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Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn

Wow, I never noticed that v.17

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7 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Also, a black dragon cast into the water washes up red with rust. Could a red dragon wash up only to be discovered to really be black later? (Aegon pretending to be one thing, revealed later to be another)

Yes. A birthmark for example.

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1 hour ago, dmfn said:

Also, a black dragon cast into the water washes up red with rust. Could a red dragon wash up only to be discovered to really be black later? (Aegon pretending to be one thing, revealed later to be another)

I did say making abstraction of this. I know that Aegon/(f)Aegon is the prevalent speculation with the red head that was a black head turning up to be a black head who pretends to be a red head.

Symbolically speaking, I think there's a hell of a lot more going on than the speculation on the Blackfyre Conspiracy. 

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2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

I did say making abstraction of this. I know that Aegon/(f)Aegon is the prevalent speculation with the red head that was a black head turning up to be a black head who pretends to be a red head.

Symbolically speaking, I think there's a hell of a lot more going on than the speculation on the Blackfyre Conspiracy. 

But the Blackfyre dragon is black, and the Targaryen dragon is red on their respectives coats of arms. This color changing sign from black to red would imply the opposite view of Aegon, right? An assumed fake (black dragon) turning red (Targaryen). 

Or something... doesn't seem like 'rusted' is an ideal state, though. 

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On 7/13/2018 at 2:36 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Next up on Stark wannabes; Roose and the Boltons.

@The Fattest Leech I have a feeling you'll like this one.

We all know of Boltons of old wearing the skins of Starks and we know wearing another's skin, makes you become that person/animal such as with the skinchangers, so I'll jump straight to Roose.

This isn't much by itself but it'a fuel enough for some more thought and research.

Miller's Wife

 

Alys Karstark who looks just like your average Stark

 

We never get to know anything about the facial features of Ramsay's mother, but... Roose's eyes are almost colorless whereas Ramsay's are dirty ice, which makes me think more of the grey eyes we see with many characters ,including Starks, than Roose's eyes.

Just like LF, who especially wanted to be the Ned, Boltons want to be Starks and Roose is no exception. 

Oh and a small bonus:

Dacey Mormont

We have our fair share of long-legged characters to be sure, but very few characters have both long legs and a long face and most of them are either of Stark blood for certain(Starks and Karstarks) or are hinted at it(Wayns with the horse face and a former Waynwood marrying a stark granddaughter.)

I do love this. Just bookmarking this because I have a pot that is sitting perilously close to the edge of a shelf and a cat on the other side. Just need to check dates.

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8 hours ago, dmfn said:

But the Blackfyre dragon is black, and the Targaryen dragon is red on their respectives coats of arms. This color changing sign from black to red would imply the opposite view of Aegon, right? An assumed fake (black dragon) turning red (Targaryen). 

Or something... doesn't seem like 'rusted' is an ideal state, though. 

But my original post was not about this. I am not arguing anything about the Blackfyre Conspiracy or that Aegon is real or fake. It was about what washed up at Quiet Isle, the broken three heads of the dragons in the form of a dragon's head that had rusted and in the form of Rhaegar's 6 rubies. 

The black three heads were torn to pieces by Lord Darry during or after the First Blackfyre Rebellion that saw Daemon (a would-be usurper) and his sons Aegon and Aemon die during the battle of the Redgrass Field. 

And the three-headed dragon wrought in rubies on Rhaegar's armor was broken apart when Robert (a would-be usurper) felled him with his hammer. 

The story of the black dragon and the red dragon is the same. What happened during the Battle of Redgrass Field and the Battle of the Trident is the same, but the script is flipped in favor of the usurper this time. 

There is a theme and symbolism running through the head of the dragon that washed up on Quiet Isle and Rhaegar's rubies that washed up there as well. 

The black dragon turning into a red dragon may be more than a Blackfyre masquerading as a Targaryen. Dany and Jon (when RLJ is revealed) and Aegon have the same Targaryen ancestor. 

Don't take this the wrong way (because it's not you and just something that I find annoying generally speaking), but it's replies like these that make it difficult to post something different.  

Edited by Widow's Watch

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5 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

But my original post was not about this. I am not arguing anything about the Blackfyre Conspiracy or that Aegon is real or fake. It was about what washed up at Quiet Isle, the broken three heads of the dragons in the form of a dragon's head that had rusted and in the form of Rhaegar's 6 rubies. 

The black three heads were torn to pieces by Lord Darry during or after the First Blackfyre Rebellion that saw Daemon (a would-be usurper) and his sons Aegon and Aemon die during the battle of the Redgrass Field. 

And the three-headed dragon wrought in rubies on Rhaegar's armor was broken apart when Robert (a would-be usurper) felled him with his hammer. 

