What did Eddard want to do with Rhaegar's children?

[Giant Ice Spider]

10 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

King Viserys was the biggest claimant being the rightful king but he was thankfully far away from Robert.  Aerys passed the throne to Viserys but he was no threat unless he has an army.   Elia was the least of the threat but that did not save her life.  I believe the only reason Viserys and Daenerys survived was in great part credited to the brave Ser Willem Darry.  

Yes, but there was another 15 years after their escape before Robert finally ordered a hit on a pregnant Dany. At any point during that time, Robert could have sent hired knives after them - and Dany believes he did - but we learn from Renly they didn't. Judging from the small council scene where Ned and Barristan object to the idea, where Renly, LF, and Varys vehemently supported it.

Ned couldn't persuade Robert not to send an assassin after Dany, and there are only two people who would be at persuading Robert than Ned: Cersei (his 'loving' wife) and Jon Arryn (his father figure).

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Just now, Giant Ice Spider said:

Yes, but there was another 15 years after their escape before Robert finally ordered a hit on a pregnant Dany. At any point during that time, Robert could have sent hired knives after them - and Dany believes he did - but we learn from Renly they didn't. Judging from the small council scene where Ned and Barristan object to the idea, where Renly, LF, and Varys vehemently supported it.

Ned couldn't persuade Robert not to send an assassin after Dany, and there are only two people who would be at persuading Robert than Ned: Cersei (his 'loving' wife) and Jon Arryn (his father figure).

Distance is safety.  It's not like taking a plane to Singapore.  Viserys had nothing to fund an army but the moment he acquired is the moment Robert sends his knives.  

Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon were within arm's reach.  They might still be living now if they had been with Queen Rhaella.

[Giant Ice Spider]

13 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Distance is safety.  It's not like taking a plane to Singapore.  Viserys had nothing to fund an army but the moment he acquired is the moment Robert sends his knives.  

Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon were within arm's reach.  They might still be living now if they had been with Queen Rhaella.

I think Westerosi conventional wisdom would be "If they die before they're a problem, they'll never pose one."

Also, come to think of it Renly states "if it weren't for Jon Arryn, we would have killed them years ago" (or something to that effect)

[Corvo the Crow]

Wed'em, Bed'em and Pretend'em to the throne. Eddard rose against injustics and to overthrow Aerys, not to overthrow to Targaryens and change mad king with the fad king.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Just now, Giant Ice Spider said:

I think Westerosi conventional wisdom would be "If they die before they're a problem, they'll never pose one."

Also, come to think of it Renly states "if it weren't for Jon Arryn, we would have killed them years ago" (or something to that effect)

I have to soften my stance on Jon Arryn then.  Maybe there was no plot to take the throne and he only wanted to protect the young boys from execution.  

[Giant Ice Spider]

29 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

I have to soften my stance on Jon Arryn then.  Maybe there was no plot to take the throne and he only wanted to protect the young boys from execution.  

I could be wrong, since I don't have ACoK to hand, but I'm certain Renly said that.

That was my impression of Jon. I recall Lysa saying that Jon Arryn "wanted to protect his little boys" or something like that to Sansa the day after her wedding to LF. So that fits.

[Bernie Mac]

7 minutes ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

I could be wrong, since I don't have ACoK to hand, but I'm certain Renly said that.

Lord Renly shrugged. "The matter seems simple enough to me. We ought to have had Viserys and his sister killed years ago, but His Grace my brother made the mistake of listening to Jon Arryn."

 

it is possible that Arryn's decision would be different if they were an actual threat, but in Essos they pretty much were not 

[Giant Ice Spider]

1 minute ago, Bernie Mac said:

Lord Renly shrugged. "The matter seems simple enough to me. We ought to have had Viserys and his sister killed years ago, but His Grace my brother made the mistake of listening to Jon Arryn."

 

it is possible that Arryn's decision would be different if they were an actual threat, but in Essos they pretty much were not 

Thanks!

