What if stark had a requirement for becoming hand

[Alex Gu]

Would robert give eddard stark the power to dismiss or/and arrest anyone he suspected of corruption,misuse of power and disloyalty as well as the power  to change the menbership of the small council exept for robert brothers to clean house in kings landing exept for robert brothers who keep their positions if eddard stark said that he wont accept becoming hand without this?

[Bernie Mac]

Presumably he'd have those powers as Hand, but he'd still need to inform the king first for high ranking changes and discuss it with him. 

Ned's biggest problem is that he is an outsider and running the North is vastly alien to running King's Landing. 

Wanting to replace Littlefinger or Varys is fine if he has qualified replacements, which Ned would take time to find. Making wholesale changes to early would be a disaster. 

[LindsayLohan]

I'm pretty sure the Hand already has those powers.  From Eddard's very first Small Council meeting:

“You are the King’s Hand,” Varys said. “We serve at your pleasure, Lord Stark.”

And again, when Tywin tasks Tyrion to go to King's Landing and serve as Hand in Tywin's stead, Tywin gives Tyrion very specific instructions about the membership of the council:

“Rule,” his father said curtly
Tyrion hooted with laughter. “My sweet sister might have a word or two to say about that!”
“Let her say what she likes. Her son needs to be taken in hand before he ruins us all. I blame those jackanapes on the council-our friend Petyr, the venerable Grand Maester, and that cockless wonder Lord Varys. What sort of counsel are they giving Joffrey when he lurches from one folly to the next?...If Cersei cannot curb the boy, you must. And if these councillors are playing us false...”
Tyrion knew. “Spikes,” he sighed. “Heads. Walls.”
“I see you have taken a few lessons from me.”

It seems that the Hand has broad discretion in the makeup of the council.  Tyrion would go on to remove Pycelle from the Council, and although the Citadel overrules Tyrion on stripping Pycelle the title of Grand Maester, Tyrion's decision to remove Pycelle from the council stands.

 

[Lord Lannister]

Robert largely -did- leave the governing of the realm to his hand except when he had a pet project like a tournament or murdering a pregnant girl. The small council seemed to be set in stone though, Stannis tried getting Robert to dismiss some of the corrupt members with little result.

[Frey Kings]

9 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Presumably he'd have those powers as Hand, but he'd still need to inform the king first for high ranking changes and discuss it with him. 

Ned's biggest problem is that he is an outsider and running the North is vastly alien to running King's Landing. 

Wanting to replace Littlefinger or Varys is fine if he has qualified replacements, which Ned would take time to find. Making wholesale changes to early would be a disaster. 

Ned had no business ruling the North either

 

 

 

 

go figure

[Canon Claude]

On 6/20/2018 at 10:15 AM, Frey Kings said:

Ned had no business ruling the North either

 

 

 

 

go figure

What does that mean? Ned’s always been praised for his rule of the North, they went to war three times for him, and it seems like half the North’s remaining forces are going to war for his memory. He was very much beloved by his people, which makes me think he was doing something right.

[Frey Kings]

14 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

What does that mean? Ned’s always been praised for his rule of the North, they went to war three times for him, and it seems like half the North’s remaining forces are going to war for his memory. He was very much beloved by his people, which makes me think he was doing something right.

Northern people are very simple. If you have the name Stark and weren't a complete Jerk Off you already won most if not all of them over.  Ned is just a narrow headed person and too incompetent to understand the logistics of  actually ruling over something of value. 

[Corvo the Crow]

15 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

What does that mean? Ned’s always been praised for his rule of the North, they went to war three times for him, and it seems like half the North’s remaining forces are going to war for his memory. He was very much beloved by his people, which makes me think he was doing something right.

He's the Frey Troll. See some of his other posts and you'll understand.

[Corvo the Crow]

18 minutes ago, Frey Kings said:

Northern people are very simple. If you have the name Stark and weren't a complete Jerk Off you already won most if not all of them over.  Ned is just a narrow headed person and too incompetent to understand the logistics of  actually ruling over something of value. 

