing as a cover to hide treasonous conversation with Sansa about Joffrey's nasty personality. Cersei carefully selects seven singers to perform at Joffrey's wedding feast and offers a huge prize for the best song. Tyrion wears a shadowcat cloak that he won from a singer (Marillion) in a dice game, so the message may be that Tyrion can "skinchange" into a singer's skin. As she begins her quest in the Riverlands, Brienne meets a character named Ser Creighton Longbough who claims that the singers sing about his amazing fighting at the Battle of the Blackwater but he is an impoverished somewhat middle-aged, paunchy hedgeknight and Brienne has never heard of him. What does he symbolize that GRRM would want us to see him as someone celebrated in song? Characters such as Rhaegar and Mance play the wood harp: how do they fit in with the role of singers?

[Corvo the Crow]

15 hours ago, Seams said:

You're starting to get at a topic that probably deserves its own thread. That is the relationship between music and history.

I'd love to read it if there ever is a comprehensive one as it can also give us more idea on the background of the world, especially older, long forgotten events.

Songs actually served a similar purpose in our own world, "coomon born" and nomads and such others who had no means to pass down the knowledge through writing did so through oral tradition and just as it was in ASOIAF, it changed over time, with new elements added, some others removed, some retained but altered.

[Corvo the Crow]

 

Is there a second RW in horizon?

Quote

 

"And Walder Rivers," Daven said, "that whoreson. Hates that he's a bastard, and hates everyone who's not. Ser Perwyn seems a decent fellow, though, might as well spare him. The women too. I'm to marry one, I hear. Your father might have seen fit to consult with me about this marriage, by the bye. My own father was treating with Paxter Redwyne before Oxcross, did you know? Redwyne has a nicely dowered daughter . . ."

"Desmera?" Jaime laughed. "How well do you like freckles?"

"If my choice is Freys or freckles, well . . . half of Lord Walder's brood look like stoats."

 

[Seams]

What is the Tully / Blackwood connection?

The late Lord Tully was named Hoster and Jaime's Blackwood hostage is named Hoster.

The younger brother of Hoster Tully is Brynden Tully, known as The Blackfish. The famous bastard of House Blackwood is Brynden Rivers, known as Bloodraven.

[The Fattest Leech]

Just noticed this yesterday as I was listening to ASOS while cruising the strip for leeches...

Barri goes to Dany under squishy-false pretenses so that he can judge her personality in order to decide if he will support her or not... just as the Flint and Norrey mountain clans do to Jon in ADWD as they walk along the wall and they interrogate Jon to all the hells and back until they are satisfied with Jon's answer. 

This shows another similar, yet different, detail in each other's arc. Dany is judged to be not like her mad king father, while Jon is judged to be like his Ice wielding (adoptive) father, Eddard (*this Jon section is long, so I only posted the main point).

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI

"Why ask for truth," Ser Barristan said softly, "if you close your ears to it?" He hesitated, then continued. "I told you before that I used a false name so the Lannisters would not know that I'd joined you. That was less than half of it, Your Grace. The truth is, I wanted to watch you for a time before pledging you my sword. To make certain that you were not . . ."

". . . my father's daughter?" If she was not her father's daughter, who was she?

". . . mad," he finished.

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

The northmen glanced at one another. "Hostages," mused The Norrey. "Tormund has agreed to this?"

It was that, or watch his people die. "My blood price, he called it," said Jon Snow, "but he will pay."

"Aye, and why not?" Old Flint stomped his cane against the ice. "Wards, we always called them, when Winterfell demanded boys of us, but they were hostages, and none the worse for it."

"None but them whose sires displeased the Kings o' Winter," said The Norrey. "Those came home shorter by a head. So you tell me, boy … if these wildling friends o' yours prove false, do you have the belly to do what needs be done?"

Ask Janos Slynt. "Tormund Giantsbane knows better than to try me. I may seem a green boy in your eyes, Lord Norrey, but I am still a son of Eddard Stark."

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

What is the Tully / Blackwood connection?

The late Lord Tully was named Hoster and Jaime's Blackwood hostage is named Hoster.

The younger brother of Hoster Tully is Brynden Tully, known as The Blackfish. The famous bastard of House Blackwood is Brynden Rivers, known as Bloodraven.

Hoster Blackwood was probably named after papa Tully, he is his vassel.

Rivers tells Bran that its a possibility that his great uncle is named after him, but probably not. Id agree with him

[Lynesse]

In AGOT, Arya turns down sword fighting lessons from Barristan (Ned offers to ask him to take over her training). 

