What do you think caused Martin to loose his grip on the material?

[Cas Stark]

It wouldn't even matter about needing 3 more books if not for the massive slow down in writing speed.  If he was still producing a book within 3 years, we would be waiting now for book 8, instead of book 6.  Even if he was taking 5 years, we would already have Winds, and he would be half way through book 7.  But, if takes him a minimum of 8 years [2019 pub, which I doubt he makes], then getting to the end becomes more and more unlikely, especially if he needs 8 books not 7.

[BlackLightning]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 6:29 PM, Cas Stark said:

One of the problems the author created with Feast and Dance and all the stories and povs is that he's now in damned if you do/damned if you don't territory.  If he wraps up these threads quickly, it makes it more obvious they were ill conceived/random/filler...and will also throw off the pacing of the series; if he keeps with even a slightly faster pace and tells a full story for all the secondary arcs, then he can never, ever, never finish the series in 7 books.  In my opinion, and another reason why Feast/Dance mark the point where a barely controlled narrative that continued to balloon went totally out of control.

2

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I feel that if Martin stayed true to his geographical split of the story (i.e. Jaime, Areo, Victarion and Cersei's Dance chapters put into Feast, more Davos and Bran chapters in Dance), had ended Dance with the beginning salvos of the Battle of Winterfell and included more Bran and Sansa chapters, people would be singing a different song.

In other words...Dance was an unfinished book. Like I don't see the reason why the sample chapters for Sansa, Aeron, Theon and Victarion were not have been included in Dance. And there's a Bran chapter floating around that had already been written but not included -- his editor has spoken on it.

I imgaine that if he had a corporeal skeleton of an outline for the final two or three acts of the story (i.e. the parts of a story where an outline becomes absolutely necessary) things would have gone a lot smoother. Yes, I said it. For the sake of understanding, imagine that this series was a five act Shakespeare play: five books in and we just finished Act 3. 

[Morte]

10 hours ago, YouKnowNothingJonSnow said:

GRRM either has to kill off some POVs or bring a lot of them together.

And to skip time!

For example: Don't tell us the whole of Dany's journey with the Dothraki, make that one chapter with a little pondering about how they behave toward her (and one flashback what happend then they met) - and at the end of this chapter let her arrive at Vaes Dothrak. I really think that Mereen by itself wouldn't be a big problem, because with the many POVs he can move fast there, while still able to skip some time.

Imho the problem now lies with all the plots not only being asynchron, but also in different paces (that happened because of the splitting in AFFC and ADWD, where he didn't had to think about what happens when where), making it difficult to put the remaining story together.

Admitting that he does need three books (or make TWOW two volumes) would indeed be the first step to work this out, as he wouldn't be forced to have all plots evenly displayed in TWOW (remember then in books 1-3 Daenery's story, and also later Bran's story in the north was told on a much faster pace then the other stories and had a lot more time-skips in it?).

 

[Big Daddy]

As much as I think the writing on the show has suffered without Martin's books to guide them, the show HAS done some things right. Killing off characters to end their arcs has worked. I think in this area, Martin would be well served to have Cersei eliminate her enemies in one fell swoop in a Godfather sort of way. The Tyrell plot has to end. Get rid of all of them at once. The Faegon plot needs to merge with the Dornish plot...then suddenly end. Let Cersei take them all out too. The Euron plot can go on but needs to start to come together with fewer characters.

Dany needs to get her posse together and gtfo of Dodge. Have her unite everyone from a position of strength at the beginning of the book and not appear again until she arrives on the shores of Westeros at the end of the book. Dont give her another arc until she arrives.

Or...start to finally develop the Others and the threat from the north. If they made it past the wall all of these lingering plotlines could end as cannon fodder for the real threat. But that is asking too much.

[Dragon in the North]

22 hours ago, btfu806 said:

I know people will blame some of the "useless" chapters from AFFC/ADWD, I am holding out that they still have relevance to the future, we just don't know it yet... hopefully...

Sorry, I just don’t see it. It may be true that Tyrion’s travelogue, San’s travelogue, Brienne’s travelogue, Quentyn’s quest, Arianne’s Queenmaking plot, Jaime’s Riverland arc, etc. may have more payoff than originally thought, but the fact will remain that it took far too long to get there.