He's the ideal guy to rule over Frey people then, it seems. Walder is a bad ruler for Frey, he cares too much for people of such low value for a living being, let alone a human being. Ned should have married a lowly Frey bride and took over the Freys, leaving Benjen to rule the valuable people of the North, with Walder as his advisor. Walder would then get a northerner bride and take her family name. He would perhaps get some offspring who are decent human beings that deserve affection, and not some lowlife scum of the earth( and river) bridge trolls.

[Bernie Mac]

17 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

What does that mean? Ned’s always been praised for his rule of the North, they went to war three times for him,

That is certainly true, Ned was a fine ruler of the North both in peace and in war, though it should be noted they didn't have much choice about going to war.  

17 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

 

and it seems like half the North’s remaining forces are going to war for his memory.

That is not actually true.  We hear a whole host of reasons from the Mountain Clans, including doing it for Ned's little girl (who is named after the mountain clan mother of Ned), revenge on the Boltons and Freys for the Red Wedding, the loss of Wintertown - a place where many a clan member would go to survive winter and most notably the fact that many are not going to survive the winter, many are choosing to sacrifice themselves so there will be more food for others. 

Also it is not the half the North, it is the Northen Mountain Clans, we've yet to see any other House use 'Ned's girl' as a means to go to war. What we will probably find is that Ramsay's treatment of (f)Arya will be a snapping point, no Northern lord is going to want this psychopath as the heir to the Warden title. 

 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

6 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Also it is not the half the North, it is the Northen Mountain Clans, we've yet to see any other House use 'Ned's girl' as a means to go to war. What we will probably find is that Ramsay's treatment of (f)Arya will be a snapping point, no Northern lord is going to want this psychopath as the heir to the Warden title. 

Roose is plain stupid if he thinks Bolton name will even continue to exist after Ramsay takes over. People may not be acting now out of fear of Roose but the second he dies Ramsay will die a long horrible death at the hand of Northmen. I can imagine entrails hanging from Weirwood branches used as a rope to hung Ramsay while he is still alive.

Anyways, I imagine Roose is somewhat like Tywin in regards to family and house. This is why I believe he sends out Ramsay to attack Stannis despite bad weather. Ramsay is not only a threat to his Freylings he hope to have a but also to the continued existence of Boltons as a house.

Being one for publicity(peaceful land quite people) he can't dispose of him in anyway that would make people suspect of kinslaying. Bolton name is tainted enough without adding kinslaying to it. Sending him off to battle in bad weather against a proven commander is as good a way as it gets to dispose of an unwanted relative.

 

[Bernie Mac]

29 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Roose is plain stupid if he thinks Bolton name will even continue to exist after Ramsay takes over.

Either he does not car, he has plans to remove Ramsay at some point, or possibly that Ramay being removed will not mean the end of House Bolton. Roose has positioned Ramsay to rule Winterfell, that will provide some distance between him and the Dreadfort and leave other Boltons, maybe even Fat Walda's brood, to secure the loyalties of the vassals of the Dreaddfort. 

Though it should be said, his House has been around for thousands of years and currently is in a very strong position, it is easy to see why many don't assume their Houses will cease to exist because of their actions. 

29 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 

People may not be acting now out of fear of Roose but the second he dies Ramsay will die a long horrible death at the hand of Northmen. I can imagine entrails hanging from Weirwood branches used as a rope to hung Ramsay while he is still alive.

I'd imagine so as well. 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

5 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Either he does not car, he has plans to remove Ramsay at some point, or possibly that Ramay being removed will not mean the end of House Bolton. Roose has positioned Ramsay to rule Winterfell, that will provide some distance between him and the Dreadfort and leave other Boltons, maybe even Fat Walda's brood, to secure the loyalties of the vassals of the Dreaddfort. 