The story of the black dragon and the red dragon is the same. What happened during the Battle of Redgrass Field and the Battle of the Trident is the same, but the script is flipped in favor of the usurper this time. 

There is a theme and symbolism running through the head of the dragon that washed up on Quiet Isle and Rhaegar's rubies that washed up there as well. 

The black dragon turning into a red dragon may be more than a Blackfyre masquerading as a Targaryen. Dany and Jon (when RLJ is revealed) and Aegon have the same Targaryen ancestor. 

Don't take this the wrong way (because it's not you and just something that I find annoying generally speaking), but it's replies like these that make it difficult to post something different.  

Different than R+L=J? LOL 

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On people with good memory

 

Quote

Why do you think I run south with Stiv and Hali and the rest of them fools? Mance thinks he'll fight, the brave sweet stubborn man, like the white walkers were no more than rangers, but what does he know? He can call himself King-beyond-the-Wall all he likes, but he's still just another old black crow who flew down from the Shadow Tower. He's never tasted winter. I was born up there, child, like my mother and her mother before her and her mother before her, born of the FreeFolk. We remember." 

 

Wildlings remember the Winter.

 

Quote

 

"He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold."

Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The northremembers."

My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter … but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home."

 

"House Ryswell too," said Roger Ryswell.

"Even Dustins out of Barrowton." Lady Dustin parted her lips in a thin, feral smile. "The north remembers, Frey."

Aenys Frey's mouth quivered with outrage. "Stark dishonored us. That is what you northmen had best remember."

The Winds of Winter - Theon I

"Wyman Manderly." The king's mouth twisted in contempt. "Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse. Too fat to come to me, yet he comes to Winterfell. Too fat to bend the knee and swear me his sword, yet now he wields that sword for Bolton. I sent my Onion Lord to treat with him, and Lord Too-Fat butchered him and mounted his head and hands on the walls of White Harbor for the Freys to gloat over. And the Freys... has the Red Wedding been forgotten?"

"The north remembers. The Red Wedding, Lady Hornwood's fingers, the sack of Winterfell, Deepwood Motte and Torrhen's Square, they remember all of it." Bran and Rickon. They were only miller's boys. "Frey and Manderly will never combine their strengths. They will come for you, but separately. Lord Ramsay will not be far behind them. He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek." Theon's laugh was half a titter, half a whimper. "Lord Ramsay is the one Your Grace should fear."

 

Northman remembers treachery, betrayal, wrongs done to them.

Words of House Royce is We Remember. What do they remember?

 

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It was a Stark who built the Storm's End for sure!

Quote

At Melisandre's urging, he had dragged the Seven from their sept at Dragonstone and burned them before the castle gates, and later he had burned the godswood at Storm's End as well, even the heart tree, a huge white weirwood with a solemn face.

 

Also which Stark is this?

Quote

All wildling villages looked much alike, though. A huge weirwood grew in the center of this one . . . but a white tree did not mean Whitetree, necessarily. Hadn't the weirwood at Whitetree been bigger than this one? Maybe he was remembering it wrong. The face carved into the bone pale trunk was long and sad; red tears of dried sap leaked from its eyes. Was that how it looked when we came north? Sam couldn't recall.

 

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8 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I do love this. Just bookmarking this because I have a pot that is sitting perilously close to the edge of a shelf and a cat on the other side. Just need to check dates.

You may also love my post on Farwynd and Stark connection a few pages ago. I'd point towards it but I'm on phone and search is a real pain with it.

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Oh how expertly people adopt tales to their cultures and how masterfully tales adapt themselves to the new and foreign lands and places they are introduced to.

Quote

According to these tales, the return of the sun came only when a hero convinced Mother Rhoyne's many children—lesser gods such as the Crab King and the Old Man of the River—to put aside their bickering and join together to sing a secret song that brought back the day.

Children of RHOYNE and not FOREST. Those who sing the song of RIVER and not EARTH.

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@The Fattest Leech

You may also like this; In another thread I somewhat connected house Crane to Starks.

Cranes are long-legged, long-necked birds. Starks are long-legged and long-faced. Could a neck be considered part of one's, especially a bird's face?

Cranes' sigil is five golden cranes on a LIGHT BLUE field and their founder is ROSE of RED lake.

Red lake was BLUE lake until Brandon of the Bloody Blade slayed the children there.

Winter roses associated with Stark women is Light Blue.

 

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7 hours ago, dmfn said:

Different than R+L=J? LOL 

Good grief. Don't be like that. Doesn't matter how much I believe RLJ is the thing, it's still a theory until a character in the books comes out and says it. And with that, I'm done replying to you. Thanks!

Edited by Widow's Watch

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7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Snip*

Words of House Royce is We Remember. What do they remember?

 

Must be related to their First Men heritage, with their rune-spangled bannens and old style copper disc armor. 

