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Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn

Wow, I never noticed that v.17

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Another thing that does not exactly belong to this thread but doesn’t deserve it’s own thread  either.

I’ve recently learned about a weapon in welsh mythology, Drywnyn, meaning White-hilt. This weapon would Blaze with fire if drawn by worthy or well-born men.

Now, which weapons in asoiaf have similar descriptions, I wonder:dunno:

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“The king, the priest, the rich man—who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey? It’s a riddle without an answer, or rather, too many answers. “All depends on the man with the sword.”
“And yet he is no one,” Varys said. “He has neither crown nor gold nor favor of the gods, only a piece of pointed steel.”
“That piece of steel is the power of life and death.”
“Just so … yet if it is the swordsmen who rule us in truth, why do we pretend our kings hold the power? Why should a strong man with a sword ever obey a child king like Joffrey, or a wine-sodden oaf like his father?”
“Varys smiled. “Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”
“So power is a mummer’s trick?”
“A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

I like how Arya fits in as the swordsman in Varys' riddle. She is no one, she is a shadow. You can almost imagine how she would respond to the king, priest, and rich man: refusing to obey all of them. She sees through the mummer's trick.

Varys starts this riddle by talking about the comet and how "fire and blood is to follow." This is why I'm getting the strong feeling that Arya is going to kill Dany. 

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Can't remember whether I already brought this up.

Blue beard.

Daario Naharis was flamboyant even for a Tyroshi. His beard was cut into three prongs and dyed blue, the same color as his eyes and the curly hair that fell to his collar.  (ASoS, Chap. 42, Daenerys IV)

Blue bard.

The Blue Bard is a young singer in service with House Tyrell. His real name is Wat.[1] Dressing all in blue,[2] he dyes his curly, shoulder-length hair blue in the Tyroshi fashion.[1] He is a notably handsome young man. (wiki)

Blue bardings.

A roar went up from the crowd as a helmetless red-bearded man with a griffin on his shield went down before a big knight in blue armor. His steel was a deep cobalt, even the blunt morningstar he wielded with such deadly effect, his mount barded in the quartered sun-and-moon heraldry of House Tarth.… (ACoK, Catelyn II, Chap. 22)

The Blue Fork of the Trident is named for the purity of its water, which comes from springs south of the Frey seat known as The Twins. The Blue Fork flows into the Green Fork. Perhaps similarly, Brienne defeats Red Ronnet Connington in the melee and then Ser Loras (associated with Tyrell green) yields to give her the victory. Catelyn is associated with the Green Fork, as her body will be found there after the Red Wedding. Ser Robar Royce (Robar the Red) allows Brienne and Catelyn to escape the scene of Renly's murder. He is then slain by Ser Loras. 

I see a pattern with blue that involves a fork or a split - Daario's beard with its three prongs, for instance. (As well as the three heads he brings to Daenerys - two beheaded and his own. By the same token, his two weapons with gold women on the hilts and his own head also make three.) The Ironborn captain named Bluetooth is the father of twins. Amerei Frey was caught having sex with three men and subsequently married Pate of the Blue Fork. (Amerei's marriage may have been a symbolic "purification," since she was known as promiscuous before her family hastily arranged the betrothal to a lowly hedge knight.) When Daenerys is inquiring into the attack on Stalwart Shield, three Blue Graces (a religious order associated with nursing) arrive together to describe the care they provided for a wounded man who subsequently died. The dying and suffering dragon Tessarion, known as the Blue Queen, was put out of her misery by being shot in the eye with three arrows. 

Since Brienne is so closely associated with blue, the split motif might also refer to Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. 

The names Wat and Pate are associated with small folk. In the Dunk & Egg stories, several peasants use the name Wat in a story that revolves around water. I think it is no coincidence that Oldstones, the ruin associated with the ancient king, Tristifer Mudd, is located on the Blue Fork. There is some kind of association between literal mud and purity in GRRM's basket of literary symbols, although the washing off of mud and grime may be a key part of the symbolism. The Sworn Sword novella makes the point that land must be watered in order for crops to grow, so that combination of dirt and water may be the point. Perhaps he is alluding to the "down to earth" quality of some characters. Hedge knights, who sleep out in the open, may also share in this type of purity. (Would "unsullied" also be related to the purity of hedge knights, or are they the opposite of the muddy hedge knights?)

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"You are welcome to try. Until such time you must mistrust them all . . . and a little mistrust is a good thing in a princess." Prince Doran sighed.

