Robert Baratheon fights a Targaryen invasion?

[BlackLightning]

6 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

So there's basically no basis for an invasion of Essos?

Basically.

[Universal Sword Donor]

19 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Basically.

Lol I have no doubt that he would want to do that if he were still six and twenty. We all know what a man can do when he is six and twenty.

[Eli Cross]

Robert was rash enough to invade Essos.  And he would get his ass handed to him by the Dothraki.  Robert and his asswipes would never make it back home.  Their bones will litter the grasslands of the Dothraki Sea.   The bones of Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn, and Stannis will bleach under the sun of the Dothraki Sea.  

[Ralphis Baratheon]

On 6/26/2018 at 9:14 AM, Universal Sword Donor said:

They are both going to fight in plate with sword and shield. Completely different is a stretch.

They have completely different body types. One uses a long sword and the other uses a great sword. 

On 6/26/2018 at 9:14 AM, Universal Sword Donor said:

As to Oberyn and his poisoning, they already know. Jaime tells his father as much: "The man's infamous, and not just for poisoning his sword."

Which means I'm sure Jaime and Tywin would both take precautions to make sure Oberyn doesn't use poison to cheat against Jaime. As Jaime is very important and not someone expandable like The Mountain.

On 6/26/2018 at 9:14 AM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Warriors and Knights: he told me that he was sort of fed up when people wrote to him asking "who's the strongest fighter? Who's the best? Etc." He explained to me that there are some very strong fighters, he only mentioned 3: the 2 Cleganes and Loras.... however, he could not conceive how people could wonder who was the best in a fight, battle or duel.... it just depends in the day, and everything... a fight is part strength and skill, but outside factors weigh much more that those 2.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1264

hmm this seems to be an account of a  casual conversation as opposed to a direct quote on the topic like this one from an interview with GRRM. 

Martin: Well, LeBron James is the greatest active basketball player I suppose so the parallel in Westeros would be who is the greatest active swordsman. You can make a case for Jamie Lannister. You can make a case for The Hound or his brother Ser Gregor [Clegane] or Sir Loras [Tyrell], the Knight of Flowers. These are all first class Knights. Or even Ser Barristan The Bold [Sir Barristan Selmy]. These are all guys who are top at their own particular sport, which is swordsmanship and jousting, and all of the combat skills that attend knighthood.-GRRM

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2013/03/06/george-r-r-martin-game-thrones-sports-podcast

In both cases GRRM never mentions Oberyn Martell. so I'm inclined to believe Jaime would win on most days. Especially if Oberyn wasn't able to prepare for him for a decade like he did with the Mountain. While anything could happen any given day I'd say Jaime would be much better then a 50/50 chance. The duel would be in King's Landing giving Jaime a home field advantage where it would happen where and when he and the Crown decided, all to increase Jaime's chances. 

I am starting to think Loras in very underrated now that he was mentioned twice by GRRM as the best.

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

17 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

They have completely different body types. One uses a long sword and the other uses a great sword. 

He uses a great sword AS a long sword. He wields it one-handed and carries a shield.

17 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Which means I'm sure Jaime and Tywin would both take precautions to make sure Oberyn doesn't use poison to cheat against Jaime. As Jaime is very important and not someone expandable like The Mountain.

If the mountain were expendable, Tywin wouldn't have kept him away from KL when Oberyn arrived and offered up Lorch's death as justice. Admittedly Jaime is worth more than the mountain but Tywin considers neither expendable.

17 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

hmm this seems to be an account of a  casual conversation as opposed to a direct quote on the topic like this one from an interview with GRRM. 

Martin: Well, LeBron James is the greatest active basketball player I suppose so the parallel in Westeros would be who is the greatest active swordsman. You can make a case for Jamie Lannister. You can make a case for The Hound or his brother Ser Gregor [Clegane] or Sir Loras [Tyrell], the Knight of Flowers. These are all first class Knights. Or even Ser Barristan The Bold [Sir Barristan Selmy]. These are all guys who are top at their own particular sport, which is swordsmanship and jousting, and all of the combat skills that attend knighthood.-GRRM

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2013/03/06/george-r-r-martin-game-thrones-sports-podcast

In both cases GRRM never mentions Oberyn Martell. so I'm inclined to believe Jaime would win on most days. Especially if Oberyn wasn't able to prepare for him for a decade like he did with the Mountain. While anything could happen any given day I'd say Jaime would be much better then a 50/50 chance. The duel would be in King's Landing giving Jaime a home field advantage where it would happen where and when he and the Crown decided, all to increase Jaime's chances. 

I am starting to think Loras in very underrated now that he was mentioned twice by GRRM as the best.

Yes I agree. Also that one was the one I meant to find. Thank you for that

Where do you get the idea that Oberyn prepped for a decade? The weapons he used are the typical weapons of Dorne (spear, buckler, light armor). He's been training with those his entire life and spent time all over the world. He's clearly well-versed in fighting.

