Wow, I never noticed that v.17

[The Fattest Leech]

3 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

"I will tell you," said Davos, "if you will tell me who betrayed me." It could only have been Salladhor Saan, and yet even now he prayed it was not so.

The red woman laughed. "No one betrayed you, onion knight. I saw your purpose in my flames."

- Davos III, ASOS

 

"If the wildling had meant her harm, she would have seen it in her flames. Danger to her own person was the first thing she had learned to see, back when she was still half a child, a slave girl bound for life to the great red temple. It was still the first thing she looked for whenever she gazed into a fire."

- Melisandre, ADWD

Yes, oh so yes to this! My goosebumps agree 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Three blocks later the street opened up before them onto a huge torchlit plaza, and there it stood. Seven save me, that's got to be three times the size of the Great Sept of Baelor. An enormity of pillars, steps, buttresses, bridges, domes, and towers flowing into one another as if they had all been chiseled from one collosal rock, the Temple of the Lord of Light loomed like Aegon's High Hill. A hundred hues of red, yellow, gold, and orange met and melded in the temple walls, dissolving one into the other like clouds at sunset. It's slender towers twisted even upward, frozen flames dancing as they reached for the sky. Fire turned to stone. Huge nightfires burned beside the temple steps, and between them the High Priest had begun to speak. (Tyrion VII, ADWD 27)

ETA: I haven't seen anything about Quaithe possibly being a priestess of R'hllor.

Benerro's high voice carried well. Tall and thin, he had a drawn face and skin white as milk. Flames had been tattooed across his cheeks and chin and shaven head to make a bright red mask that crackled about his eyes and coiled down and around his lipless mouth. "Is that a slave tattoo?" asked Tyrion.

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

In the ongoing debate on whether Stannis knew or didn't know about Mance.

"Stannis burned the wrong man."
"No." The wildling grinned at him through a mouth of brown and broken teeth. "He burned the man he had to burn, for all the world to see. We all do what we have to do Snow, even kings." (Jon VII, ADWD 28)

[Corvo the Crow]

I've been mostly listening folk rock for the past few years and it has led me to scandinavian ballads, which is my preferred music to listen to for a year or so now. Anyway, one such song is Garmarna's Herr Mannelig, linked below. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy44ocuoWhE

It's about a mountaintroll who wants to marry the young squire/knight herr mannelig as she will become a human if he marries her but is refused because she is not a christian and the spawn of necken and devil

 

Necken are water spirits.

It immediately struck me then, we have a people called bog devils, living in the Neck and one broken boy, who wanted nothing but to become a knight, in love with one of those devils spawn of the neck.

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Quote

He was an uncle to Queen Selyse and had been among the first to follow her in accepting Melisandre's red god. If he is not a kinslayer, he is the next best thing. Axell Florent's brother had been burned by Melisandre, Maester Aemon had informed him, yet Ser Axell had done little and less to stop it. What sort of man can stand by idly and watch his own brother being burned alive? (Jon IX, ADWD 44)

Maybe more of a foreshadowing?

[Valyrian Lance]

30 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Maybe more of a foreshadowing?

Is it foreshadowing or a call-back?

[The Fattest Leech]

56 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Maybe more of a foreshadowing?

I always read that as backshadowing. Who else let their brother be burned alive? 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

26 minutes ago, Valyrian Lance said:

Is it foreshadowing or a call-back?

 

2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I always read that as backshadowing. Who else let their brother be burned alive? 

Are we talking about fire or a melted crown? If it's fire, I am completely blanking out.

I'm also going off on Aegon being the real deal and those fabulous inner thoughts Jon has when he leaves the Wall, intent on joining Robb.

 

[Valyrian Lance]

5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I always read that as backshadowing. Who else let their brother be burned alive? 

 

1 minute ago, Widow's Watch said:

 

Are we talking about fire or a melted crown? If it's fire, I am completely blanking out.

I'm also going off on Aegon being the real deal and those fabulous inner thoughts Jon has when he leaves the Wall, intent on joining Robb.

 

I am referring to Jon not letting his Night's Watch brother, Mance, burn alive.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 minutes ago, Valyrian Lance said:

I am referring to Jon not letting his Night's Watch brother, Mance, burn alive.