Roose likely plans to remove Ramsey at some point. Roose has encircled Ramsey with men loyal to Roose and has made clear to Theon he finds the idea of Ramsey running the north to be laughable. 

And with good reason. Ramsey is a psychopathic, bastard who has a peasant mother infamous for brutally torturing, and marrying a woman who was supposed to be social superior. And he's rumoured to have murdered his-trueborn half brother.He's the perfect example of all the prejudices nobility would have against bastards. He's cruel, deceitful, envious of his betters, etc. The peasant background would in it self make Ramsey seen unlikely to hold the north-many lords could not see someone like him as a social peer anymore than they could see  Davos, or Bronn as one. 

Roose, thinks Ramsey should have been content being a farmer, and many lords would share that sentiment. There's a natural order to things, to which does not permit someone of Ramsey type to be overlord of anything.

But, for the time being, Roose needs Ramsey to father a couple heirs upon Jeyne Poole.

Ramsey can die when Roose says so-or if Roose wishes to avoid the son of philicide, cripple Ramsey and throw the bastard into a cell for the remainder of his days.

He's not going to let Ramsy murder his actual legacy. 

[Corvo the Crow]

51 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

oose likely plans to remove Ramsey at some point. Roose has encircled Ramsey with men loyal to Roose and has made clear to Theon he finds the idea of Ramsey running the north to be laughable. 

This is why I think he has sent Ramsay against Stannis. He Has made it clear to Theon how terrible Ramsay is in martial matters. He sent him off against a force ten times his number with a proven commander. 

He sent Freys and Manderly as well but sent them piecemeal.

Sending Freys, his only loyal supporters is a bad move but what if it's a planned move? Freys have more than twice the number of Manderly+Ransay. Ramsay and Wyman are the biggest threat to him, and therefore to Freys, in the long run.

[Varysblackfyre321]

21 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

This is why I think he has sent Ramsay against Stannis. He Has made it clear to Theon how terrible Ramsay is in martial matters. He sent him off against a force ten times his number with a proven commander. 

He sent Freys and Manderly as well but sent them piecemeal.

Sending Freys, his only loyal supporters is a bad move but what if it's a planned move? Freys have more than twice the number of Manderly+Ransay. Ramsay and Wyman are the biggest threat to him in the long run.

I find that unlikely. He still very much needs Ramsey to sire an heir to Winterfell on Jeyne Poole. After 3 or so children are born or Jeyne dies in childbirth, then Roose would have considered doing away with Ramsey. Roose has simply invested to much in Ramsey now for Roose to simply throw him away before getting the prize. Then again, it's possible he's decided the negative PR from Ramsey over eclipses the positive PR of having sire an heir from Eddard Stark's daughter. 

I'm honestly curious to see Ramsey would learn to temper himself again-like he did in ACOK with Theon. He'd grown too comfortable. 

[Frey Kings]

11 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

He's the ideal guy to rule over Frey people then, it seems. Walder is a bad ruler for Frey, he cares too much for people of such low value for a living being, let alone a human being. Ned should have married a lowly Frey bride and took over the Freys, leaving Benjen to rule the valuable people of the North, with Walder as his advisor. Walder would then get a northerner bride and take her family name. He would perhaps get some offspring who are decent human beings that deserve affection, and not some lowlife scum of the earth( and river) bridge trolls.

The Night's King was mostly a Stark

Stark Kings have put to the sword hundreds of houses to be Kings in the North for thousands of years. 

The Freys started from the bottom, built a toll bridge, became  top 10 richest house in just 600 years and most of these 'great houses' have resented them for it

The Freys don't go running off to wars because someone got their head chopped off for treason or if some girl ran off with another man and started a nationwide rebellion which lead to nationwide death & destruction

The Freys didn't sack and loot the westerlands

 

A lot of good men died because of the actions of the Starks for the past decades

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I find that unlikely. He still very much needs Ramsey to sire an heir to Winterfell on Jeyne Poole. After 3 or so children are born or Jeyne dies in childbirth, then Roose would have considered doing away with Ramsey. Roose has simply invested to much in Ramsey now for Roose to simply throw him away before getting the prize. Then again, it's possible he's decided the negative PR from Ramsey over eclipses the positive PR of having sire an heir from Eddard Stark's daughter. 

