Wow, I never noticed that v.17

[The Sleeper]

21 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I think it may be Lady Waynwood, Yohn has 4 children but none were married at the start of the series so far as we know. 

Yup, that was it. 

[Joey Crows]

Qyburn is/was a disciple of Marrwyn when he was in Oldtown. So, are they still working together in some way??

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 10/27/2018 at 5:19 AM, Guest said:

I think copper in this instance means he just likes redheads.

Who doesn't? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 10/28/2018 at 6:58 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Yohn Royce is the most powerful men in the Vale, has three sons but sends the youngest to NW and  his second son leaves him to join Renly becasuse a second son has nothing. Mychel Redfort has 4 sons from 3 wives, even his youngest get to be married and to whom? Ysilla Royce, daughter of the most Powerful man in the vale, a man so powerful he doesn't have the resources to keep his sons and marry his single daughter to a fourth son?

I suppose it depends on the father and the son. Eddard seemed to have a plan, or at least some ideas, for his kids. Mace wanted to use his to expand the power and prestige of his house. Robar and Waymar seemed to want to make their own way in the world without daddy. 

[Corvo the Crow]

Quote

The Winged Knight was Ser Artys Arryn. Legend said that he had driven the First Men from the Vale and flown to the top of the Giant's Lance on a huge falcon to slay the Griffin King. There were a hundred tales of his adventures. Little Robert knew them all so well he could have recited them from memory, but he liked to have them read to him all the same. "Sweetling, we have to go," she told the boy, "but I promise, I'll read you two tales of the Winged Knight when we reach the Gates of the Moon."

Griffin King. Bolding doesn't work.

We have houses that were exiled(Blackwood, Manderly) or move voluntarily(Bar Emmons) from their lands and I'm sure there were other such instances as well. 

Do you think Conningtons were one such house?

[Corvo the Crow]

Does Stannis wear black?

If so...

Cersei, who is implied to be a possible daughter of the mad king with her madness, wanting to burn the KL and other things wears green frequently.

Renly, descendant of Orys Baratheon who was thought to be a Targaryen bastard, wears green as well.

Battle of the Blackwater's most noticable colors were green and black as well.

If Stannis was wearing black, Wot5K, at least the part for the throne, was Dance of the Dragons v 2.0 and the two greens(Cersei and  Garlan as "Renly" defeated the one black.

 

[Rufus Snow]

I expect everyone else has seen these thousands of times before, but it only leapt out at me on my latest re-read:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VI

"We learned that to our sorrow, Ser Donnel," Catelyn said. Sometimes she felt as though her heart had turned to stone; six brave men had died to bring her this far, and she could not even find it in her to weep for them. Even their names were fading. "The clansmen harried us day and night. We lost three men in the first attack, and two more in the second, and Lannister's serving man died of a fever when his wounds festered. When we heard your men approaching, I thought us doomed for certain." They had drawn up for a last desperate fight, blades in hand and backs to the rock. The dwarf had been whetting the edge of his axe and making some mordant jest when Bronn spotted the banner the riders carried before them, the moon-and-falcon of House Arryn, sky-blue and white. Catelyn had never seen a more welcome sight.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VIII

Catelyn took his hand. "Robb, I will not soften the truth for you. If you lose, there is no hope for any of us. They say there is naught but stone at the heart of Casterly Rock. Remember the fate of Rhaegar's children."

 

[Corvo the Crow]

 

This is the Hound during Ned's execution.
 

Quote

Clustered around the doors of the sept, in front of the raised marble pulpit, were a knot of knights and high lords. Joffrey was prominent among them, his raiment all crimson, silk and satin patterned with prancing stags and roaring lions, a gold crown on his head. His queen mother stood beside him in a black mourning gown slashed with crimson, a veil of black diamonds in her hair. Arya recognized the Hound, wearing a snowy white cloak over his dark grey armor, with four of the Kingsguard around him. She saw Varys the eunuch gliding among the lords in soft slippers and a patterned damask robe, and she thought the short man with the silvery cape and pointed beard might be the one who had once fought a duel for Mother.

 

 

Notice the colors? The white cloak of a KG and dark grey plate, whereas a KG's armor is normally white. I wonder… which of the great houses use these colors also?

 

[wia]

41 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 

This is the Hound during Ned's execution.
 

 

Notice the colors? The white cloak of a KG and dark grey plate, whereas a KG's armor is normally white. I wonder… which of the great houses use these colors also?

 

None of the great houses use them other than Starks.

Of other houses:
Stormlands: House Mertyns - A white great horned owl on a grey field
North: House Slate - Pale grey, a double tressure white
Crownlands: House Pyle - A grey iron greathelm on white (semi-canon)

With other colours:
Reach: House Hightower - A white tower crowned with flames on smoke grey
North: House Cassel - Ten white wolves' heads, 4-3-2-1, on grey with a black border
North: House Flint of Flint's Finge - A grey stone hand upon a white inverted pall on paly black and grey
Crownlands: House Staunton - Two black wings upon a white fess on checkered black and grey
Vale: House Waxley - Six candles, white with red flames, within silver candle holders, on a grey field within a black border

I actually don't remember the Hound ever wearing yellow of his house besides his shield.
As for white armur, I believe it's not a must. Jaime is wearing a golden armor. I imagine the hound is not into fancy stuff and he just continued to use his regular armor.