Sansa has the Whent (potentially Lothston) look. The Blackfish tells Catelyn that she looks like her mother Minisa Whent (the jaw and I think the high cheekbones are mentioned). Sansa looks like Catelyn (the high cheekbones etc.).

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 7/19/2018 at 2:24 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

I just ran into this

 

And started to wonder who appreciates songs and music?

 

Two lords that I can think of who appreciates music

Tywin

 

Walder

 

We all know how much Sansa loves songs, though I can't find the quote she informa queen on Ned's plans, here's some music appreciation

 

Who else is there that likes music?

Me. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 7/20/2018 at 2:07 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Just noticed this yesterday as I was listening to ASOS while cruising the strip for leeches...

Barri goes to Dany under squishy-false pretenses so that he can judge her personality in order to decide if he will support her or not... just as the Flint and Norrey mountain clans do to Jon in ADWD as they walk along the wall and they interrogate Jon to all the hells and back until they are satisfied with Jon's answer. 

This shows another similar, yet different, detail in each other's arc. Dany is judged to be not like her mad king father, while Jon is judged to be like his Ice wielding (adoptive) father, Eddard (*this Jon section is long, so I only posted the main point).

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI

"Why ask for truth," Ser Barristan said softly, "if you close your ears to it?" He hesitated, then continued. "I told you before that I used a false name so the Lannisters would not know that I'd joined you. That was less than half of it, Your Grace. The truth is, I wanted to watch you for a time before pledging you my sword. To make certain that you were not . . ."

". . . my father's daughter?" If she was not her father's daughter, who was she?

". . . mad," he finished.

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

The northmen glanced at one another. "Hostages," mused The Norrey. "Tormund has agreed to this?"

It was that, or watch his people die. "My blood price, he called it," said Jon Snow, "but he will pay."

"Aye, and why not?" Old Flint stomped his cane against the ice. "Wards, we always called them, when Winterfell demanded boys of us, but they were hostages, and none the worse for it."

"None but them whose sires displeased the Kings o' Winter," said The Norrey. "Those came home shorter by a head. So you tell me, boy … if these wildling friends o' yours prove false, do you have the belly to do what needs be done?"

Ask Janos Slynt. "Tormund Giantsbane knows better than to try me. I may seem a green boy in your eyes, Lord Norrey, but I am still a son of Eddard Stark."

Interesting, but this is what caught my eye... "while cruising the strip for leeches..."

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Quote

"No," the old man said. "It must be you. Tell them. The prophecy . . . my brother's dream . . . (Sam IV, AFFC 35)

Which brother is that? Daeron or Egg? Is it the brother who had dragon dreams or the one who burned Summerhall down in some kind of fiery ritual that may resemble what Dany did with Drogo's pyre to hatch her eggs. Or was it the one who drank wildfire.

So now Sam has information on some dream from some 50-60 years ago that is now relevant to the story that one of Aemon's brothers had that might be relevant to the prophecy of the ptwp and the long night.

I wonder, though. Aemon was Daeron's maester. Would he have recorded those dreams since they were of a prophetic nature?

[hodorisfaclessman]

The red wedding

Questions arise when we ask did roose hire mercs that could both sorta  play music and shoot crossbow or have crossbowmen train to play passibly but badly!

[Corvo the Crow]

 

Theon's name

Quote

Theon Stark, the Hungry Wolf. My namesake. 

 

Why is he named after him?

Namesakes can just be people sharing the same name but it's especially if one is named after the other also add to the fact all the namesakes we are explcitly told of to be namesakes are one named after the other person and then it strikes as curious to name him after a long dead King of Winter who fought against and defeated the Ironborn.

[Corvo the Crow]

 

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion IV

Tyrion wondered where the metal for this one had come from. A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of its making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria. "The colors are strange," he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the grey. The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. "How did you get this patterning? I've never seen anything like it."

"Nor I, my lord," said the armorer. "I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see. If my lords of Lannister are displeased, I will of course try again, as many times as you should require, but—"

 

Bolding doesn't work.

Dark grey is the normal color of VS but it is also one of the colors on the CoA of House Stark.

Is it the grey of the VS the blades remember or the grey of the Starks?

The North Remembers!

Also one of these blades, Oathkeeper, is given to Brienne to aid her in her search for Sansa. Sansa (who owned a grey direwolf), is a Stark, a grey direwolf, who has donned the crimson cloak of the Lannisters.