Robert Baratheon fights a Targaryen invasion?

[Woodstock]

What if Robert and Cersei's children were legitamate, Jon Arryn never died and Westeros was united when one of the Targaryen pretenders invaded, either Daenaerys or Young Griff?

Firstly I think it depends on who invades, I'm going to say Daenaerys and pretend Young Griff doesn't exist.

In this scenario Daenerys gains a horde of Dothraki as well as all other the other troops she has aqquired from Slaver's Bay. Also the white walkers don't invade.

I think because Daenerys has a horde of Dothraki at her back that she will lose. If she brings the Dothraki to Westeros she will not gain any allies in Westeros with the excpetion of Dorne. Also she won't have many proven military commanders while she will be going up against some of the greatest such as Robert, Stannis, Ned, Robb, Tywin and Randyll tarly if the Reach sides with Robert.

I know she has dragons but the dragons would only be small at the time she invades and I reckon someone like Tywin would come up with a plan to neutralise them or maybe Stannis would use Melisandre to get rid of them.

This is how I see the scenario playing out. Dorne joins Daenerys and Quentyn Martell is married to Daenerys. This means the Tyrells probably won't join Daenerys as there is nothing to gain for them as Margary won't become queen. The Northm the Vale, The Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the Crownlands and the Reach side with Robert. Daenerys can't beat the overwhelmingly superior forces and is defeated, either through Tywin assassinating her or being killed on the field of battle.

The only way I can see Daenerys winning is parts of the Reach and all the old Targaryen loyalist houses side with Daenerys, if Ned Dtark has to send men away because Mance Ryder has broken through the wall, and if the Greyjoys decide to take advantage of the chaos and pillage the Westerlands, the North and the Reach which pulls some of Tywins men away.

I reckon the Westeros alliances would also be further secured by marriages, for example Sansa would marry the legitamete Joffrey, Margary would probably marry Renly, Myrcella would probably be bethothed to Robert Arryn, those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

What do you guys think?

 

[FictionIsntReal]

If Daenerys has dragons, why wouldn't she wait until they're larger?

[Woodstock]

30 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

If Daenerys has dragons, why wouldn't she wait until they're larger?

She doesn't strike me as the most patient person. Also I reckon she would have to move quickly as its likely Robert and Tywin would try and have her assassinated when they hear she has dragons.

[Bowen Marsh]

1 hour ago, Woodstock said:

What if Robert and Cersei's children were legitamate, Jon Arryn never died and Westeros was united when one of the Targaryen pretenders invaded, either Daenaerys or Young Griff?

Firstly I think it depends on who invades, I'm going to say Daenaerys and pretend Young Griff doesn't exist.

In this scenario Daenerys gains a horde of Dothraki as well as all other the other troops she has aqquired from Slaver's Bay. Also the white walkers don't invade.

I think because Daenerys has a horde of Dothraki at her back that she will lose. If she brings the Dothraki to Westeros she will not gain any allies in Westeros with the excpetion of Dorne. Also she won't have many proven military commanders while she will be going up against some of the greatest such as Robert, Stannis, Ned, Robb, Tywin and Randyll tarly if the Reach sides with Robert.

I know she has dragons but the dragons would only be small at the time she invades and I reckon someone like Tywin would come up with a plan to neutralise them or maybe Stannis would use Melisandre to get rid of them.

This is how I see the scenario playing out. Dorne joins Daenerys and Quentyn Martell is married to Daenerys. This means the Tyrells probably won't join Daenerys as there is nothing to gain for them as Margary won't become queen. The Northm the Vale, The Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the Crownlands and the Reach side with Robert. Daenerys can't beat the overwhelmingly superior forces and is defeated, either through Tywin assassinating her or being killed on the field of battle.

The only way I can see Daenerys winning is parts of the Reach and all the old Targaryen loyalist houses side with Daenerys, if Ned Dtark has to send men away because Mance Ryder has broken through the wall, and if the Greyjoys decide to take advantage of the chaos and pillage the Westerlands, the North and the Reach which pulls some of Tywins men away.

I reckon the Westeros alliances would also be further secured by marriages, for example Sansa would marry the legitamete Joffrey, Margary would probably marry Renly, Myrcella would probably be bethothed to Robert Arryn, those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

What do you guys think?

 

This is a completely different story.  It's not even in the same universe.  It's not George R. R. Martin's story but instead Woodstock's story.  I, for one, would not be interested in reading this tale.  

[FictionIsntReal]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:28 PM, Woodstock said:

She doesn't strike me as the most patient person. Also I reckon she would have to move quickly as its likely Robert and Tywin would try and have her assassinated when they hear she has dragons.