[Corvo the Crow]

6 hours ago, wia said:

None of the great houses use them other than Starks.

Of other houses:
Stormlands: House Mertyns - A white great horned owl on a grey field
North: House Slate - Pale grey, a double tressure white
Crownlands: House Pyle - A grey iron greathelm on white (semi-canon)

With other colours:
Reach: House Hightower - A white tower crowned with flames on smoke grey
North: House Cassel - Ten white wolves' heads, 4-3-2-1, on grey with a black border
North: House Flint of Flint's Finge - A grey stone hand upon a white inverted pall on paly black and grey
Crownlands: House Staunton - Two black wings upon a white fess on checkered black and grey
Vale: House Waxley - Six candles, white with red flames, within silver candle holders, on a grey field within a black border

I actually don't remember the Hound ever wearing yellow of his house besides his shield.
As for white armur, I believe it's not a must. Jaime is wearing a golden armor. I imagine the hound is not into fancy stuff and he just continued to use his regular armor.

 I meant he,who first defends and tries to rescue one Stark daughter and then wounds up with the other, wears the colors of Starks.

he iscolored like a stark as well with grey eyes and brown hair.

I am not suggesting he is a secret stark but he is associated with them.

Same scene, Sansa is wearing the colors of another house as well,blue and silver. She later goes to Arryn lands

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I like the parallel and symbolism around this and the different perceptions two individuals have of the same thing.

Hesitantly, Ned followed. Littlefinger led him into a tower, down a stair, across a small sunken courtyard, and along a deserted corridor where empty suits of armor stood sentinel along the walls. They were relics of the Targaryens, black steel with dragon scales cresting their helms, now dusty and forgotten. (Eddard IV, AGOT 20)

They continued down the serpentine and across the small sunken courtyard. Ser Dontos shoved open a heavy door and lit a taper. They were inside a long gallery. Along the walls stood empty suits of armor, dark and dusty, their helms crested with rows of scales that continued down the backs. As they hurried past, the taper's light made the shadows of each scale stretch and twist. The hollow knights are turning into dragons, she thought. (Sansa V, ASOS 61)

[wia]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 I meant he,who first defends and tries to rescue one Stark daughter and then wounds up with the other, wears the colors of Starks.

he iscolored like a stark as well with grey eyes and brown hair.

I am not suggesting he is a secret stark but he is associated with them.

Same scene, Sansa is wearing the colors of another house as well,blue and silver. She later goes to Arryn lands

Yes, I caught that.

What I never noticed is grey eyes.
Stark colours riding the Stranger. Becomes a gravedigger later. The irony. )))

[Corvo the Crow]

Can't quote, but Val often wears white. We don't get to see Dalla's clothes but some of Val's clothes were given by Dalla.

Val and Dalla are sisters.

Jon's clothes are all black and his were given by his brothers. NW members are all brothers.

[Megorova]

11 hours ago, wia said:

None of the great houses use them other than Starks.

The Tattered Prince is using white, blue, and grey colors. Could be traditional colors of Starks + color of Winterfell's blue winter roses. I think, that he may be Rodrik Stark, the Wandering Wolf.

[wia]

3 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The Tattered Prince is using white, blue, and grey colors. Could be traditional colors of Starks + color of Winterfell's blue winter roses. I think, that he may be Rodrik Stark, the Wandering Wolf.

Isn't the Tattered Prince using pretty much all colours on his cloak?

Blue, white and grey are house Poole colours coincidentally.

[Megorova]

14 hours ago, wia said:

Isn't the Tattered Prince using pretty much all colours on his cloak?

Blue, white and grey are house Poole colours coincidentally.

I din't meant his cloak, it doesn't count, because of this -

"His stallion's spotted hindquarters were covered with ragged strips of cloth torn from the surcoats of men his master had slain. The prince's cloak was sewn together from more of the same." -

those are colors of whom he has defeated, while this is colors, that he has chosen for Windblown -

"The great grey sailcloth pavilion that the Tattered Prince liked to call his canvas castle was crowded when the Dornishmen arrived. It took Quentyn only a moment to realize that most of those assembled were from the Seven Kingdoms, or boasted Westerosi blood. "And now we ride," the Tattered Prince proclaimed from his huge grey warhorse, in a classic High Valyrian that was the closest thing they had to a company tongue... Streamers of pale blue silk fluttered from their lances, whilst fork-tailed blue-and-white banners flew overhead, the standards of the Windblown."

[wia]

46 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I din't meant his cloak, it doesn't count, because of this -

"His stallion's spotted hindquarters were covered with ragged strips of cloth torn from the surcoats of men his master had slain. The prince's cloak was sewn together from more of the same." -

those are colors of whom he has defeated, while this is colors, that he has chosen for Windblown -

"The great grey sailcloth pavilion that the Tattered Prince liked to call his canvas castle was crowded when the Dornishmen arrived. It took Quentyn only a moment to realize that most of those assembled were from the Seven Kingdoms, or boasted Westerosi blood. "And now we ride," the Tattered Prince proclaimed from his huge grey warhorse, in a classic High Valyrian that was the closest thing they had to a company tongue... Streamers of pale blue silk fluttered from their lances, whilst fork-tailed blue-and-white banners flew overhead, the standards of the Windblown."