It's sad that I'm in the middle of a re-read of ADWD and I just blanked out on it. It's very possible. I still think it's a foreshadowing of things to come, but who knows. Originally, I thought this might have to do with Mel wanting to burn Bowen & Co. She might want to feed Bran to the flames if he comes south of the Wall. She has seen him in her vision and thinks he works for the Great Other, and there's the Dance of the Dragons v. 2.0 that's supposed to happen. 

[Valyrian Lance]

1 minute ago, Widow's Watch said:

It's sad that I'm in the middle of a re-read of ADWD and I just blanked out on it. It's very possible. I still think it's a foreshadowing of things to come, but who knows. Originally, I thought this might have to do with Mel wanting to burn Bowen & Co. She might want to feed Bran to the flames if he comes south of the Wall. She has seen him in her vision and thinks he works for the Great Other, and there's the Dance of the Dragons v. 2.0 that's supposed to happen. 

It could certainly be simple foreshadowing whether a Night's Watch brother like Bowen or his familial brother like Bran.

[The Fattest Leech]

19 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

 

Are we talking about fire or a melted crown? If it's fire, I am completely blanking out.

Both. Fire people are fire people. 

Quote

I'm also going off on Aegon being the real deal and those fabulous inner thoughts Jon has when he leaves the Wall, intent on joining Robb.

 

I do also believe Aegon is the real deal (as much as I love and root for Blackfyres). And I do believe a fire person will end up burning Aegon (“clan” kin). 

[The Fattest Leech]

11 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

It's sad that I'm in the middle of a re-read of ADWD and I just blanked out on it. It's very possible. I still think it's a foreshadowing of things to come, but who knows.

It’s both. Jon doesn’t like people who burn their “brother”. So what happens when Jon encounters people who burn their brother? He puts and end to it (arrow to Rattleshirt) and doesn’t trust the fire person. What we read in the previous books is setup for the future books as plotlines start to come together. 

11 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Originally, I thought this might have to do with Mel wanting to burn Bowen & Co

Well, Bowen might burn, but only because he was used as a vessel... kinda like Cragan (sp?) at the Queensmoot with the horn. Sam mentions how odd it is that Mel shows interest in Marsh. But that’s another thread 

11 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

 

. She might want to feed Bran to the flames if he comes south of the Wall. She has seen him in her vision and thinks he works for the Great Other, and there's the Dance of the Dragons v. 2.0 that's supposed to happen. 

I agree. Mel probably would want to burn Bran, but that ain’t happening   Chances are Mel and Selyse will be out of the picture by the end of TWOW. Many options here. 

The Dance of the Dragons 2.0 (and a half I think?) will most likely take place either on the Trident, or the Gods Eye. 

All speculation, of course 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

One of the chambers in Bloodraven's cave;

As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. (Bran III, ADWD 34)

Dany's observation about Viserion;

Viserion had shattered one chain and melted the others. He clung to the roof of the pit like some huge white bat, his claws dug deep into the burnt and crumbling bricks. (Dany VIII, ADWD 50)

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Widow's Watch said:

One of the chambers in Bloodraven's cave;

As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. (Bran III, ADWD 34)

Dany's observation about Viserion;

Viserion had shattered one chain and melted the others. He clung to the roof of the pit like some huge white bat, his claws dug deep into the burnt and crumbling bricks. (Dany VIII, ADWD 50)

Which has led to speculation that these might be ice dragons, and that the Others might be able to animate them. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Which has led to speculation that these might be ice dragons, and that the Others might be able to animate them. 

I tend to not pay attention to things like these in the text, tbh. 

I doubt we will be seeing animated ice dragons, but I would like to know what the rules of animation are. If the Others can animate everything, even those who have died years ago, then the lands north of the Wall would be overrun with wights.

[Rufus Snow]

3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

One of the chambers in Bloodraven's cave;

As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. (Bran III, ADWD 34)

 

This reminded me of something that crossed my mind a while ago, but hadn't checked. Now I have and confirmed it: no-one in the stories has actually seen a live bat. Plenty of similes and heraldic bats, but the closest we get are Bran's skeleton bat above, and Arya hearing bats whilst she's at Harrenhal (appropriately)

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Arya climbed. Up in the kingdom of the leaves, she unsheathed and for a time forgot them all, Ser Amory and the Mummers and her father's men alike, losing herself in the feel of rough wood beneath the soles of her feet and the swish of sword through air. A broken branch became Joffrey. She struck at it until it fell away. The queen and Ser Ilyn and Ser Meryn and the Hound were only leaves, but she killed them all as well, slashing them to wet green ribbons. When her arm grew weary, she sat with her legs over a high limb to catch her breath in the cool dark air, listening to the squeak of bats as they hunted. Through the leafy canopy she could see the bone-white branches of the heart tree. It looks just like the one in Winterfell from here. If only it had been . . . then when she climbed down she would have been home again, and maybe find her father sitting under the weirwood where he always sat.