[argonak]

7 minutes ago, Big Daddy said:

As much as I think the writing on the show has suffered without Martin's books to guide them, the show HAS done some things right. Killing off characters to end their arcs has worked. I think in this area, Martin would be well served to have Cersei eliminate her enemies in one fell swoop in a Godfather sort of way. The Tyrell plot has to end. Get rid of all of them at once. The Faegon plot needs to merge with the Dornish plot...then suddenly end. Let Cersei take them all out too. The Euron plot can go on but needs to start to come together with fewer characters.

Dany needs to get her posse together and gtfo of Dodge. Have her unite everyone from a position of strength at the beginning of the book and not appear again until she arrives on the shores of Westeros at the end of the book. Dont give her another arc until she arrives.

Or...start to finally develop the Others and the threat from the north. If they made it past the wall all of these lingering plotlines could end as cannon fodder for the real threat. But that is asking too much.

If Cersei became that competend I think everyone would be confused.  If anyone needs to end, its her.  She's been setup to fail by some very smart people, and she simply isn't remotely as smart as she thinks she is.

[Big Daddy]

8 hours ago, argonak said:

If Cersei became that competend I think everyone would be confused.  If anyone needs to end, its her.  She's been setup to fail by some very smart people, and she simply isn't remotely as smart as she thinks she is.

I do love me some Cersei being incompetent. I find it highly entertaining when she thinks she has her father's cunning and ends up making a mess of things. But I can't see her getting taken out and not being there for the end game. How satistfying will it be narratively if whoever saves the day at the end does so by facing off against a character who wasn't around in the first book? Dany and/or Jon vs Faegon in the final book? The Martels? Nah. She is going to hold onto power until the end.

But I do agree about not making her too competent.. She can get rid of all these people and have it come back to haunt her politically which I would find interesting.

[btfu806]

36 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Sorry, I just don’t see it. It may be true that Tyrion’s travelogue, San’s travelogue, Brienne’s travelogue, Quentyn’s quest, Arianne’s Queenmaking plot, Jaime’s Riverland arc, etc. may have more payoff than originally thought, but the fact will remain that it took far too long to get there.

I won't disagree with that. I like to think it is for a reason though. Keeps me sane I guess.... 

[btfu806]

29 minutes ago, Big Daddy said:

I do love me some Cersei being incompetent. I find it highly entertaining when she thinks she has her father's cunning and ends up making a mess of things. But I can't see her getting taken out and not being there for the end game. How satistfying will it be narritively if whoever saves the day at the end does so by facing off against a character who wasn't around in the firat book? Dany and/or Jon vs Faegon in the final book? The Martels? Nah. She is going to hold onto power until the end.

But I do agree about not making her too competent.. She can get rid of all these people and have it come back to haunt her politically which I would find interesting.

I just don't see how she will hold power. It would make sense for her to be there at the end based on the beginning characters, but as things stand now, something drastic or deus ex machina related needs to happen to keep her there...

[D-Shiznit]

Basically the cure is that a lot of characters need to die, and die quick, even by GRRM's standard.

[T and A]

2 hours ago, btfu806 said:

I just don't see how she will hold power. It would make sense for her to be there at the end based on the beginning characters, but as things stand now, something drastic or deus ex machina related needs to happen to keep her there...

By forging an alliance with Euron would make her pretty powerfull again. Euron needs allies, and no other Lord is that stupid to ally with a psychopathic Greyjoy. Cercei on the other hand, has no choice since she is left pretty much alone.

Most of the book readers by now seem to think that she is a gonner now. I think that she will be endgame material. Every time you think she is donne, she just comes back. 

[M.Alhazred]

5 hours ago, T and A said:

By forging an alliance with Euron would make her pretty powerfull again. Euron needs allies, and no other Lord is that stupid to ally with a psychopathic Greyjoy. Cercei on the other hand, has no choice since she is left pretty much alone.

Most of the book readers by now seem to think that she is a gonner now. I think that she will be endgame material. Every time you think she is donne, she just comes back. 

Wouldn't aligning with Euron alienate what little support she has in The Westerlands? They burnt their fleet and raided them for years.

[T and A]

14 hours ago, M.Alhazred said:

Wouldn't aligning with Euron alienate what little support she has in The Westerlands? They burnt their fleet and raided them for years.