I think it's also that Arryn was an honourable man (like his ward Ned), and killing a boy/young man (depending on when any such discussions came up) and his little sister, especially by way of hired knives, is something I imagine him being against.

[The Golden Wolf]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Most likely, Ned didn't planned, what will be after the war, even in bigger picture, not to mention smaller details, like what to do with the remaining royal family. What could be the proof of this option, is that after the Sack of King's Landing, Ned went to Stormlands, and did nothing about Queen Rhaella and Viserys. He let Robert to seize power, and left him to do whatever Robert wanted, including to decide fate of remaining Targaryens. Ned didn't cared, what will happen with them. For him, the reason for the Rebellion, was to avenge death of his father and brother, and to find his sister. 

But mostly I think, that Ned didn't cared. He was indiferent, what will happen with those children. Obviously, that he became angry, with Tywin killing them, and Robert just ignoring it. Though during the Sack of King's Landing, hundreds, if not thousands of women and children were killed by Lannister troops, and even more people died in course of the Rebellion, and Ned wasn't bothered by it. Ned saved Jon from Robert, only because Jon was Lyanna's child. So with other Targaryens, he wouldn't have cared what will happen with them, as long as he wasn't part of it. Fate of Viserys and Daenerys, their departure to Essos, is a good example, that Ned wasn't bothered with those children being killed, or exiled, or whatever. He let Robert decide, what he wants to do with them, and just left to seach Lyanna, that's all he cared about.

Well right after the Sack of Kingslanding Ned was very angry with Robert and very close to completely ending their friendship. Also Ned did care about the Sack of Kingslanding as he felt it was a despicable act carried out by the Lannisters only to ensure that they were on the winning team after all the real fighting had been carried out. Ned was a "if you ain't been down in the trenches with me and my bois from jump then how the fuck you go try to roll with us now?" kinda guy. He wanted Tywin punished for the sacking as he felt it was over the top and it dishonored the rebellion. Add on to that that he wanted Jaime, Gregor, and Lorch all punished as well but Robert and the others decided against it and Ned was basically pissed off. 

He never got true justice fro his family or the Northerners who were murdered by Aerys. The North had strong beef with the Targs but never actually got to settle their beef. 

I think that by that time Ned was just like f' it. Let's go lift this siege then find Lyanna and bounce from the south cause they are clearly nothing but a bunch of fuck bois. If not for Lyanna dying Ned would have probably went straight back to Winterfell with her and Jon and sealed his borders. 

[Hugorfonics]

I'm a little confused on the time line. Maybe someone can help.

Trident. 

(Days later) Viserys and mom escape

(Days later) Pycelle opens gates for Tywin. Jaime kills Aerys. Gregor kills family. Eddard arrives.  (Sack of KL was one day?)

(Days later) Robert arrives. Ned gets upset over dragonspawn

(Days later) Tower of Joy.

Is this timeline correct? If so, why didn't Ned arrest Tywin Jaime and Gregor, if not why didn't he guard Rheagars family better?

 

In response to the OP, Ned probably never thought it out much, he wasn't that political savy. Jon Arryn was though, but he probably assumed they'd be comfortable living in exile like Blackfyre but never invade unlike Blackfyre lol

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, The Golden Wolf said:

Well right after the Sack of Kingslanding Ned was very angry with Robert and very close to completely ending their friendship.

Though between Aerys' death and Rhaella's death, months passed, so Ned had enough time to cool down, after the Sack of KL, and do something for those Targaryens, that were still alive. When Ned returned from Dorne to King's Landing, with Lyanna's body, Rhaella and Viserys were still at Dragonstone. GRRM said, that Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany. Lyanna died in childbirth. Ned got to the Tower of Joy, just in time to hear from her, what really happened between her and Rhaegar. So he knew, that Queen Rhaella is Jon's grandmother, and Viserys is his uncle, but he still didn't tried to do anything for them.