Ah, I see. I just had this very colourful image of him.

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, wia said:

Ah, I see. I just had this very colourful image of him.

And this, about his cloak - "His hair and mail were silver-grey, but his ragged cloak was made of twists of cloth of many colors, blue and grey and purple, red and gold and green, magenta and vermilion and cerulean, all faded by the sun."

Even in description of his multicolored cloak, blue and grey colors are mentioned first.

So there's his grey pavilion, grey horse, grey mail <- grey is Tatters' main color. And his company's colors are white and blue, maybe, like blue winter roses in white snow.

He could be Rodrik Stark, or not. But what is known, is that prior creating Windblown, Tatters has served with Second Sons, and Rodrik Stark also used to be their member. Coincidence? Or, maybe, something more?

[Seams]

I understand the grey / white association with the Starks, but the emphasis with the Tattered Prince and the windblown is on wind. My guess is that the grey / white / blue combination represents sky and clouds:

Quote

 

"The great grey sailcloth pavilion that the Tattered Prince liked to call his canvas castle was crowded when the Dornishmen arrived. It took Quentyn only a moment to realize that most of those assembled were from the Seven Kingdoms, or boasted Westerosi blood. "And now we ride," the Tattered Prince proclaimed from his huge grey warhorse, in a classic High Valyrian that was the closest thing they had to a company tongue... Streamers of pale blue silk fluttered from their lances, whilst fork-tailed blue-and-white banners flew overhead, the standards of the Windblown."

 

 

If the cloud and sky connection is correct, I see a great real or symbolic link to House Arryn, whose Eyrie is perched above waycastles called stone, snow and sky. I believe it is while she is at the Eyrie that Sansa / Alayne has the vision of two cloud castles merging to become one. 

Because the Tattered Prince left Pentos when he was elected Prince of Pentos, I don't think he is a literal Arryn (or Rodrik Stark) - only members of the forty families in Pentos are allowed to become Prince. But he could be a symbolic, "shadow" version of one of these characters, used by GRRM to drop hints about parallels in Westeros. 

The main religion in Pentos is The faith of R'hllor. In fact, I wonder whether "Pentos = No Sept." The R'hllor affinity and the sailing imagery might recommend a closer examination of Moqorro for clues about the Tattered Prince or the Windblown: two of Moqorro's "five fingers" acolytes are carried away in a storm while holding ropes fastened to a sail. (There is an interesting parallel when Sweetrobin descends from the Eyrie with Sansa and Mya Stone - two servants hold the corners of his cloak, I believe, and he is like a falcon ready to fly.) 

That storm scene with Moqorro's fingers might also lead to consideration of the storm god . . . . 

We might also look at mast imagery, however - would masts be considered the opposite of sails? Partners that work together with sails? Mast imagery includes the wooden images of the seven that Melisandre burns at Dragonstone. (The wooden figures were carved from the masts of ships that brought Targaryens to Westeros.) Marwyn is called The Mastiff and we all recall that Sam Tarly has a famous fat pink mast. 

But clouds literally rise above masts and sails. I was finding some cloud hints in Dunk's many warnings to Egg about getting a "clout" on the ear, but I don't know when or if I will ever get back to analyzing that. 

[Megorova]

56 minutes ago, Seams said:

If the cloud and sky connection is correct, I see a great real or symbolic link to House Arryn

Rodrik Stark's mother was Lorra Royce from the Vale. And Jeyne Royce was first wife of Jon Arryn. After Jeyne's death, Jon has married with his cousin, Rowena Arryn. It's likely, that Jeyne, even though she was a Royce, also was partially Arryn. Maybe her mother was Arryn. So Jeyne Royce, Jon's first wife, also was his cousin, same as his second wife, Rowena Arryn.

Jon Arryn was born in 218-220, so if he was still alive, then in 300 AC, he would have been 80-82 years old. Tatters is in his sixties, he was born either in 238 or 239. Based on their ages, Jon and Jeyne are from the same generation as parents of Rodrik Stark. So it's likely, that Rodrik's mother, Lorra Royce, was sister of Jon Arryn's first wife, Jeyne Royce.

So Windblown's white and blue can represent white snow and blue winter roses of Rodrik's Stark-father, and white clouds and blue sky of Rodrik's Royce-mother (that was half-Arryn).

56 minutes ago, Seams said:

only members of the forty families in Pentos are allowed to become Prince.

Though he could have became member of one of those forty families thru marriage. How Illyrio Mopatis became a royalty thru his marriage with daughter of magister of Pentos.

If Tatters is really Rodrik Stark, even though he was already married to Arya Flint, he still could have married in Pentos. Because in Westeros, in The North, he was married in Old Gods ceremony, and in Pentos that wouldn't have counted. Or maybe Rodrik's wife has died in childbirth, thus he was free to remarry.