Yes, it definitively would. You are absolutely right. But my guess is that she will be helping Euron to destroy the existing ruling houses of the Westerlands, which does not surprise one since destroying the Tyrell dinasty is one of her main goals. Every day she gets more mad and more evil. An aliance with Euron just seems natural for her arch.

[BlackLightning]

On 8/20/2018 at 2:22 AM, The Coconut God said:

Does Euron want to hold Westeros, or just consume it as a crow would a corpse? I can't see him marching armies anywhere inland, such as Riverrun, Winterfell, the Eyrie, etc. It would gut much of his appeal. Some of the imagery in his chapters certainly hints at a dying Westeros:

If we look more deeply at the Forsaken chapter, Euron seems to want to become a God rather than a King. Less land grabbing (he'd just throw the lands away to his followers anyway) and more shock and awe gestures.

I can agree with this part below
(((What reason would he have to attack refugee ships? For one, plunder - there would be valuables on those ships, food perhaps, should his crews need it, as well as a lot of women and children to take as thralls. A second possibility would be sacrifice. Westeros is supposed to die, and Euron is doing the work of the Great Other by preventing those marked for death from escaping, hoping to achieve some form of godhood himself by doing so.))))

Cersei would support him in this because she is unhinged and she would see people who try to abandon her kingdom as vile traitors, North Korea style. I can see them both losing King's Landing to Aegon and then "ruling" from Silence and spitefully attacking refugees once Westeros becomes overwhelmed by the Others. In comes Sansa trying to seduce Euron away from Cersei in a bid to ensure safe passage for the Vale ships; Euron is interested in her because of her warg Stark blood and initially plays along, fulfilling the "younger queen" prophecy and making Victarion the valonquar.

As for the mysteries, many of them don't "have to" be resolved (theorycrafting them would still be fun once the full series is out), and the ones that can be resolved don't really need a huge plot line to do that (after all, we learned a lot about the Children from only two measly Bran chapters). Stuff like Starfall or the God's Eye are really obscure, too... I don't see them becoming meaningful without further set-up, in spite of some of the more crackpot expectations, and setting them up would take more page space than a radical yet entirely feasible move towards Essos.

Euron has to absolutely hold Westeros if he wants to take over the world, destroy the world and rule over the ashes that are left behind as a god. He needs a power base to get that point. He needs a source of food, slaves, ships and steel. He needs "worshippers."

It's good to see that more and more people are starting to see the obvious reality that Cersei is making it to the last book (Jaime might not) and that she is going to marry Euron are going to get married and join forces in Dream (yikes!!!).

Victarion the valonqar? Why not Aeron? Or Theon? Varys? Arya deserves a crack at it, right? Or maybe the valonqar is Euron himself.

I don't think the younger, more beautiful queen is any one person. I think it's either multiple people (Margaery, Daenerys, Arianne, Sansa, Myrcella ironically and maybe Asha) or it's Cersei herself which would be bitterly ironic.

While I can see the top two worst things to ever happen to Planetos ruling from the Silence giving everyone on both sides of the Narrow Sea absolute hell, I think it's better to see them:

1. take over King's Landing when no one is paying attention
2. kick the s--- out of Aegon, the Greyjoy kids, Arianne, JonCon (if he doesn't keel over first) and Tyrion
3. laughing at the people dying of starvation, greyscale, zombies, etc.

All while Daenerys, Jon, Jaime/Brienne, Sansa, Bran, Sam, etc. are being heroes dealing with the Others in the North.

I'm certain that Euron will turn on Cersei when the party ends and the time is right. Except it will be like it was in Game; Euron will be the Cersei Lannister in the situation and Cersei will be the Robert Baratheon. Poetic justice at its finest.

At least Cersei will get some really good sex out of it.

So when what's left of the heroes come back from their war with the Others, they can get completely blindsided by the real problems they thought they should have been ignoring.

Personally, I think Patchface is trying to warn everyone about the threat posed by Euron who is in league with the things that lie at the bottom of the ocean. But that's another story.

As much as I think the writing on the show has suffered without Martin's books to guide them, the show HAS done some things right. Killing off characters to end their arcs has worked. I think in this area, Martin would be well served to have Cersei eliminate her enemies in one fell swoop in a Godfather sort of way. The Tyrell plot has to end. Get rid of all of them at once. The Faegon plot needs to merge with the Dornish plot...then suddenly end. Let Cersei take them all out too.