After Ned lifted siege of Storm's End, he went to Dorne, and Stannis, on Robert's order, has build Baratheon fleet, and with it went into an attack against royal fleet of Targaryens, stationed at Dragonstone. It takes less time to go from Storm's End to the Tower of Joy, and then from there to KL, than to build a fleet, sufficient enough, to oppose royal fleet of Targaryens.

It's unlikely, that from the Tower of Joy, with Lyanna's decaying body, and newborn Jon, Ned went by land route, on horseback. It's more likely, that he used a ship, to transport Lyanna's body to KL, for Robert to see her for the last time. That's when they reconciled, and Ned from there went to Winterfell.

When Ned returned from Dorne, already knowing who those remaining Targaryens are to him now - his relatives, on his way to KL from Dorne, and from KL to The North, he has passed by Dragonstone twice, and still did absolutely nothing to help them. 

So Ned, not giving any aid to surviving Targaryens, had nothing to do with his emotional state, after the Sack of KL, and his fall out with Robert. Thus, same as he had done nothing for Rhaella and Viserys, he also wouldn't have helped Elia and her children. The thing is, we know very little about young Ned Stark, we only know, what kind of person he was in the last years of his life, when he was aged 35-36. Could be, that with age, he became less indifferent kind of person, specifically because he regretted not saving Jon's relatives, all those years ago. 

[Frey Kings]

5 hours ago, Megorova said:

Though between Aerys' death and Rhaella's death, months passed, so Ned had enough time to cool down, after the Sack of KL, and do something for those Targaryens, that were still alive. When Ned returned from Dorne to King's Landing, with Lyanna's body, Rhaella and Viserys were still at Dragonstone. GRRM said, that Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany. Lyanna died in childbirth. Ned got to the Tower of Joy, just in time to hear from her, what really happened between her and Rhaegar. So he knew, that Queen Rhaella is Jon's grandmother, and Viserys is his uncle, but he still didn't tried to do anything for them.

After Ned lifted siege of Storm's End, he went to Dorne, and Stannis, on Robert's order, has build Baratheon fleet, and with it went into an attack against royal fleet of Targaryens, stationed at Dragonstone. It takes less time to go from Storm's End to the Tower of Joy, and then from there to KL, than to build a fleet, sufficient enough, to oppose royal fleet of Targaryens.

It's unlikely, that from the Tower of Joy, with Lyanna's decaying body, and newborn Jon, Ned went by land route, on horseback. It's more likely, that he used a ship, to transport Lyanna's body to KL, for Robert to see her for the last time. That's when they reconciled, and Ned from there went to Winterfell.

When Ned returned from Dorne, already knowing who those remaining Targaryens are to him now - his relatives, on his way to KL from Dorne, and from KL to The North, he has passed by Dragonstone twice, and still did absolutely nothing to help them. 

So Ned, not giving any aid to surviving Targaryens, had nothing to do with his emotional state, after the Sack of KL, and his fall out with Robert. Thus, same as he had done nothing for Rhaella and Viserys, he also wouldn't have helped Elia and her children. The thing is, we know very little about young Ned Stark, we only know, what kind of person he was in the last years of his life, when he was aged 35-36. Could be, that with age, he became less indifferent kind of person, specifically because he regretted not saving Jon's relatives, all those years ago. 

You know Lyanna almost destroyed House Stark right? 

 

Lyanna probably said keep my son safe. Not to put him on the bloody throne.

[Frey Kings]

17 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

It would not go over well for Aegon and Rhaenys.  Eddard might not want to harm the children but he would not want them to threaten Robert's rule.  Aegon would be forced to take the black and Rhaenys would be married off to a minor house.  Maybe even a hedge knight who cannot raise the army to take back the throne.  For that reason, I have no sympathy for the houses that rebelled.  The Baratheons, Starks, and Tullys should be removed from power and demoted to minor house status.  Oh wait, they already are, sort of.  

 

A+

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

He probably doesn't know , may be wards to either the houses of Arryn and Stark or Baratheon and Stark .

