Wow, I never noticed that v.17

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Strictly, that Clash quote talks about the nests of bats - and that was the tendency that piqued my interest - it's all allegorical bats, bats nests, heraldic bats, bat similes - but no REAL bats.

And yes, that wolf with bat wings was spot on after the Purple Wedding Then all the Harrenhal connections for other characters - Brienne (Lothston shield, changed for you-know-who's later); Jaime takes a Whent shield; and you know I'm really not sure that Cersei is going to get great joy from Robert STRONG 'created' by Qyburn who joined the Lannister cause.... at Harrenhal.

As with bats, so with spiders: spiders webs, spider tattoos, spidery eunuchs, stories of spiders and ice spiders, heraldic spiders and allegorical spiders - but no REAL spiders in the story.

I think Cat gives us a clue how to read 'spiders' early on: " He was a spider, she thought wildly, an enchanter or worse." Ironic if Varys really does hate magic as much as he claims....

And this also cropped up which I'd missed before:

Those Webbers keep on cropping up now I've noticed them....

Quote

"Webber, you nurse claims to lands lost in Westeros."

The Windblown, Dance 25

Quote

Webber was short and muscular, with spiders tattooed across his head and chest and arms.

Daenerys VI, Dance 43

Quote

It was a grant of rights, ser. To Lord Wyman Webber, from the king. For his leal service in the late rebellion, Lord Wyman and his descendants were granted all rights to the Chequy Water, from where it rises in the Horseshoe Hills to the shores of Leafy Lake. It also said that Lord Wyman and his descendants should have the right to take red deer and boar and rabbits in Wats Wood whenever it pleased them, and to cut twenty trees from the wood each year. The boy cleared his throat. The grant was only for a time, though. The paper said that if Ser Eustace were to die without a male heir of his body, Standfast would revert to the crown, and Lord Webbers privileges would end.

The Sworn Sword

So, there is a chance the old Webber-Osgrey relationship might come into play. Maybe the Windblown Webber is a descendant of cousin Wendel who lost his chance to take Coldmoat when Dunk killed Lucas and Eustace wed Rohanne. If Webber had a child with Eustace (actually Dunk's bastard???) then Coldmoat could be held by House Osgrey. Assuming Osgrey will (unknowingly) side with the Black Dragon once again and the Windblown will side with Daenerys, this sets up another confrontation between Webber and Osgrey.

[Rufus Snow]

6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, there is a chance the old Webber-Osgrey relationship might come into play.

That's a possibility, though I'm not sure how likely it is that Eustace got himself an heir (though Walder Frey seems to manage....)

The only reference to Osgrey in the main series I've noticed is at the Wall, though I get the impression this is some long-gone Osgrey from the context:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

The Shieldhall was one of the older parts of Castle Black, a long drafty feast hall of dark stone, its oaken rafters black with the smoke of centuries. Back when the Night's Watch had been much larger, its walls had been hung with rows of brightly colored wooden shields. Then as now, when a knight took the black, tradition decreed that he set aside his former arms and take up the plain black shield of the brotherhood. The shields thus discarded would hang in the Shieldhall.

Hundreds of knights meant hundreds of shields. Hawks and eagles, dragons and griffins, suns and stags, wolves and wyverns, manticores, bulls, trees and flowers, harps, spears, crabs and krakens, red lions and golden lions and chequy lions, owls, lambs, maids and mermen, stallions, stars, buckets and buckles, flayed men and hanged men and burning men, axes, longswords, turtles, unicorns, bears, quills, spiders and snakes and scorpions, and a hundred other heraldic charges had adorned the Shieldhall walls, blazoned in more colors than any rainbow ever dreamed of.

 

It's the Webber - Lannister connection (that I had overlooked til someone mentioned it here) that I'm wondering about, being as Rohanne was Tywin's granny.... and I have seen darker rumours on the boards, which I haven't yet followed through...

 

[Megorova]

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The Windblown, Dance 25

Daenerys VI, Dance 43

The Sworn Sword

So, there is a chance the old Webber-Osgrey relationship might come into play. Maybe the Windblown Webber is a descendant of cousin Wendel who lost his chance to take Coldmoat when Dunk killed Lucas and Eustace wed Rohanne. If Webber had a child with Eustace (actually Dunk's bastard???) then Coldmoat could be held by House Osgrey. Assuming Osgrey will (unknowingly) side with the Black Dragon once again and the Windblown will side with Daenerys, this sets up another confrontation between Webber and Osgrey.

I think, that maybe Varys is grandson of Rohanne Webber-Lannister.