The green is a yes. The red is a "Hell nah gtfoh"

The Faegon plot and the Dornish plot are going to merge. Rather quickly too. But Cersei taking them out...never.

If Cersei manages to take out the Tyrells and all their bannermen in one fell swoop (which would be stupid), what's she going to do when 20k Golden Company sellswords, their horses and their elephants, 15k Dornishmen, 1-5k Stormlanders show up on her doorstep? Especially when Varys, the Sand Snakes, the Faith MIlitant, the smallfolk and maybe even Myrcella are on the inside making her life difficult.

No. That's called jumping the shark.

On 8/24/2018 at 11:49 AM, Dragon in the North said:

Sorry, I just don’t see it. It may be true that Tyrion’s travelogue, San’s travelogue, Brienne’s travelogue, Quentyn’s quest, Arianne’s Queenmaking plot, Jaime’s Riverland arc, etc. may have more payoff than originally thought, but the fact will remain that it took far too long to get there.

Quentyn's quest, Jaime's arc in the Riverlands and Arianne's queenmaking plot have some very big, very obvious payoff coming.

Tyrion's travelogue doesn't have that much payoff because it was so long and drawn-out but...it's coming.

On 8/24/2018 at 12:27 PM, btfu806 said:

I just don't see how she will hold power. It would make sense for her to be there at the end based on the beginning characters, but as things stand now, something drastic or deus ex machina related needs to happen to keep her there...

With Tyrion being a disinherited fugitive wanted for several counts of murder and treason and Jaime being Kingsguard, Cersei is Tywin's heir. (which is hilarious)

This was widely discussed in Feast for Crows. For all of her penis envy and gripes about sexism, Cersei was one of the top three most powerful people in Westeros.

Casterly Rock and all of the West are hers.

22 hours ago, T and A said:

By forging an alliance with Euron would make her pretty powerfull again. Euron needs allies, and no other Lord is that stupid to ally with a psychopathic Greyjoy. Cercei on the other hand, has no choice since she is left pretty much alone.

Most of the book readers by now seem to think that she is a gonner now. I think that she will be endgame material. Every time you think she is donne, she just comes back. 

yes and no

No? In the books, the Lannisters are still very, very rich. They were only broke in the TV show. There are mines under and around Casterly Rock that haven't even been touched. So, since Casterly Rock and the entire Westerland regions belongs to Cersei...she is still a pretty powerful person.

Yes? Okay, getting in bed with Euron Greyjoy (figuratively and literally) will obviously make her more powerful. But Cersei being the moron that she is won't realize that she doesn't need Euron. Euron needs her. Especially if the Martells sends the armies waiting in the Prince's Pass to Oldtown and if Asha somehow kicks Stannis to the curb and shows back up with Theon.

17 hours ago, M.Alhazred said:

Wouldn't aligning with Euron alienate what little support she has in The Westerlands? They burnt their fleet and raided them for years.

 

3 hours ago, T and A said:

Yes, it definitively would. You are absolutely right. But my guess is that she will be helping Euron to destroy the existing ruling houses of the Westerlands, which does not surprise one since destroying the Tyrell dinasty is one of her main goals. Every day she gets more mad and more evil. An aliance with Euron just seems natural for her arch.

Not necessarily.

The Ironborn haven't done anything to the people of the Westerlands since the Greyjoy Rebellion. It would have made more sense for Balon Greyjoy to raid the Westerlands. Robb and Theon wanted him to but he didn't....he decided to raid the North. Which has never made sense to me because the West is filthy rich whereas the North is rich in only lumber and furs.

The Westerlands are hundreds of miles away from King's Landing. News about current events can travel awfully slow...or not get there at all. And, as we all know from the game of telephone; the more whispered news travels, the more distorted the news tends to become.

If the West is fed the story that their beloved Tywin's grandchildren was butchered by the Dornish/Tyrells/Faith of the Seven/Aegon/etc., that a savage outlaw had brutalized Tywin's only good son and that his beautiful daughter and heir was was publicly shamed and chased out of the city in tears, well...

...Cersei won't have to destroy the existing ruling houses of the Westerlands. They owe her obeisance anyways.