Interestingly enough, they also formerly possessed a Valyrian sword that is now lost, Lamentation.

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10 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Northman remembers treachery, betrayal, wrongs done to them.

Words of House Royce is We Remember. What do they remember?

I think the Royces are in a pivotal role in the books. They have already been present at key turning points: Ser Waymar is the first high-born person to die; Ser Robar is present when Robert is gravely wounded by the boar; at the scene of Renly's death, Robar allows Catelyn and Brienne to escape and is then killed by Ser Loras; we now have Alayne / Sansa in the midst of two Royce houses in the Vale, with Littlefinger and Yohn Royce playing tug-of-war over Harrold Hardyng, the Arryn heir after Sweetrobin.

Yohn's remaining heir is Andar and Nestor's heir is Randa. (For what it's worth, Ander is the German word for "other". Don't know if that's a deliberate allusion by GRRM.)

My intuition is telling me that the complicated situation with the main branch and the cadet branch of the Royce houses is like the red apple and green apple Fossoway houses. There is some symbolism that might link the Fossoways and Royces, mostly having to do with Robar being Renly's "red" guard in the Rainbow Guard and the link between members of the Rainbow Guard and fruits (Crane to plums, Emmon Cuy to lemons). Although I may be wrong about that. At any rate, Royces and/or Fossoways seem to be needed for someone to become king. (The missing sword, Lamentation, is probably also part of the fruit symbolism and the path to the Iron Throne.) 

As for the "remember" motif, I suspect there is a yin / yang symbolism in the book between forgetting and remembering. "Forget" symbolism could be embodied in forges or in frog eaters.

Edited by Seams

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On 8/1/2018 at 5:13 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

I do love this. Just bookmarking this because I have a pot that is sitting perilously close to the edge of a shelf and a cat on the other side. Just need to check dates.

Is it a black tom with a torn ear? 

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On 8/1/2018 at 6:25 PM, Widow's Watch said:

But my original post was not about this. I am not arguing anything about the Blackfyre Conspiracy or that Aegon is real or fake. It was about what washed up at Quiet Isle, the broken three heads of the dragons in the form of a dragon's head that had rusted and in the form of Rhaegar's 6 rubies. 

The black three heads were torn to pieces by Lord Darry during or after the First Blackfyre Rebellion that saw Daemon (a would-be usurper) and his sons Aegon and Aemon die during the battle of the Redgrass Field. 

And the three-headed dragon wrought in rubies on Rhaegar's armor was broken apart when Robert (a would-be usurper) felled him with his hammer. 

The story of the black dragon and the red dragon is the same. What happened during the Battle of Redgrass Field and the Battle of the Trident is the same, but the script is flipped in favor of the usurper this time. 

There is a theme and symbolism running through the head of the dragon that washed up on Quiet Isle and Rhaegar's rubies that washed up there as well. 

The black dragon turning into a red dragon may be more than a Blackfyre masquerading as a Targaryen. Dany and Jon (when RLJ is revealed) and Aegon have the same Targaryen ancestor. 

Don't take this the wrong way (because it's not you and just something that I find annoying generally speaking), but it's replies like these that make it difficult to post something different.  

Did all three heads wash up on the Quiet Isle? 

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On 8/2/2018 at 2:47 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Oh how expertly people adopt tales to their cultures and how masterfully tales adapt themselves to the new and foreign lands and places they are introduced to.

Children of RHOYNE and not FOREST. Those who sing the song of RIVER and not EARTH.

Note that the Grey King fought the Storm God. This echoes Bloodraven’s fight against the Others, the Lord of Light’s eternal struggle with the Great Other, and the Old Man of the River's fight against the Crab King. 

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2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Is it a black tom with a torn ear? 

How did you know? :blink:

And then he went and walked across my parchment and screwed up all of the dates. Crackpot averted. :crying:

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59 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Did all three heads wash up on the Quiet Isle? 

I know you already know the answer to that. It's just the one.  

But a black three-headed dragon broken into three is the number of blackfyres who died during the 1st Blackfyre Rebellion. Daemon and his twin sons, Aegon (his heir) and Aemon. 

The 6 rubies that washed up on Quiet Isle broke off from the three heads of the dragons. Rhaegar died on the Trident and two of his children died. Rhaenys and his eldest son and heir, Aegon. There are those who are certain that Jon's Targaryen name will turn out to be Aemon and Jon isn't doing so hot right now. For me, it gives a different perspective on who the Rhaegar's heads of the dragons were supposed to be.

Varys's Aegon is both. He is a Targaryen by blood and a Blackfyre by name. He is black and red. 

This is all part of a much larger speculation that goes through the parallels between the Battle of Redgrass Field and what we know of the Battle of the Trident.

Edited by Widow's Watch

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4 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

I know you already know the answer to that. It's just the one.  

 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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