My theory is that when Rohanne has disappeared in 230, she was pregnant, and later that same year gave birth to Jenny of Oldstones. So Jenny was half-Webber and half-Lannister, and Rohanne later became the Ghost of High Heart. Rohanne really was a witch, and she made Duncan Targaryen to fall in love with Jenny, by giving him love potion. During burning of Summerhall, Jenny was kidnapped by one of Blackfyres, and later in 259 gave birth to Varys (the father is a Blackfyre). So Varys was born same year as Rhaegar, and in 300 he is 40-41 years old (came to Westeros in 278, when he was 19).

 

Back to Wow, I never noticed - I previously had a theory, that story of Bloodraven and Shiera is a parallel to wizard Merlin and his lovers Morgana le Fey, and the Lady of the Lake, Nimue, from Arthurian legends - Merlin was lured into a trap by Nimue, and she binded him to a tree, in a cave, where later he died; so I think, that it was Shiera, who binded Bloodraven to Weirwood. Also I wrote before, that Bloodraven is a parallel to Lion of the Night, and Dothraki's Sun and Stars, and Shiera is a parallel to Maiden-made-of-light, and Dothraki's Moon - in Jon's dream, in his first chapter from ADWD, there was a moment, when in a dream he was chased by the moon, that was trying to communicate with him, and he run from her towards the cave of night where the sun has hidden (moon is Shiera, sun is Bloodraven, cave of Night is that cave, in which Bloodraven is tied to the Weirwood Network, thus Weirwood is the source of night/cause of Long Night); according to legends of Yi Ti, the cause of first Long Night was connected to the Lion of Night and his wife, the Maiden-made-of-light. Lion is the sun, and his wife, the Maiden, is the moon, like in Dothraki legends. In Dany's prophetic vision she saw white lion. Jon's dream has connected sun and night, so Bloodraven is new Lion of the Night, and the sun that is hiding in the cave of night/Weirwood. Bloodraven is lion, but because he is an albino, he is a white lion, the one, that Dany saw in her vision.

The thing, that I haven't noticed before, is that, if my theory about Bloodraven/Merlin/Lion/sun and Shiera/Nimue/Maiden/moon is correct, then Bloodraven and Shiera are also parallels or repeat of the story about Night's King.

He was 13th Lord Commander of Night's Watch. He was lured beyond The Wall by corpse queen, and they ruled NW for 13 years. According to Old Nan, he was a Stark, and his name was Brandon. Bloodraven was LC for 13 years (239-252). Bloodraven's name, Brynden, is similar to Brandon. And among Starks there were Blackwoods - Alysanne and Melantha. Alysanne gave birth to four daughters of Cregan Stark (they married in 131), if one of those girl has married back into Blackwood family, then by known timeline, it is possible, that this girl was Bloodraven's maternal grandmother, and mother of Melissa Blackwood. Melissa became sixth mistress of Aegon IV, in 172, and Bloodraven was born in 175. If Melissa's mother was Sarra, Alys, Raya or Mariah Stark, then Bloodraven is bloodrelated to House Stark. Maybe Old Nan was wrong - the Night's King wasn't 13th Lord Commander, Brandon Stark, he was 193rd LC, Brynden partially Stark, and his Night's Queen was Shiera Seastar. According to legend about Night's King, he was defeated by Brandon the Breaker, the King of Winter, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the Wall. This Brandon could actually be Brandon Stark, the son of Artos Stark. When Bloodraven has joined NW, in 233, Artos Stark was Lord of Winterfell. So it's likely, that 19 years later, when Bloodraven has "disappeared" beyond The Wall, the Lord of Winterfell was Artos' son, Brandon Stark. Thus there was no Night's King thousands years ago, actually this story has happened less than 50 year ago.

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

That's a possibility, though I'm not sure how likely it is that Eustace got himself an heir (though Walder Frey seems to manage....)

Perhaps he had very tall heir, near seven feet?

[Rufus Snow]

44 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps he had very tall heir, near seven feet?

I'd like to think so, the lunk earned it

[Crona]

This may have been induced by the audiobooks, because Royce Dotrice used a similar voice  for Varys and Caleotte, but does anyone else get major Varys feels when reading about Caleotte?

Quote

Areo Hotah jerked his longaxe upright and stepped to one side. Obara gave him a lingering last look and strode past, the maester hurrying at her heels. Caleotte was no more than five feet tall and bald as an egg. His face was so smooth and fat that it was hard to tell his age, but he had been here before the captain, had even served the prince's mother. Despite his age and girth, he was still nimble enough, and clever as they came, but meek. He is no match for any Sand Snake, the captain thought

His slippers whispering against the floor, Maester Caleotte crossed the hall to Ser Balon Swann. The round little man looked splendid in his new robes, with their broad bands of dun and butternut and narrow stripes of red. Bowing, he took the chest from the hands of the white knight and carried it to the dais, where Doran Martell sat in his rolling chair between his daughter Arianne and his dead brother's beloved paramour, Ellaria. A hundred scented candles perfumed the air. Gemstones glittered on the fingers of the lords and the girdles and hairnets of the ladies. Areo Hotah had polished his shirt of copper scales mirror-bright so he would blaze in the candlelight as well.