- The Princess in the Tower, AFFC

"Perhaps you should be the fool instead of me. Trust no one, my prince. Not your chainless maester, not your false father, not the gallant Duck nor the lovely Lemore nor these other fine friends who grew you from a bean. Above all, trust not the cheesemonger, nor the Spider, nor this little dragon queen you mean to marry. All that mistrust will sour your stomach and keep you awake by night, 'tis true, but better that than the long sleep that does not end."

- Tyrion VI, ADWD

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About the sloe-eyed. I wonder if the Sloe-Eyed Maid might have belonged to House Merryweather.

Pinchbottom Petto and Sloe-Eyed Maid were too small for her needs, Bravo was bound for the Jade Sea, and Magister Manolo scarce looked seaworthy. (Dany V, Clash 63)

"Aye. From Qarth. There's pepper too." Lord Godric took a pinch between his thumb and forefinger and sprinkled his own trencher. "Cracked black pepper from Volantis, nothing finer. Take as much as you require if you're feeling peppery. I've got forty chests of it. Not to mention cloves and nutmeg, and a pound of saffron. Took it off a sloe-eyed maid." He laughed. He still had all his teeth, Davos saw, though most of them were yellow and one on the top was black and dead. "She was making for Braavos, but a gale swept her into the Bite and she smashed up against some of my rocks. So you see, you are not the only gift the storms have brought me. The sea's a treacherous cruel thing." (Davos I, ADWD 9)

"I do," said the man who'd started all the talk of dragons, a Braavosi oarsman in a somber woolen jack. "When we were down to Pentos we moored beside a trader called the Sloe-Eyed Maid, and I got to drinking with her captain's steward. He told me a pretty tale about some slip of a girl who come aboard in Qarth, to try and book passage back to Westeros for her and three dragons. Silver hair she had, and purple eyes. 'I took her to the captain my own self,' this steward swore to me, 'but he wasn't having none of that. There's more profit in cloves and saffron, he tells me, and spices won't set fire to your sails." (Davos II, ADWD 15)

Laughter swept the cellar. Davos did not join in. He knew what had befallen the Sloe-Eyed Maid. The gods were cruel to let a man sail across half the world, then send him chasing a false light when he was almost home. That captain was a bolder man than me, he thought, as he made his way to the door. (Davos II, ADWD 15)

And this about Taena Merryweather and the only other time in the books "sloe-eyed" is used;

It was a woman's voice, flavored with the accents of the east. For an instant she feared that Maggy the Frog was speaking to her from the grace. But it was only Merryweather's wife, the sloe-eyed beauty Lord Orton had wed during his exile and fetched home with him to Longtable. "The Small Hall is so stuffy," Cersei heard herself say. "The smoke was making my eyes water." (Cersei III, AFFC 12)

The implications on what they might have known in the Reach and when could be interesting if that were the case. There's also a ship called the Horn of Plenty which could be connected to the Merryweathers through its name that's moored at White Harbor at the same time Davos is in the city hearing the story of the Sloe-Eyed Maid in Qarth.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose
its name, not it's name

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1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

About the sloe-eyed. I wonder if the Sloe-Eyed Maid might have belonged to House Merryweather.

...

 

And this about Taena Merryweather and the only other time in the books "sloe-eyed" is used;

It was a woman's voice, flavored with the accents of the east. For an instant she feared that Maggy the Frog was speaking to her from the grace. But it was only Merryweather's wife, the sloe-eyed beauty Lord Orton had wed during his exile and fetched home with him to Longtable. "The Small Hall is so stuffy," Cersei heard herself say. "The smoke was making my eyes water." (Cersei III, AFFC 12)

The implications on what they might have known in the Reach and when could be interesting if that were the case. There's also a ship called the Horn of Plenty which could be connected to the Merryweathers through it's name that's moored at White Harbor at the same time Davos is in the city hearing the story of the Sloe-Eyed Maid in Qarth.

Very nice catch.

The reference to Maggy the Frog makes me think that the maid carrying spices might also be symbolic of Jeyne Westerling, whose mother was a Spicer and a granddaughter of Maggy. The wrecked ship could represent the wreck of Jeyne's marriage when the "brave captain" Robb Stark dies after sailing toward a false light. I suspect there may be a link - real or symbolic - between the suspicious behavior of Lady Merryweather and the Spicer / Westerling family, who may or may not be true allies of the Lannisters. Perhaps they are all fair weather friends . . .

I've wondered, too, whether there is a wordplay link between Cersei's childhood friend, Melara Heatherspoon, and Lady Merryweather. They are not anagrams of the exact same letters, but they share a lot of potential words.

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Margaery's septa Nysterica (probably, following the rule of narrative economy) is a Waynwood whose mother Alys Arryn was Jon Arryn's sister.