Of course, the lords of the West won't like or trust Euron. But Cersei being Cersei will refuse to listen to any good advice because of ParanoiaXYZ. Of course, it will end up not only backfiring on Cersei (this time ending with her death) but it will probably doom the entire world because Cersei is the only rich/powerful person stupid enough to give him everything he needs.

[The Coconut God]

1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Victarion the valonqar? Why not Aeron? Or Theon? Varys? Arya deserves a crack at it, right? Or maybe the valonqar is Euron himself.

Why not? Euron raped his wife and forced him to kill her to protect his "honor", and the thought of that still haunts him. He killed her with his bare hands. He is already planning to take his brother's wife as payback. but let's face it, he won't have Dany... And he's Euron's younger brother, which is very meaningful, since it's the only reason he thinks he owes him obedience, a major source of frustration for him.

Victarion fits. It gives him a purpose, too. And Cersei being totally surprised when the valonqar finally comes also fits, with how sure she is she's in control of the prophecy. It can't be Tyrion and Jaime or Arya would be too tacky and obvious. Jaime's done with Cersei anyway, they can never see each other again and their relationship still has a nice ending.

[BlackLightning]

1 hour ago, The Coconut God said:

Why not? Euron raped his wife and forced him to kill her to protect his "honor", and the thought of that still haunts him. He killed her with his bare hands. He is already planning to take his brother's wife as payback. but let's face it, he won't have Dany... And he's Euron's younger brother, which is very meaningful, since it's the only reason he thinks he owes him obedience, a major source of frustration for him.

Victarion fits. It gives him a purpose, too. And Cersei being totally surprised when the valonqar finally comes also fits, with how sure she is she's in control of the prophecy. It can't be Tyrion and Jaime or Arya would be too tacky and obvious. Jaime's done with Cersei anyway, they can never see each other again and their relationship still has a nice ending.

I actually think Victarion will have Dany. Well...actually Dany will have him but in any case, I think Daenerys and Victarion are getting married and having sex and working together. Victarion Greyjoy is the mount to dread. The dead man smiling sadly at the prow of a ship.

I'm cool with Jaime and Cersei not seeing each other ever again.

[M.Alhazred]

6 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Euron has to absolutely hold Westeros if he wants to take over the world, destroy the world and rule over the ashes that are left behind as a god. He needs a power base to get that point. He needs a source of food, slaves, ships and steel. He needs "worshippers."

It's good to see that more and more people are starting to see the obvious reality that Cersei is making it to the last book (Jaime might not) and that she is going to marry Euron are going to get married and join forces in Dream (yikes!!!).

Victarion the valonqar? Why not Aeron? Or Theon? Varys? Arya deserves a crack at it, right? Or maybe the valonqar is Euron himself.

I don't think the younger, more beautiful queen is any one person. I think it's either multiple people (Margaery, Daenerys, Arianne, Sansa, Myrcella ironically and maybe Asha) or it's Cersei herself which would be bitterly ironic.

While I can see the top two worst things to ever happen to Planetos ruling from the Silence giving everyone on both sides of the Narrow Sea absolute hell, I think it's better to see them:

1. take over King's Landing when no one is paying attention
2. kick the s--- out of Aegon, the Greyjoy kids, Arianne, JonCon (if he doesn't keel over first) and Tyrion
3. laughing at the people dying of starvation, greyscale, zombies, etc.

All while Daenerys, Jon, Jaime/Brienne, Sansa, Bran, Sam, etc. are being heroes dealing with the Others in the North.

I'm certain that Euron will turn on Cersei when the party ends and the time is right. Except it will be like it was in Game; Euron will be the Cersei Lannister in the situation and Cersei will be the Robert Baratheon. Poetic justice at its finest.

At least Cersei will get some really good sex out of it.

So when what's left of the heroes come back from their war with the Others, they can get completely blindsided by the real problems they thought they should have been ignoring.

Personally, I think Patchface is trying to warn everyone about the threat posed by Euron who is in league with the things that lie at the bottom of the ocean. But that's another story.

The green is a yes. The red is a "Hell nah gtfoh"

The Faegon plot and the Dornish plot are going to merge. Rather quickly too. But Cersei taking them out...never.

