Errant Bard Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Just now, Fellaining Da Bruyne said: I loooooooooooove Vellum and Ink... but if OP wasn't fond of the character skipping in Malazan, fuck knows what he's going to make of the character-skipping-actually-no-different-iteration-same-character-wait-now-we're-in-ancient-Syria-what-the-fuck-is-going-on madness of Vellum. You mean I cannot recommend Borges or Eco or Harkaway either? That's some really edulcorated brand of "complexity" we're dealing with here. Bah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Just now, Errant Bard said: That's some really edulcorated brand of "complexity" we're dealing with here. Like I said above I don't really agree with how OP defines complexity but since they made it pretty clear what it is they're referring to I'm not sure there's much point getting snarky about it. They're not saying they'd never accept other types of complexity- just not asking about that in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, Fellaining Da Bruyne said: Like I said above I don't really agree with how OP defines complexity but since they made it pretty clear what it is they're referring to I'm not sure there's much point getting snarky about it. They're not saying they'd never accept other types of complexity- just not asking about that in this topic. You are right, I did not even mean to be snarky, sigh. I suppose he's looking for a cohesive, coherent and extended secondary world, rid of its complexities to be at the service of a simple plot... at the risk of the plot not being able to go where the author wants, as the worldbuilding railroads everything (cf: Meereenese knot.) I cannot think of a more egregious example than ASOIAF truly. Abraham's worldbuilding is based on one idea or two but he keeps it light to leave space for characters, for example. Banks' Culture world or Pratchett's Discworld would be the reverse, a lack of overarching simple plot, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 48 minutes ago, Errant Bard said: You are right, I did not even mean to be snarky, sigh. I suppose he's looking for a cohesive, coherent and extended secondary world, rid of its complexities to be at the service of a simple plot... at the risk of the plot not being able to go where the author wants, as the worldbuilding railroads everything (cf: Meereenese knot.) I cannot think of a more egregious example than ASOIAF truly. Abraham's worldbuilding is based on one idea or two but he keeps it light to leave space for characters, for example. Banks' Culture world or Pratchett's Discworld would be the reverse, a lack of overarching simple plot, right. You could put it that way. Pratchett especially was built on character first, with very few ongoing plots though lots of ongoing themes. I don't think Martin's overall approach is a flawed one, but his fidelity to fidelity itself has become a problem, quite clearly- though massively exacerbated by his inability to trust his readers and therefore choosing to abolish the time-jump and create the Knot in the first place. I don't think the approach he's taken itself is intrinsically an issue, but when writing like that on such a scale it requires very careful planning and he ran into trouble when he abandoned the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mwm Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Errant Bard said: You are right, I did not even mean to be snarky, sigh. I suppose he's looking for a cohesive, coherent and extended secondary world, rid of its complexities to be at the service of a simple plot... at the risk of the plot not being able to go where the author wants, as the worldbuilding railroads everything (cf: Meereenese knot.) I cannot think of a more egregious example than ASOIAF truly. Abraham's worldbuilding is based on one idea or two but he keeps it light to leave space for characters, for example. Banks' Culture world or Pratchett's Discworld would be the reverse, a lack of overarching simple plot, right. co·her·ent ˌkōˈhirənt/ adjective 1. (of an argument, theory, or policy) logical and consistent. Yes! I actually like reading coherent books. I never knew until just now what an odd fellow I am in comparision to you...come to think about it I’m quite ok with that. I don’t have to slog through anything I don’t enjoy; no matter what others say. Nor do I have to prove anything to anyone. I didn’t read Moby Dick just so I could say I read Moby Dick. Like I said, to each their own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mwm Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Fellaining Da Bruyne said: Like I said above I don't really agree with how OP defines complexity but since they made it pretty clear what it is they're referring to I'm not sure there's much point getting snarky about it. They're not saying they'd never accept other types of complexity- just not asking about that in this topic. I just have a different opinion on this particular literary theory; it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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