Septa Nysterica had a homely pox-scarred face but seemed jolly (Sansa I, ASOS)

"Lord Jasper Arryn, begin with him. Jon Arryn's father. He begot three children, two sons and a daughter. Jon was the eldest, so the Eyrie and the lordship passed to him. His sister Alys wed Ser Elys Waynwood, uncle to the present Lady Waynwood." (Alayne II, AFFC)

"Which brings us back to the five remaining daughters of Elys and Alys. The eldest had been left terribly scarred by the same pox that killed her sisters, so she became a septa.” (Alayne II, AFFC

"Ser Osney is young and lusty, I will grant you," the queen said, "but a faithful knight for all that. If he says that he was part of this . . . no, it cannot be. Margaery is a maiden!"

"She is not. I examined her myself, at the behest of His High Holiness. Her maidenhead is not intact. Septa Aglantine and Septa Melicent will say the same, as will Queen Margaery's own septa, Nysterica, who has been confined to a penitent's cell for her part in the queen's shame." (Cersei X, AFFC)

Not sure yet what this means.

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Posted (edited)

More thoughts on the great stone beast (I know many think it is Jon, just offering more detail here)

Stone wolf:

“Longclaw was slung to his saddle, the carved stone wolf’s-head pommel and soft leather grip of the great bastard sword within easy reach.” (Jon, ASOS)

“It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains.” (Alayne, AFFC)

Beasts stirring with a sword:

“There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs. ” (Daenerys, ASOS)

The opposite of the "great stone beast" breathing shadows:

“The nightfire burned against the gathering dark, a great bright beast whose shifting orange light threw shadows twenty feet tall across the yard. All along the walls of Dragonstone the army of gargoyles and grotesques seemed to stir and shift.” (Davos, ASOS)

"Stir" comes up again. The fire is ominous; the shadows are the gargoyles. Melisandre is burning people alive.

Two gargoyles in particular stand out in the first paragraph in Clash:

“The maester stood on the windswept balcony outside his chambers. It was here the ravens came, after long flight. Their droppings speckled the gargoyles that rose twelve feet tall on either side of him, a hellhound and a wyvern, two of the thousand that brooded over the walls of the ancient fortress.” (Prologue, ACOK)

A hellhound and a wyvern are similar to a wolf and a dragon (dragon/wolf). Ravens hanging out around the stone gargoyles of the tower is similar to the Broken Tower of Winterfell. My guess is that the great stone beast in Dany's prophecy is Jon's first dragon flight.

Perhaps the metaphor is that Jon is a dragon and wolf gargoyle at the top of the tower, who will come to life. Jon might leap from the Broken Tower onto a dragon, with Longclaw in his hand. The shadow/fire to me sounds like Jon is the anti-Targ, because shadows are created by fire (waking the dragon), but also oppose fire (oppositional forces). This makes sense to me since Jon is described as a "shadow among shadows" and the "shadows coming to dance" implies Jon's role in Dance 2.0 and Varys' riddle, where power is actually a trick/shadow. Power is only real if men believe it is real. The shadows dancing is power/magic at war. The stone beast stirs when a sinister fire is lit (burning people alive) and he stirs with sword in hand.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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I looked to see if there was a thread about this, and didn't find one. I also didn't look very hard.

I think we were given here a big hint as to what Valyrian steel is made out of;

"The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it."
"Dragonsteel?" Jon frowned. "Valyrian steel?" (Sam I, AFfC 5)

I think there is dragonbone in Valyrian steel.

Dragonbone is black because of its high iron content, the book told him. It is strong as steel, yet lighter and far more flexible, and of course utterly impervious to fire. Dragonbone bows are greatly prized by the Dothraki, and small wonder. An archer so armed can outrange any wooden bow. (Tyrion II, AGoT 13)  

There's a high iron content in dragonbone, something the Others allegedly hate, according to Old Nan's stories (which makes me wonder what kind of swords they have in the lower levels of the crypts at Winterfell)

We are told repeatedly that Valyrian steel is lighter than a regular sword. If the steel is forged with dragonbone, then not only would it give it its lightness, but also its color. 

And we know that Valyrian steel is impervious to fire. We have seen this in FaB with Blackfyre after it was put in Aegon's pyre.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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27 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I looked to see if there was a thread about this, and didn't find one. I also didn't look very hard.

I think we were given here a big hint as to what Valyrian steel is made out of;

"The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it."
"Dragonsteel?" Jon frowned. "Valyrian steel?" (Sam I, AFfC 5)

I think there is dragonbone in Valyrian steel.