So it fell to Obara Sand to roll the prince's chair from Sunspear's feast hall and down a long gallery to his solar. Areo Hotah followed with her sisters, along with Princess Arianne and Ellaria Sand. Maester Caleotte hurried behind on slippered feet, cradling the Mountain's skull as if it were a child.

"Very good, my prince." Maester Caleotte bowed, Ser Gregor's head still clutched in his soft pink hands.

 

Quote

“There was a soft knock on the door. “Enter,” Littlefinger called out.

The man who stepped through the door was plump, perfumed, powdered, and as hairless as an egg. He wore a vest of woven gold thread over a loose gown of purple silk, and on his feet were pointed slippers of soft velvet. “Lady Stark,” he said 

Taking her hand in both of his, “to see you again after so many years is such a joy.” His flesh was soft and moist, and his breath smelled of lilacs. “Oh, your poor hands. Have you burned yourself, sweet lady? The fingers are so delicate … Our good Maester Pycelle makes a marvelous salve, shall I send for a jar?”
Catelyn slid her fingers from his grasp. “I thank you, my lord, but my own Maester Luwin has already seen to my hurts.”
Varys bobbed his head. “I was grievous sad to hear about your son. And him so young. The gods are cruel.”
“On that we agree, Lord Varys,” she said. The title was but a courtesy due him as a council member; Varys was lord of nothing but the spiderweb, the master of none but his whisperers.
The eunuch spread his soft hands. “On more than that, I hope, sweet lady. I have great esteem for your husband, our new Hand, and I know we do both love King Robert.

 

 

[Rufus Snow]

1 hour ago, Crona said:

soft hands

Quite a few maesters are described as having soft hands, as are Symon Silver-Tongue and Clydas and many women

Slippers are rarer: Varys, Dany, Arya, the Kindly Man, and Yezzan's pets.

I think these just indicate 'indoor' people as much as anything.

Egg/head references apply to: Varys, Pycelle, Ebben and Clydas

 

I hadn't connected Varys to Caleotte, partly because these factors are common to more than these two characters, but I think mostly due to Caleotte being 'meek'.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I've been wondering. Is it a coincidence that the Night's Watch have a ship named "Storm Crow" and that we have a free company with the same name? 

[Darion Storm]

10 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I've been wondering. Is it a coincidence that the Night's Watch have a ship named "Storm Crow" and that we have a free company with the same name? 

Seeing as the Night’s Watch are called crows, it doesn’t seem improbable to me that it’s just a coincidence.

But it is possible that the Stormcrows sold them a ship or had one wreck near to the wall that NW repaired.

[kissdbyfire]

Dany's Silver 

Spoiler

is a pale mare

 

[Corvo the Crow]

Torrhen Stark was a cunning diplomat.

Aegon proposed the bastard brother he so loved marry Argilac's daughter and Argilac felt insulted and cut the hands of the envoy and this started the conquest. When negotiating for a peace Torrhen could have send any highborn lord but he didn't instead he sent his own bastard brother. He has found a common ground with Aegon; their love for their bastard brothers.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

The secret of Valyrian steel is tattooed on Steelskin 

Outside the carved hardwood doors to the king's chambers stood Steelskin, a young pit fighter, not yet regarded as of he first rank. His cheeks and brow were scarred with intricate tattoos of green and black, ancient Valyrian sorcerer's signs that supposedly made his flesh and skin as hard as steel. Similar markings covered his chest and arms, though whether they would actually stop a sword or axe remained to be seen. (The Kingbreaker, ADWD 67)

I don't know if that's the case, but the choice of color is also an interesting one.

[Darion Storm]

8 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The secret of Valyrian steel is tattooed on Steelskin 

Outside the carved hardwood doors to the king's chambers stood Steelskin, a young pit fighter, not yet regarded as of he first rank. His cheeks and brow were scarred with intricate tattoos of green and black, ancient Valyrian sorcerer's signs that supposedly made his flesh and skin as hard as steel. Similar markings covered his chest and arms, though whether they would actually stop a sword or axe remained to be seen. (The Kingbreaker, ADWD 67)

I don't know if that's the case, but the choice of color is also an interesting one.

It’s possible, though it seems a bit of a waste if he of his former master knew they were for Valyrian Steel. That knowledge would be priceless and they use it to protect this one guy.

[Kandrax]

Every Aegon since the first one was  Unlikely.

Rhaenyra was supposed to inherit instead of Aegon II.

Aegon III had three older brothers.

Aegon IV inherited only because his cousins died without any descendant.

