Was it Cersei or Aerys?

[Angel Eyes]

So I’m confused. Did Cersei persuade Jaime to become a Kingsguard so she could keep him or did Aerys make him a Kingsguard to spite Tywin? 

[Bernie Mac]

28 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So I’m confused. Did Cersei persuade Jaime to become a Kingsguard so she could keep him or did Aerys make him a Kingsguard to spite Tywin? 

Both, they are not mutually exclusive. Cersei gave Jaime the idea and once it became apparent that Jaime was interested Aerys saw the benefit it could have for him. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I don't think Cersei nor Aerys II wanted Jaime to marry Lysa Tully, though for different reasons.

[Lord Lannister]

This actually always seemed odd to me. Certainly Cersei was one of the ladies of the court then, but other than being Tywin's daughter, she had no real influence. Sometimes I do wonder if Cersei just overheard the plan to name Jaime to the kingsguard, just as she overheard of his betrothal to Lysa Tully. That convenient bit of information ahead of time would serve to let her sink her claws into him so to speak.

[Ser Leftwich]

It is unlikely that Cersei could have exerted any influence at all on Aerys. +1 to the idea that she heard the idea around court and just said it was her to Jaime.  

[Dofs]

Cersei probably told Aerys about this and Aerys went like "ooooohhhh".

[kissdbyfire]

Cersei is not stupid. Well, she can be but she's not dumb nor blind. Aerys' descent into madness must have been pretty obvious by then. He is described as paranoid, fearful, etc. I think Cersei wouldn't have missed that. Come on, it's "court intrigue 101"... how hard would it have been to whisper something in the right ears? Not too hard imo. 

Of course, it's entirely possible that she had no part in it whatsoever or that she just overheard it as @Lord Lannister suggested a few posts up. But I think she played a more active part. I would very much like to get all the details at some point.  

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:07 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So I’m confused. Did Cersei persuade Jaime to become a Kingsguard so she could keep him or did Aerys make him a Kingsguard to spite Tywin? 

BOTH .

[Danelle]

Well the facts are:

Aerys and Tywin had a complicated relationship. The both loved the same woman, but it was Tywin who married her. Aerys married his sister, because he was told to do so.

Unlike Tywin, Aerys was in an unhappy marriage. The fact that poor Rhaella had several miscarriages, only made things worse. Meanwhile Joanna gave birth to two healthy and gorgeous babies.

And what was Aerys's reaction?

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What Tywin Lannister made of this is not recorded, but in 266 AC, at Casterly Rock, Lady Joanna gave birth to a pair of twins, a girl and a boy, "healthy and beautiful, with hair like beaten gold." This birth only exacerbated the tension between Aerys II Targaryen and his Hand. "I appear to have married the wrong woman," His Grace was reported to have said, when informed of the happy event. Nonetheless, he sent each child its weight in gold as a nameday gift and commanded Tywin to bring them to court when they were old enough to travel. "And bring their mother, too, for it has been too long since I gazed upon that fair face," he insisted.

Later Joanna died while giving birth to Tyrion and both Aerys and Tywin mourned her. They both regarded Tyrion's birth as a punishment for Tywin's arrogance. Nevertheless Tywin's twins were gorgeous, healthy and hia pride and joy. While hoping to marry Cersei to Rhaeghar or Viserys, he arranged for Jaime to marry Lysa. 

While Jaime, still loved his sister, he expected to inherit the Rock. But Cersei, who wanted both Rhaegar and Jaime, had other plans.