In the list with Jaime is ... Gregor. Kinda undermines your point

 

[FictionIsntReal]

On 6/27/2018 at 8:06 AM, Jabar of House Titan said:

Also, factoring into my belief that Robert would've tried to invade Essos is:

1. his love of war (that's the only time he acted kingly) and his almost enthusiastic reaction to the Greyjoy Rebellion
2. his ongoing fascination with the Summer Islands. Jalabhar Xho had been in King's Landing for a long time because Robert was interested in helping him reclaim his birthright and thus annex the Summer Islands into the Seven Kingdoms.

I think Robert found it amusing to have Jalabhar in his court seeking Robert's military assistance, even if nothing ever came of it. He also liked having Thoros Myr around, though Robert wasn't going to convert to R'hllorism.

[BlackLightning]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 12:59 AM, FictionIsntReal said:

I think Robert found it amusing to have Jalabhar in his court seeking Robert's military assistance, even if nothing ever came of it. He also liked having Thoros Myr around, though Robert wasn't going to convert to R'hllorism.

The fact Robert continued to keep them around tells me that his interest in them was more than just a few moments of amusement to be had every evening.

I'm inclined to trust and believe Robert when he says that he wants to abdicate the throne and see the world and have adventures. Had Cersei not been such of a ________ ________, then Jalabhar and Thoros were to be his launchpads.

[Universal Sword Donor]

45 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

The fact Robert continued to keep them around tells me that his interest in them was more than just a few moments of amusement to be had every evening.

I'm inclined to trust and believe Robert when he says that he wants to abdicate the throne and see the world and have adventures. Had Cersei not been such of a ________ ________, then Jalabhar and Thoros were to be his launchpads.

But she was. Joffrey was too. And he didn't. 

Just because you want to do something, doesn't mean you can actually do it

As Tywin put it: when Tyrion had reminded him that in ten days he would be a man grown, free to travel where he wished, Lord Tywin had said, "No man is free. Only children and fools think elsewise.

[Pikachu101]

On 6/26/2018 at 8:10 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

I wholeheartedly disagree about the bold part

Why? If Robert had a son he would have a Baratheon/Lannister/Stark/Arryn/Tully coalition behind him

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 6/23/2018 at 2:10 PM, Woodstock said:

What do you guys think?

We need winds so folks will lay off the fan fic for a while 

[Charles Calthrop]

On 6/27/2018 at 8:06 AM, Jabar of House Titan said:

 

Just because Robert tried to organize and lead an invasion of Essos, it doesn't mean it would've worked. Much of his court had adverse reaction to Robert's delusional tourneys of grandeur. A war and a manhunt overseas halfway across the world? No.

 

Remember, Robert already wanted to step away from the throne and get back into action and go have sellsword adventures in Essos. The only thing that stopped him is the fact that Cersei would then be ruling the country.

On the first point - agreed about tourneys, less about wars.  Much is made of how people loved following Robert into war/how he was at his best winning a throne. Might’ve actually worked.

On the second point - the small scrap of proof that the man did feel some responsibility for the country/throne.

[Texas Hold Em]

There were so many who called Robert the Usurper and still do behind his back.  A Targaryen returning to Westeros with dragons will cause half or more of Robert's followers to defect to Team Daenerys.  

[BlackLightning]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:21 PM, Pikachu101 said:

Why? If Robert had a son he would have a Baratheon/Lannister/Stark/Arryn/Tully coalition behind him

A son who would've had Cersei Lannister for a mother and Tywin Lannister as a grandfather and a major financial contributor? Yeah, that Baratheon/Lannister/Stark/Tully/Arryn coalition you're talking about would've eaten itself.

In any case, as it's been said before, a lot of people called King Robert an usurper and a rebel behind his back.

If Daenerys Targaryen came back to Westeros with both a large army, a substantial amount of wealth and dragons, the realm would erupt in a civil war. The Baratheon dynasty is too young to have the legacy and support to face a Targaryen re-conquest. Especially if said dynasty is being headed by a boy (or a young man) and his mother.

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

A son who would've had Cersei Lannister for a mother and Tywin Lannister as a grandfather and a major financial contributor? Yeah, that Baratheon/Lannister/Arryn/Tully coalition you're talking about would've eaten itself.

In any case, as it's been said before, a lot of people called King Robert an usurper and a rebel behind his back.

If Daenerys Targaryen came back to Westeros with both a large army, a substantial amount of wealth and dragons, the realm would erupt in a civil war. The Baratheon dynasty is too young to have the legacy and support to face a Targaryen re-conquest. Especially if said dynasty is being headed by a boy (or a young man) and his mother.

If Robert had rolled a d12, then the dynasty would have been fine. 

Tywin would have rolled least a d15 though, more than enough to stymie Dany

[BlackLightning]

13 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

If Robert had rolled a d12, then the dynasty would have been fine. 