And if Aegon is really Aegon, son of Rhaegar then he is also Unlikely because Viserys was supposed to be King after Rhaegar was disinherited.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

4 hours ago, Darion Storm said:

It’s possible, though it seems a bit of a waste if he of his former master knew they were for Valyrian Steel. That knowledge would be priceless and they use it to protect this one guy.

I think the point is that the knowledge to make Valyrian steel may not be as lost as people think it is. Barristan doesn't really seem to understand what this is and is obviously skeptical about the tattoos are and for good reason. 

Things that are lost tend to resurface and people don't always know or understand what they have between their hands. 

I don't think that's a throwaway line in any case.

[Seams]

From The Sworn Sword:

The cook always claimed my father was some thief or cutpurse. 'Most like I saw him hanged,' he used to tell me, 'but maybe they just sent him to the Wall.' When I was squiring for Ser Arlan, I would ask him if we couldn't go up that way some day, to take service at Winterfell or some other northern castle. I had this notion that if I could only reach the Wall, might be I'd come on some old man, a real tall man who looked like me. We never went, though.

Earlier in the same novella:

They found Ser Lucas Longinch amongst the watchers at the quintain, speaking with a great fat septon who was sweating worse than Dunk, a round white pudding of a man in robes as damp as if he'd worn them in his bath. Inchfield was a lance beside him, stiff and straight and very tall . . . though not so tall as Dunk. Six feet and seven inches, Dunk judged, and each inch prouder than the last. Though he wore black silk and cloth-of-silver, Ser Lucas looked as cool as if he were walking on the Wall.

. . .

Ser Lucas studied Dunk. He was an older man; forty at the least, perhaps as old as fifty, sinewy rather than muscular, with a remarkably ugly face.

After those other excerpts, just before Dunk fights Inchfield / Longinch:

"I would sooner be the dragon's friend." She tried the ring on her finger. It was too big even for her thumb. "Dragon or no, I must have Bennis of the Brown Shield."

"No."

"You are seven feet of stubborn."

"Less an inch."

She gave him back the ring.

[rotting sea cow]

Quote

"The dead do not rise"

- Haldon to the crew of the Shy Maid in Tyrion V, ADWD

Oh-Oh, Aegon VI will completely ignore the threat in the North.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 10/13/2018 at 7:42 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The secret of Valyrian steel is tattooed on Steelskin 

Outside the carved hardwood doors to the king's chambers stood Steelskin, a young pit fighter, not yet regarded as of he first rank. His cheeks and brow were scarred with intricate tattoos of green and black, ancient Valyrian sorcerer's signs that supposedly made his flesh and skin as hard as steel. Similar markings covered his chest and arms, though whether they would actually stop a sword or axe remained to be seen. (The Kingbreaker, ADWD 67)

I don't know if that's the case, but the choice of color is also an interesting one.

Like a certain princess and a queen who danced. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 10/14/2018 at 3:27 PM, Seams said:

From The Sworn Sword:

The cook always claimed my father was some thief or cutpurse. 'Most like I saw him hanged,' he used to tell me, 'but maybe they just sent him to the Wall.' When I was squiring for Ser Arlan, I would ask him if we couldn't go up that way some day, to take service at Winterfell or some other northern castle. I had this notion that if I could only reach the Wall, might be I'd come on some old man, a real tall man who looked like me. We never went, though.

Earlier in the same novella:

They found Ser Lucas Longinch amongst the watchers at the quintain, speaking with a great fat septon who was sweating worse than Dunk, a round white pudding of a man in robes as damp as if he'd worn them in his bath. Inchfield was a lance beside him, stiff and straight and very tall . . . though not so tall as Dunk. Six feet and seven inches, Dunk judged, and each inch prouder than the last. Though he wore black silk and cloth-of-silver, Ser Lucas looked as cool as if he were walking on the Wall.

. . .

Ser Lucas studied Dunk. He was an older man; forty at the least, perhaps as old as fifty, sinewy rather than muscular, with a remarkably ugly face.

After those other excerpts, just before Dunk fights Inchfield / Longinch:

"I would sooner be the dragon's friend." She tried the ring on her finger. It was too big even for her thumb. "Dragon or no, I must have Bennis of the Brown Shield."

"No."

"You are seven feet of stubborn."

"Less an inch."

She gave him back the ring.

[Guest]

On 6/27/2018 at 9:14 AM, Lollygag said:

Her hair was not the orange or strawberry color of common red-haired men, but a deep burnished copper that shone in the light of the torches. Even her eyes were red . . . but her skin was smooth and white, unblemished, pale as cream.

Sansa's hair is described in almost exactly the same way: "She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft . . . the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.” (Catelyn, ACOK).

I think copper in this instance means he just likes redheads.

Jon has met Mel, finds her beautiful, but her hair should have reminded him of Sansa.