Petyr Baelish, Blackfyre heir?

[Pukisbaisals]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

His eyes are gray-green.

Petyr's eye color must be very important because it was mentioned many times. I found only two other cases when grey-green color was mentioned - when sea color was described and eyes of bastard of Driftmark.

Eyes of Aurane Waters could be also indirect reference to the sea - he is master of ships, pirate and his name is Waters. But maybe in this case relation is more direct - some kinship between Baelish and Aurane perhaps? There are more similarities between them.

Titan sigil could also refer to the sea or/and ships indirectly.  Titan of Braavos matches Greyiron (ancient kings of iron islands)  sigil with the head of sea king and Littlefinger also has a ship named Merling King.

[Pukisbaisals]

15 minutes ago, Megorova said:

After re-reading information about Harrenhal, and which Houses ruled it, I got an idea, that maybe Petyr is partially Whent. He and Catelyn Tully are third cousins.

Kinship between Petyr and Tully's wife Minissa could explain why Hoster Tully took Petyr as a ward. I think it is probably best explanation so far why lord paramount of Riverlands took charge over child of some poor landed knight from the Vale.

23 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Could be, that he participated only in Second, Third, and Fourth Rebellions. I got this idea, based on banner of House Whent - three rows of black bats, two bats, three bats, and four bats, nine in total. Maybe it's an encrypted hint, that House Whent supported Blackfyres in three Rebellions, from 2 to 4. 

I always thought that number of bats is connected to number of children or bastard children. Rose is Tyrell sigil, personal arms of second son Garlan bear two roses, personal arms of third son Loras - three roses. Personal arms of Maekar - fourth son - bear four dragons.  Maybe nine bats in Whent arms mean ninth child or ninth son of house Lothston (probably including bastards)?

[Seams]

1 hour ago, Pukisbaisals said:

Petyr's eye color must be very important because it was mentioned many times. I found only two other cases when grey-green color was mentioned - when sea color was described and eyes of bastard of Driftmark.

Eyes of Aurane Waters could be also indirect reference to the sea - he is master of ships, pirate and his name is Waters. But maybe in this case relation is more direct - some kinship between Baelish and Aurane perhaps? There are more similarities between them.

Titan sigil could also refer to the sea or/and ships indirectly.  Titan of Braavos matches Greyiron (ancient kings of iron islands)  sigil with the head of sea king and Littlefinger also has a ship named Merling King.

I did think Petyr could be a Velaryon descendant because of the common elements with Aurane Waters and because he supposedly controls a lot of the patronage jobs in King's Landing and we meet Rennifer Longwaters working in the dungeon at the Red Keep.

There is another grey/green character who seems to be a very good clue about Petyr and his strategy. Part of the Dunk & Egg set of clues:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Uthor_Underleaf

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, Pukisbaisals said:

Eyes of Aurane Waters could be also indirect reference to the sea - he is master of ships, pirate and his name is Waters. But maybe in this case relation is more direct - some kinship between Baelish and Aurane perhaps? There are more similarities between them.

Based on Aurane's behaviour, I was suspecting for a long time, that he is working for Varys, and he also has a drop of dragonblood (NOT only Velaryon, but also black dragon blood from either Blackfyres or descendants of Bittersteel)), though it's not obvious, what's his parentage may be.

Maybe that sellsword from Braavos, that was Petyr's great grandfather, had many children, so one of them was Petyr's grandfather, that became hedge knight, and one of his other children had a daughter, and that daughter became mistress of Lord Velaryon (father of Monford Velaryon).

So Petyr and Aurane are second cousins. Possibly.

[White Ravens]

I hope not.  Petyr Baelish is not presented in the books in a very positive light but one of the few admirable things he has going for himself is his rise to greatness by building himself up from his humble beginnings as the son of the smallest of small lords in the Fingers to a man of means and influence rising to Master of Coin for the king of the Seven Kingdoms and on to become the Lord Protector of the Trident, the Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Protector of the Eyrie and the Vale of Arryn.  He is perceived to be a man who has used only his wits and political guile to build his considerable wealth and power from almost nothing by playing the Game of Thrones extremely well.  It would be a shame to reveal that he was a "somebody" after all. 

[Springwatch]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:09 PM, Damon_Tor said:

Having Littlefinger's family come from Braavos is certainly an eyebrow-raising choice from the author, especially in a story where bloodlines and ancestry are apparently so important.

As a note, before I go into this, I don't put much weight into what I'm suggesting below, so read it with a grain of salt:

<snip>

I've suggested before that Littlefinger practices a form of "sex magic" like the Graces and the Red Priests seem to, using sex to initiate a psychic link. Baelish had a near-death experience when he was young, something that seems to be a requirement for the awakening of psychic powers, and it's worth noting that he had sex during the fevered recovery from his wound. Perhaps he's so adept at this sex magic that his brothel has become a sort of a "whore-net", his whores are like weirwoods, the johns like ravens, and himself in the middle like the three-eyed crow.