If Cersei manages to take out the Tyrells and all their bannermen in one fell swoop (which would be stupid), what's she going to do when 20k Golden Company sellswords, their horses and their elephants, 15k Dornishmen, 1-5k Stormlanders show up on her doorstep? Especially when Varys, the Sand Snakes, the Faith MIlitant, the smallfolk and maybe even Myrcella are on the inside making her life difficult.

No. That's called jumping the shark.

Quentyn's quest, Jaime's arc in the Riverlands and Arianne's queenmaking plot have some very big, very obvious payoff coming.

Tyrion's travelogue doesn't have that much payoff because it was so long and drawn-out but...it's coming.

With Tyrion being a disinherited fugitive wanted for several counts of murder and treason and Jaime being Kingsguard, Cersei is Tywin's heir. (which is hilarious)

This was widely discussed in Feast for Crows. For all of her penis envy and gripes about sexism, Cersei was one of the top three most powerful people in Westeros.

Casterly Rock and all of the West are hers.

yes and no

No? In the books, the Lannisters are still very, very rich. They were only broke in the TV show. There are mines under and around Casterly Rock that haven't even been touched. So, since Casterly Rock and the entire Westerland regions belongs to Cersei...she is still a pretty powerful person.

Yes? Okay, getting in bed with Euron Greyjoy (figuratively and literally) will obviously make her more powerful. But Cersei being the moron that she is won't realize that she doesn't need Euron. Euron needs her. Especially if the Martells sends the armies waiting in the Prince's Pass to Oldtown and if Asha somehow kicks Stannis to the curb and shows back up with Theon.

 

Not necessarily.

The Ironborn haven't done anything to the people of the Westerlands since the Greyjoy Rebellion. It would have made more sense for Balon Greyjoy to raid the Westerlands. Robb and Theon wanted him to but he didn't....he decided to raid the North. Which has never made sense to me because the West is filthy rich whereas the North is rich in only lumber and furs.

The Westerlands are hundreds of miles away from King's Landing. News about current events can travel awfully slow...or not get there at all. And, as we all know from the game of telephone; the more whispered news travels, the more distorted the news tends to become.

If the West is fed the story that their beloved Tywin's grandchildren was butchered by the Dornish/Tyrells/Faith of the Seven/Aegon/etc., that a savage outlaw had brutalized Tywin's only good son and that his beautiful daughter and heir was was publicly shamed and chased out of the city in tears, well...

...Cersei won't have to destroy the existing ruling houses of the Westerlands. They owe her obeisance anyways.

Of course, the lords of the West won't like or trust Euron. But Cersei being Cersei will refuse to listen to any good advice because of ParanoiaXYZ. Of course, it will end up not only backfiring on Cersei (this time ending with her death) but it will probably doom the entire world because Cersei is the only rich/powerful person stupid enough to give him everything he needs.

I don't think the ruling houses will be sending her any real troops,especially if she's working with Ironborn.No matter how they learn about it.

[The Sleeper]

Being only tangeniently interested in Martin's character, work ethic and priorities, I have only a few observations. 

The POV's and the plot arcs do not coincide and never did. Stannis was a large part of what the plot revolved around in Game and he was completely absent. The POV's that were introduced in Feast and Dance do not mean new plot elements. These plot elements had been there from the start. Varys and Illyrio, and Theon have affected the plot from Game and even Dorne has had an impact from Clash and onward if admittedly a lesser one. Those plot elements resolved into the Martell family, the fAegon scheme and Euron. The later POV's that were introduced were meant to shed light and substance on the workings of those plot elements rather than have them being nameless, faceless forces. That is a very solid narrative reason for introducing new POV's much like Davos and Theon were introduced. Whether they work or not is a different debate. 

ASoIaF is not a single narrative and I don't mean the concurrent ones. There are multiple storylines that are being told and unfolded by the same text. The most prominent example is the resolution of Jon's Arryn murder which involved the tale of Lysa and LF in the background of the main narrative. The biggest one is the story of Robert's rebellion which is being told in bits and pieces and in the actions of the characters as the main narrative unfolds. One that is being told in that way is Varys and Illyrio's.