Dragonbone is black because of its high iron content, the book told him. It is strong as steel, yet lighter and far more flexible, and of course utterly impervious to fire. Dragonbone bows are greatly prized by the Dothraki, and small wonder. An archer so armed can outrange any wooden bow. (Tyrion II, AGoT 13)  

There's a high iron content in dragonbone, something the Others allegedly hate, according to Old Nan's stories (which makes me wonder what kind of swords they have in the lower levels of the crypts at Winterfell)

We are told repeatedly that Valyrian steel is lighter than a regular sword. If the steel is forged with dragonbone, then not only would it give it its lightness, but also its color. 

And we know that Valyrian steel is impervious to fire. We have seen this in FaB with Blackfyre after it was put in Aegon's pyre.

I wonder now if Dragonbone bows give some magical properties to the arrow they fire

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

I wonder now if Dragonbone bows give some magical properties to the arrow they fire

They wouldn't give the arrow magical property. It's about flexibility and range and we are told that dragonbones are the best ones for that, followed by bows made from goldenheart.

A bow made out of that in the hands of archers like Anguy or Ulmer of the Kingswood would be sort of awesome.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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An observation: both Robb Rives and Aly Blackwood are great archers, so maybe it's a thing for House Blackwood and it occured to me that that's why Bloodraven was also an archer.

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9 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

@Seams

You may want to look at the tale bluebeard and the words “bluebeard” and bluebearding.

The man who married many times and forbade his new wife to look in a room where he had hidden the bodies of the previous women? Do you think that story relates to ASOIAF in some way?

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2 hours ago, Seams said:

The man who married many times and forbade his new wife to look in a room where he had hidden the bodies of the previous women? Do you think that story relates to ASOIAF in some way?

I've read your post on blue beard, blue bard and blue bardings and Daario ade me think of the bluebeard; a bluebearded man violent and lustful, with his wanton swords, he even kills his fellow captains to get in bed with Danaerys. Daario at least some parts of Daario may be inspired by this.

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New thought to me, anyways:

Tyrion lost his nose in order to resemble the Sphinx in Egypt.

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"Emmett, find some armor for him. I want him in steel, not old bones."

Once clad in mail and plate, the Lord of Bones seemed to stand a little straighter. He seemed taller too, his shoulders thicker and more powerful than Jon would have thought. It's the armor, not the man, he told himself. Even Sam could appear almost formidable, clad head to heel in Donal Noye's steel.''- Jon VII, ADWD
 
Jon thinks its the armor but he may appear taller and with wider shoulders due to the spell being weakened by Mance taking off the bones to put on the armor. A later description of Mance in Melisandre's chapter:
 
''But the widow's peak dissolved. The brown mustache, the knobby chin, the sallow yellowed flesh and small dark eyes, all melted. Grey fingers crept through long brown hair. Laugh lines appeared at the corners of his mouth. All at once he was bigger than before, broader in the chest and shoulders, long-legged and lean, his face clean-shaved and windburnt.''

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2 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

"Emmett, find some armor for him. I want him in steel, not old bones."

Once clad in mail and plate, the Lord of Bones seemed to stand a little straighter. He seemed taller too, his shoulders thicker and more powerful than Jon would have thought. It's the armor, not the man, he told himself. Even Sam could appear almost formidable, clad head to heel in Donal Noye's steel.''- Jon VII, ADWD
 
Jon thinks its the armor but he may appear taller and with wider shoulders due to the spell being weakened by Mance taking off the bones to put on the armor. A later description of Mance in Melisandre's chapter:
 
''But the widow's peak dissolved. The brown mustache, the knobby chin, the sallow yellowed flesh and small dark eyes, all melted. Grey fingers crept through long brown hair. Laugh lines appeared at the corners of his mouth. All at once he was bigger than before, broader in the chest and shoulders, long-legged and lean, his face clean-shaved and windburnt.''

I always thought that the spell weakens because jon is paying a lot of atention to mance at the time because they are going to fight.

If I am not mistaken it was listed that one of the flaws of glamours is that perceptive people can see flaws in them.

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Jon is defending the realm, and Mance uses a turtle to attack the wall. There is lots of detail to this attack and how the Watch has to defend against it. Then in the next Dany chapter she's talking about her own attack on Meereen using a similar turtle/battering ram design. Mance's is covered in fur, Dany's is covered in horsehair. To me this is just another example of Jon and Dany as foils.

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Jeyne Poole got married about halfway into adwd (8 chapters before Aryas 1st) so when Arya killed Dareon she, unknown to her, was doing so as Lady of Winterfell, which would be one of her responsibilities

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