 

 

[Rufus Snow]

2 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I tend to not pay attention to things like these in the text, tbh. 

I doubt we will be seeing animated ice dragons, but I would like to know what the rules of animation are. If the Others can animate everything, even those who have died years ago, then the lands north of the Wall would be overrun with wights.

That's something else I've wondered about. I gather that the corpse still needs muscles, tendons and bones, to be able to operate in a mechanically correct manner, so I don't expect to see skeletons walking, whereas a severed arm could still crawl along under the power of the fingers, but wouldn't be able to flex the elbow if the biceps and triceps were cut.

Also with the evidence of Thorne's hand, the corpses (or parts thereof) can still decay beyond a point where they can't continue to articulate.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

@Rufus Snow, there's another quote with Arya and bats.

The topmost story was infested with nests of the huge black bats that House Whent used for its sigil, and there were rats in the cellars as well . . . and ghosts, some said, the spirits of Harren the Black and his sons. (Arya VII, Clash 30)

And there's also a quote with regard to Sansa turning into a wolf with the wings of a bat post-Joffrey's death, somewhere in ASOS.

When I saw the quote about the giant bats in Bloodraven's cave, my thoughts went to House Whent. Those are the quotes I was reminded of. The Stark children are Whent by blood through Catelyn. 

Viserion hanging upside down like a giant white bat. Viserion is a white dragon dragon, so that's mainly where my mind went. 

[Rufus Snow]

11 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

@Rufus Snow, there's another quote with Arya and bats.

The topmost story was infested with nests of the huge black bats that House Whent used for its sigil, and there were rats in the cellars as well . . . and ghosts, some said, the spirits of Harren the Black and his sons. (Arya VII, Clash 30)

And there's also a quote with regard to Sansa turning into a wolf with the wings of a bat post-Joffrey's death, somewhere in ASOS.

When I saw the quote about the giant bats in Bloodraven's cave, my thoughts went to House Whent. Those are the quotes I was reminded of. The Stark children are Whent by blood through Catelyn. 

Viserion hanging upside down like a giant white bat. Viserion is a white dragon dragon, so that's mainly where my mind went. 

Strictly, that Clash quote talks about the nests of bats - and that was the tendency that piqued my interest - it's all allegorical bats, bats nests, heraldic bats, bat similes - but no REAL bats.

And yes, that wolf with bat wings was spot on after the Purple Wedding Then all the Harrenhal connections for other characters - Brienne (Lothston shield, changed for you-know-who's later); Jaime takes a Whent shield; and you know I'm really not sure that Cersei is going to get great joy from Robert STRONG 'created' by Qyburn who joined the Lannister cause.... at Harrenhal.

As with bats, so with spiders: spiders webs, spider tattoos, spidery eunuchs, stories of spiders and ice spiders, heraldic spiders and allegorical spiders - but no REAL spiders in the story.

I think Cat gives us a clue how to read 'spiders' early on: " He was a spider, she thought wildly, an enchanter or worse." Ironic if Varys really does hate magic as much as he claims....

And this also cropped up which I'd missed before:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII

When Daario brought them forward, she saw that one of them was a woman, big and blond and all in mail. "Pretty Meris," her captain named her, though pretty was the last thing Dany would have called her. She was six feet tall and earless, with a slit nose, deep scars in both cheeks, and the coldest eyes the queen had ever seen. As for the rest …

Hugh Hungerford was slim and saturnine, long-legged, long-faced, clad in faded finery. Webber was short and muscular, with spiders tattooed across his head and chest and arms. Red-faced Orson Stone claimed to be a knight, as did lanky Lucifer Long. Will of the Woods leered at her even as he took a knee. Dick Straw had cornflower-blue eyes, hair as white as flax, and an unsettling smile. Ginger Jack's face was hidden behind a bristly orange beard, and his speech was unintelligible. "He bit off half his tongue in his first battle," Hungerford explained to her.

Those Webbers keep on cropping up now I've noticed them....