How do people know there are many things to resolve? Because many things have been set up. These are not necessarily complications, they are resolutions. We expect the Lannister/Tyrell alliance to fall apart. Part of that is accomplished through Cersei. The High Sparrow's meteoric rise and the Faith's as a power is established through both Jaime and Brienne. These both play into Aegon's rise to power and set up his conflict with Dany, who in turn needs to be very powerful and also unwelcome in Westerns, which has been in turn set up by the travels fo both Quentyn, Tyrion and Victarion who have made a tour of Danny's potential allies and enemies and their agendas. All these feed into each other. The situation in Storm was similarly complicated up until the Red Wedding which commenced a frenzy of resolution. There is a plan for ASoIaF. It is being laid right in front of our eyes. 

[BlackLightning]

23 hours ago, M.Alhazred said:

I don't think the ruling houses will be sending her any real troops, especially if she's working with the Ironborn. No matter how they learn about it.

True....

...but if Daenerys Targaryen shows up with three full-grown (and still growing) dragons, Tyrion Lannister, the Unsullied, the Second Sons/the Stormcrows, a bunch of red priests, every Dothraki screamer known to man, thousands of freedmen, her own personal archmaester and an Ironborn husband of her own to manage her massive navy...

Then, maybe the westerlords are just going to have to reconsider.

Because, they and Cersei both will be absolutely terrified of Daenerys. She's coming to radically change their way of life ("break the wheel") and she's coming with fire and blood. And then there's Tyrion and Tyrion is well...a changed man. The westermen probably would have an very low opinion of Tyrion even if he didn't murder their liege lord and his grandson. They'll probably even blame him for murdering Kevan Lannister.

And then on top of that, you have to remember the westermen have not had much time to recover from the War of the Five Kings. Now, they are facing the worst winter they have ever seen. To make matters worse, dead people south of the Wall are going to start reanimating by that time and the nights are going to get longer and longer and longer.

It's going to be a dark, desperate time.

They probably won't like Cersei or any of her decisions. But they'll probably be so desperate and so afraid that they might feel that its in there best interest to just do what they are told. The Ironborn might even be able to bring a bunch of food (stolen from the Reach) to the table.

14 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Being only tangeniently interested in Martin's character, work ethic and priorities, I have only a few observations. 

The POV's and the plot arcs do not coincide and never did. Stannis was a large part of what the plot revolved around in Game and he was completely absent. The POV's that were introduced in Feast and Dance do not mean new plot elements. These plot elements had been there from the start. Varys and Illyrio, and Theon have affected the plot from Game and even Dorne has had an impact from Clash and onward if admittedly a lesser one. Those plot elements resolved into the Martell family, the fAegon scheme and Euron. The later POV's that were introduced were meant to shed light and substance on the workings of those plot elements rather than have them being nameless, faceless forces. That is a very solid narrative reason for introducing new POV's much like Davos and Theon were introduced. Whether they work or not is a different debate. 

ASoIaF is not a single narrative and I don't mean the concurrent ones. There are multiple storylines that are being told and unfolded by the same text. The most prominent example is the resolution of Jon's Arryn murder which involved the tale of Lysa and LF in the background of the main narrative. The biggest one is the story of Robert's rebellion which is being told in bits and pieces and in the actions of the characters as the main narrative unfolds. One that is being told in that way is Varys and Illyrio's.

How do people know there are many things to resolve? Because many things have been set up. These are not necessarily complications, they are resolutions. We expect the Lannister/Tyrell alliance to fall apart. Part of that is accomplished through Cersei. The High Sparrow's meteoric rise and the Faith's as a power is established through both Jaime and Brienne. These both play into Aegon's rise to power and set up his conflict with Dany, who in turn needs to be very powerful and also unwelcome in Westerns, which has been in turn set up by the travels fo both Quentyn, Tyrion and Victarion who have made a tour of Danny's potential allies and enemies and their agendas. All these feed into each other. The situation in Storm was similarly complicated up until the Red Wedding which commenced a frenzy of resolution. There is a plan for ASoIaF. It is being laid right in front of our eyes. 

Nice observations!

[M.Alhazred]

And then you have The Knights of The Vale and the lord protector Littlefinger who could be heading to Harrenhall so,I can see them look the other way while Euron brings supplies.Dany shows up with the dragons and everyone and everything else.I think The Westerlords would turn against Cersei and go with the Queen with the blood mad horde and dragons.Aegon stuck in the Stormlands with The Others will be indisposed.