I'm honestly curious to see Ramsey would learn to temper himself again-like he did in ACOK with Theon. He'd grown too comfortable. 

Is it though? Ramsay fathering heirs also bring too many other problems for Walda's line.

For starters there are 2(3) castles now and all would be Ramsay's since he is Roose's eldest and Ramsay's not like to share them with rivals if Roose dies earlier than he hoped.

Worst of all, Ramsay's line has a claim to the name Stark. Who is to say they won't decide to take on the Stark name and eradicate Boltons after learning the events of WoT5K and Ramsay's treatment of their Stark mother/grandmother? Franklyn Flowers' father is a Fossoway and he's bent on killing them all so it is a possibility.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Frey Kings said:

The Night's King was mostly a Stark

Stark Kings have put to the sword hundreds of houses to be Kings in the North for thousands of years. 

The Freys started from the bottom, built a toll bridge, became  top 10 richest house in just 600 years and most of these 'great houses' have resented them for it

The Freys don't go running off to wars because someone got their head chopped off for treason or if some girl ran off with another man and started a nationwide rebellion which lead to nationwide death & destruction

The Freys didn't sack and loot the westerlands

 

A lot of good men died because of the actions of the Starks for the past decades

No they only mass slaughter thousands when one of their worthless ilk is turned down for a marriage. Having Freys under your roof is so bad Walder has to pay their weight in gold to get rid of his daughters and even then most don't fall for that trap.

[Frey Kings]

20 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

No they only mass slaughter thousands when one of their worthless ilk is turned down for a marriage. Having Freys under your roof is so bad Walder has to pay their weight in gold to get rid of his daughters and even then most don't fall for that trap.

Only if the Tullys and the Starks didn't treat them so badly tsk tsk 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Worst of all, Ramsay's line has a claim to the name Stark. Who is to say they won't decide to take on the Stark name and eradicate Boltons after learning the events of WoT5K and Ramsay's treatment of their Stark mother/grandmother? Franklyn Flowers' father is a Fossoway and he's bent on killing them all so it is a possibility.

Not really. Ramsey's line would have no more claim to the stark name Anymore than the Baratheons have claim to the name Targyen or Robb had claim to the name Tully.  As soon as Ramsey would marry and bed Arya she would become a Bolton.   It makes no real sense for Ramsey' line to get so horrified at what their anchestore did that they decide to enact vegence on their cousins. It'd more plausible(although still ludicrous),  for them to commit group suicide over it. Franklyn is a bastard, the product of rape by a Fossoway. Doubtless he'd hear many words in his ear over his life on the injustice of it from his mother or her relatives who raised him making it reasonable to dislike house Fossoway as a whole and enjoy their suffering. 

Ramsey's line would be raised Bolton. Their core alliegence would be geared toward house Bolton since they're birth, not Stark. They'd have no desire to their house dead, over this. If they're decent they wouldn't be proud of it but not commit kinslaying over this, especially kinslaying that doesn't make a lick of sense. 

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Is it though? Ramsay fathering heirs also bring too many other problems for Walda's line.

For starters there are 2(3) castles now and all would be Ramsay's since he is Roose's eldest and Ramsay's not like to share them with rivals if Roose dies earlier than he hoped.

 

Roose would likely name the first son  of Walda his heir, the one to succeed Roose in his position in warden and lord paramount. With that in mind, it'd fairly likely he'd allow his relatives to have WF and have the dreadfort the new home of the overlord of the north.  

May cause stir down the line, but family in fighting is something every major house would have experienced in its history anyway.