[Lee-Sensei]

17 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Eddard Stark was a good man.  Too bad his children didn't inherit his goodness.  I admit this even though I dislike his family.  However, there is little choice in the matter.  Robert would have had those children murdered.  He may do it behind Eddard's back but do it he would have.  Eddard may suspect it and attempt to talk Robert out of it but he will wash his hands, ala Pontius Pilate, and let matters take their course.   The Starks are not above slaughter.  

Viserys was exiled and had little to his name.  The Dornish still plotted to put his butt on the throne.  Then you have Varys and Illyrio plotting their games.  The only way to get Robert's reign off to a secure start is to get rid of the Targaryen children.

I doubt it, but this isn't about what Roberts would have done to them. This is about Eddard.

[Lee-Sensei]

16 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

Rhaenys would have been the perfect wife for Robert's son, through this marriage the Baratheon dynasty would be a lot more secure. Just like Ramsay married "Arya" in order to legitimise House Bolton as the North's liege lord. Aegon's a boy so he's a lot more dangerous, he could be kept under house arrest like Henry VII did with the Duke of Clarence's son. 

If Cersei had given his children his Throne would have been secure.

[Megorova]

11 hours ago, Frey Kings said:

You know Lyanna almost destroyed House Stark right? 

Jon is Azor Ahai, one of three heads of the dragon. If Lyanna didn't eloped with Rhaegar, and Jon wasn't born, then the Second Long Night, instead of being just another global disaster, would have turned into The End of The World. Without the promised Prince, people won't be able to defeat the Others, thus Second Long Night will never end, and then all Houses of 7K will perish, together with all smallfolk of Westeros, and all people of Planetos. So almost destroying House Stark is insignificant, compared with The End of The World, that Lyanna's child will prevent. In case of Apocalypse, House Stark will be destroyed anyway.

Also, what happened during Robert's Rebellion, wasn't solely Lyanna's fault. It was her brother Brandon, that threatened Crown Prince and insulted King, so it was his actions, that caused his and his father's death, not what Lyanna did. 

[The Golden Wolf]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Jon is Azor Ahai, one of three heads of the dragon. If Lyanna didn't eloped with Rhaegar, and Jon wasn't born, then the Second Long Night, instead of being just another global disaster, would have turned into The End of The World. Without the promised Prince, people won't be able to defeat the Others, thus Second Long Night will never end, and then all Houses of 7K will perish, together with all smallfolk of Westeros, and all people of Planetos. So almost destroying House Stark is insignificant, compared with The End of The World, that Lyanna's child will prevent. In case of Apocalypse, House Stark will be destroyed anyway.

Also, what happened during Robert's Rebellion, wasn't solely Lyanna's fault. It was her brother Brandon, that threatened Crown Prince and insulted King, so it was his actions, that caused his and his father's death, not what Lyanna did. 

I cannot agree with any of this as even GRRM himself has basically said prophecy is bunk and those who see them coming true basically caused them to come true through their own actions. 

Lyanna ran off with the married crown prince of the Seven Kingdoms seemingly without even leaving a note and had his love child, no matter what her actions were those that started the march to war. Sure Brandon and Aerys may have lit the match but Lyanna and Rhaegar built the bonfire. It also wasn't just House Stark that loss people to Aerys, it was everyone who rode with Brandon plus their family members that rode with Rickard that got murdered by Aerys.  

[Pikachu101]

5 hours ago, Megorova said:

Also, what happened during Robert's Rebellion, wasn't solely Lyanna's fault. It was her brother Brandon, that threatened Crown Prince and insulted King, so it was his actions

I'm going to go ahead and say it was neither Lyanna or Brandon's fault, the only person to blame for Robert's Rebellion is Rhaegar.

10 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

If Cersei had given his children his Throne would have been secure

True but we're looking at this from a Baratheon dynasty vs. Targaryen dynasty standpoint, Robert having legitimate sons would have been a given back then 

[kissdbyfire]

Above all else Eddard would want both Rhaenys and Aegon to be safe.