 

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 But when he made a brief call at King's Landing on his way back to Casterly Rock, chiefly to see his sister, Cersei took him aside and whispered that Lord Tywin meant to marry him to Lysa Tully, had gone so far as to invite Lord Hoster to the city to discuss dower. But if Jaime took the white, he could be near her always. Old Ser Harlan Grandison had died in his sleep, as was only appropriate for one whose sigil was a sleeping lion. Aerys would want a young man to take his place, so why not a roaring lion in place of a sleepy one?
"Father will never consent," Jaime objected.
"The king won't ask him. And once it's done, Father can't object, not openly. Aerys had Ser Ilyn Payne's tongue torn out just for boasting that it was the Hand who truly ruled the Seven Kingdoms. The captain of the Hand's guard, and yet Father dared not try and stop it! He won't stop this, either."
"But," Jaime said, "there's Casterly Rock . . ."
"Is it a rock you want? Or me?"
He remembered that night as if it were yesterday. They spent it in an old inn on Eel Alley, well away from watchful eyes. Cersei had come to him dressed as a simple serving wench, which somehow excited him all the more. Jaime had never seen her more passionate. Every time he went to sleep, she woke him again. By morning Casterly Rock seemed a small price to pay to be near her always. He gave his consent, and Cersei promised to do the rest.

And then there is the very disturbing part of Aerys's attitude towards Jaime, soon after he joined the KG:

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"He'll win no glory here," the king had said. "He's mine now, not Tywin's. He'll serve as I see fit. I am the king. I rule, and he'll obey."

It is as if Aerys was trying to claim Jaime, the healthy, handsome, energetic son that he had always wanted, Joanna's boy. 

Even though Tywin, as Cersei predicted, did not prevent Jaime becoming a KG, he did resign and the consequences were bigger than anyone could have expected.

He was succeeded by men who were clearly unfit for the task and by the time RR begun, the Targaryens were exposed. Aerys's Hand at the time, proved quite ineffective.

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For years afterward, Jon Connington told himself that he was not to blame, that he had done all that any man could do. His soldiers searched every hole and hovel, he offered pardons and rewards, he took hostages and hung them in crow cages and swore that they would have neither food nor drink until Robert was delivered to him. All to no avail. "Tywin Lannister himself could have done no more," he had insisted one night to Blackheart, during his first year of exile.

"There is where you're wrong," Myles Toyne had replied. "Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all. When the fires guttered out and only ash and cinders remained, he would have sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon. Later, when Stark and Tully turned up with their host, he would have offered pardons to the both of them, and they would have accepted and turned for home with their tails between their legs."

There are many ways Jaime's appointment could have been arranged:

• Aerys might have planned this perhaps from the moment Tyrion was born, in an attempt to deprive Tywin from his perfect boy. If this is the case, then it is possible that Cersei overheard the plans and she merely persuaded her brother to join the KG.
• Cersei arranged everything. Once she got Jaime's consent, she likely hinted to Aerys, how strong and brave her brother is, and how he proved his swordsmanship while fighting the Smiling Knight. A brief inquiry  with Sir Arthur, would only confirm Cersei's claims and Aerys would be easily convinced to appoint Jaime.
• Varys could have also a part in the conspiracy. If Varys wanted to undermine the Targaryens, what better way than to have Aerys offend Tywin in an absolutely unforgiving manner?

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

Going back to the possibility of Cersei overhearing something prior to her convo w/ Jaime... why didn't she tell him then? It would be the logical thing to do, since it's unlikely that Jaime will oppose the idea. 

"I heard from X that Aerys is planning on naming you for the KG, so all we have to do is wait and we'll be together and father won't be able to make marriage plans for you". 

[punzerknacker]

I'm not convinced that Cersei would have the status at court to put any ideas into Aerys' head. At least nothing that goes beyond raving about her brother's qualities or casually dropping that he would be a great fit for the KG, but even then… who is Cersei at this point that Aerys would listen to her?

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, punzerknacker said:

I'm not convinced that Cersei would have the status at court to put any ideas into Aerys' head. At least nothing that goes beyond raving about her brother's qualities or casually dropping that he would be a great fit for the KG, but even then… who is Cersei at this point that Aerys would listen to her?

The thing is, she doesn't have to put ideas in Aerys' head, just in the right ears.