It does explain why he seems to be so adept at manipulating Tyrion in particular.

As noted, I don't feel very strongly about this hypothesis, and tend to prefer the more mundane explanations for all of this stuff.

That is a fascinating idea. We're hearing a lot along these lines: the charms of women, honey sweet girls, enslavement via the female parts etc...

At the very least, LF and his brothels are a model of how psychic enslavement of a society by women might work in the future.

That said, I'm not looking forward to it. We'd be moving directly from the current society in which women are oppressed, to a society in which women deserve to be oppressed, because they're monsters.

[Damon_Tor]

22 hours ago, Springwatch said:

That is a fascinating idea. We're hearing a lot along these lines: the charms of women, honey sweet girls, enslavement via the female parts etc...

At the very least, LF and his brothels are a model of how psychic enslavement of a society by women might work in the future.

That said, I'm not looking forward to it. We'd be moving directly from the current society in which women are oppressed, to a society in which women deserve to be oppressed, because they're monsters.

Basically Littlefinger is simply using the whores as intermediaries. The nature of sex magic means a man will need a female intermediary to control a male subject. Case in point, Qyburn specifically needed females for his experiments to control unGregor. Many speculate Euron uses the Dusky Woman in the same way.

[Springwatch]

2 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Basically Littlefinger is simply using the whores as intermediaries. The nature of sex magic means a man will need a female intermediary to control a male subject. Case in point, Qyburn specifically needed females for his experiments to control unGregor. Many speculate Euron uses the Dusky Woman in the same way.

Very nice possibilities.

Even without actual magic, brothel keepers have impressive power over the minds of their clients. I'm thinking of Anguy, who was parted from ten thousand gold dragons at Chataya's, and - here's the thing - he was and is completely happy about it. Bizarre.

[Seams]

3 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Basically Littlefinger is simply using the whores as intermediaries. The nature of sex magic means a man will need a female intermediary to control a male subject. Case in point, Qyburn specifically needed females for his experiments to control unGregor. Many speculate Euron uses the Dusky Woman in the same way.

This raises really interesting possibilities about Shae. It might explain why she was in Tywin's bed at the moment Tyrion arrived - someone was trying to control Tywin?

And returning to the topic of Petyr Baelish, this theory would also create a new layer of meaning for Jeyne Poole / fArya, who was first victimized in one of the Baelish brothels before being sent to the Boltons.

[Springwatch]

Qyburn sent Pia to Jaime, which qualifies him as a pimp, also. I don't think the 'sex magic' comes from him (or Littlefinger) though - the charms of women are intrinsic to the women themselves, and Qyburn's puppeteers had that skill before he ever met them. So there's still a question as to how the 'pimp' or 'madam' manages to control these controlling 'whores'. Case in point: Shae doesn't seem to need a pimp at all, though it's possible one has recruited her.

Another mystery is why so many female characters have been made honorary whores, in some sort of way. Cat was found in a brothel. Tysha, Jeyne and (nearly) Brienne were treated as whores. Cersei was called a whore, and traded sex for favours. Even Dany has been called a whore. It could be said that Sansa and Arya 'inherit' the whore label via Jeyne's identity as 'Ned's little girl'. It's all a bit odd, and so far, means nothing.

[Damon_Tor]

On 7/1/2018 at 1:05 PM, Springwatch said:

Qyburn sent Pia to Jaime, which qualifies him as a pimp, also. I don't think the 'sex magic' comes from him (or Littlefinger) though - the charms of women are intrinsic to the women themselves, and Qyburn's puppeteers had that skill before he ever met them. So there's still a question as to how the 'pimp' or 'madam' manages to control these controlling 'whores'. Case in point: Shae doesn't seem to need a pimp at all, though it's possible one has recruited her.

Another mystery is why so many female characters have been made honorary whores, in some sort of way. Cat was found in a brothel. Tysha, Jeyne and (nearly) Brienne were treated as whores. Cersei was called a whore, and traded sex for favours. Even Dany has been called a whore. It could be said that Sansa and Arya 'inherit' the whore label via Jeyne's identity as 'Ned's little girl'. It's all a bit odd, and so far, means nothing.

It's a question of who has the talent, or the training, to use sex to bind shadows. In most cases, the woman seems the one with the ability, whether she knows it or not. Littlefinger would be an unusual example of a man who can also do this, probably due to the NDE sex with Lysa. This carries notes of Dune: a typically female talent is exponentially stronger when wielded by a man. As much as George likes to think of himself as a feminist, we've all read Meathouse Man. We can tie that back to all the women in the story being labeled as or treated like whores; GRRM has some complicated issues with how he thinks about women.