Tywin would have rolled least a d15 though, more than enough to stymie Dany

What's a d12 and a d15?

[Universal Sword Donor]

7 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

What's a d12 and a d15?

It's a D & D reference

[Euron III Greyjoy]

I mean, having characters like Young Griff, and beings like the Others is what makes this story so interesting. If this story was just a straight up fight between the two factions, I personally would have no interest in reading it.

With the War of the Five Kings going on, Daenerys could have probably invaded and retaken the Iron Throne, but instead she chose to basically train to become a ruler by first ruling Meereen, so that proves she has patience. In your scenario the odds look heavily in favor of Robert Baratheon winning, he would have The North, The Riverlands, The Vale, The Stormlands, and The Crownlands. The Iron Islands are a wild card, and Olenna Tyrell and Doran Martell wouldn't be stupid enough to support her with the odds heavily stacked against them. So she would be stupid not to wait. 

So basically Daenerys is fucked, unless she waits years and years for her dragons to grow much bigger. Even then she could still loose since it has been proven many a time that dragons aren't invincible. 

Of course if you add things like Young Griff, and the Others, that would probably chance everything, since it is the little things in this world that change the tides of war. 

[BlackLightning]

13 hours ago, EloImFizzy said:

I mean, having characters like Young Griff, and beings like the Others is what makes this story so interesting. If this story was just a straight up fight between the two factions, I personally would have no interest in reading it.

With the War of the Five Kings going on, Daenerys could have probably invaded and retaken the Iron Throne, but instead she chose to basically train to become a ruler by first ruling Meereen, so that proves she has patience. In your scenario the odds look heavily in favor of Robert Baratheon winning, he would have The North, The Riverlands, The Vale, The Stormlands, and The Crownlands. The Iron Islands are a wild card, and Olenna Tyrell and Doran Martell wouldn't be stupid enough to support her with the odds heavily stacked against them. So she would be stupid not to wait. 

So basically Daenerys is fucked, unless she waits years and years for her dragons to grow much bigger. Even then she could still loose since it has been proven many a time that dragons aren't invincible. 

Of course if you add things like Young Griff, and the Others, that would probably chance everything, since it is the little things in this world that change the tides of war. 

Not only does Daenerys' decision to wait for her dragons to grow and to learn how to actually rule show patience, it also shows wisdom, emotional intelligence. Above all, it is honest.

Something that people twice or even three times her age (i.e. Stannis, Cersei, Ned, Tyrion, Tywin) sorely lack.

[Pikachu101]

On 7/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

that Baratheon/Lannister/Stark/Tully/Arryn coalition you're talking about would've eaten itself.

Not really, Ned and Jon Arryn may dislike the Lannisters but they would remain loyal to Robert's son, neither Stannis or Hoster would have a reason to rebel either. 

On 7/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

a lot of people called King Robert an usurper and a rebel behind his back

Doesn't mean they'd throw the country into a civil war for a woman with a foreign army, especially as I said before Robert has 5/7 of Westeros behind him. 

On 7/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

If Daenerys Targaryen came back to Westeros with both a large army, a substantial amount of wealth and dragons, the realm would erupt in a civil war

I wouldn't call it a Civil War, it would be more on par with Aegon's conquest. That being said this time the realm is united under one king, Dany doesn't have a Visenya and Rhaenys to ride the other two dragons, her army is made up of foreigners whilst Robert has the native men behind him etc. 

On 7/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, Jabar of House Titan said:

Especially if said dynasty is being headed by a boy (or a young man) and his mother.

It won't just be a boy and his mother though, Robert's son would have Ned Stark, Stannis Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, Hoster Tully, Brynden Tully, Kevan Lannister, Jo Arryn etc. all these men are skilled in war and know Westeros. The only man Dany has whose actually a native Westerosi is the disgraced Jorah Mormont.

 

20 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Something that people twice or even three times her age (i.e. Stannis, Cersei, Ned, Tyrion, Tywin) sorely lack

Disagree with Stannis, from all the contenders he's the only one suited to rule

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Westeros is much more united under Robert I than it will be when Daenerys lands. Sansa's betrothal to Joffrey has tied more Starks,Tullys,Baratheons,Lannisters, Arryns.Stannis and Renly stay loyal to their brother. Robert is very popular king so many will follow him.But there are factors that weaken team Robert:

• Varys. He may still want a Targaryen restoration.
• Littlefinger. He definitely wants to create chaos. He can expose the twincest (arranges for Cersei to be caught on bed with Jaime), organises Jon Arryn's death and frames the Lannisters, increases Joffrey's paranoia,etc. All these mean civil war.
• "Friends in the Reach". Targaryen loyalists still call him Usurper. Dorne will definitely bach her. Tyrells dont get their royal wedding so they can join her along with some of their bannermen. Same for some riverlords.