Danaerys still hasn't tried to invade Westeros yet. Griff & the Golden Company did it without her because they didn't feel like waiting more.

[hodorisfaclessman]

Well lets see then 

Without any questions of legitimacy then stannis and ned are a lot more 'chill' but jon arryn still dies as lf wants chaos to help him climb

Stannis probably stays in kl and remains a counterweight to lf asking questions about the state finances etc...if lf tries to kill him then varys will prob use that as the opening to have robert kill lf , evidence or not hel prob agree on suspicion alone.

Without young griff varys has no motivation to keep danys alive and has her and her bro killed ,no need for a distraction if the heir he wants on the throne isnt alive 

The viper probably comes to kingslanding and posions cersei and/or duels jamie (posion means jamie dies regardless of outcome from a scratch) to get back at tywin.

Or given theres probably gonna be tension between starks and lannisters (lf still has time to send letter and brans still taking a tumble followed by cats dwarfnapping) he probably reaches out to ned

[Pikachu101]

Dragons or not Dany isn't Aegon the Conqueror, Westeros is a united country, and no one wants a Targaryen queen. Varys created conflict in the region because it would be the only way for Aegon to win back the throne, so if Robert had a legitimate son it would be impossible for Dany to win it back.

[The Commentator]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:57 PM, FictionIsntReal said:

If Daenerys has dragons, why wouldn't she wait until they're larger?

She would.  It takes time to build an army large enough to take the throne back from the Baratheons.  

5 hours ago, Pikachu101 said:

Dragons or not Dany isn't Aegon the Conqueror, Westeros is a united country, and no one wants a Targaryen queen. Varys created conflict in the region because it would be the only way for Aegon to win back the throne, so if Robert had a legitimate son it would be impossible for Dany to win it back.

Gotta disagree with you.  People called Robert the Usurper to his back.  It never stopped.  There are people in Westeros who would fight to bring back the Targaryens if they saw a chance of winning.  A member of the royal family who comes to shore with dragons looks like a winning hand and many will flock to her banner.  The Targaryens have the power of tradition and history on their side.  A silver-haired Targaryen who resurrected dragons will be seen as a god-like figure and become an instant celebrity.  

On 6/23/2018 at 12:40 PM, Woodstock said:

What if Robert and Cersei's children were legitamate, Jon Arryn never died and Westeros was united when one of the Targaryen pretenders invaded, either Daenaerys or Young Griff?

Firstly I think it depends on who invades, I'm going to say Daenaerys and pretend Young Griff doesn't exist.

In this scenario Daenerys gains a horde of Dothraki as well as all other the other troops she has aqquired from Slaver's Bay. Also the white walkers don't invade.

I think because Daenerys has a horde of Dothraki at her back that she will lose. If she brings the Dothraki to Westeros she will not gain any allies in Westeros with the excpetion of Dorne. Also she won't have many proven military commanders while she will be going up against some of the greatest such as Robert, Stannis, Ned, Robb, Tywin and Randyll tarly if the Reach sides with Robert.

I know she has dragons but the dragons would only be small at the time she invades and I reckon someone like Tywin would come up with a plan to neutralise them or maybe Stannis would use Melisandre to get rid of them.

This is how I see the scenario playing out. Dorne joins Daenerys and Quentyn Martell is married to Daenerys. This means the Tyrells probably won't join Daenerys as there is nothing to gain for them as Margary won't become queen. The Northm the Vale, The Stormlands, the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the Crownlands and the Reach side with Robert. Daenerys can't beat the overwhelmingly superior forces and is defeated, either through Tywin assassinating her or being killed on the field of battle.

The only way I can see Daenerys winning is parts of the Reach and all the old Targaryen loyalist houses side with Daenerys, if Ned Dtark has to send men away because Mance Ryder has broken through the wall, and if the Greyjoys decide to take advantage of the chaos and pillage the Westerlands, the North and the Reach which pulls some of Tywins men away.

I reckon the Westeros alliances would also be further secured by marriages, for example Sansa would marry the legitamete Joffrey, Margary would probably marry Renly, Myrcella would probably be bethothed to Robert Arryn, those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

What do you guys think?

 

This is a completely different story from the one George RR Martin authored.  

[Universal Sword Donor]

This entirely ignores the GC was supposed to cross with Viserys (or Dany) and the Dothraki.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

16 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

The viper probably comes to kingslanding and posions cersei and/or duels jamie (posion means jamie dies regardless of outcome from a scratch) to get back at tywin.

In a duel to the death Jaime would be in full armor. Which means there is a good chance Oberyn would not be able to pierce it and poison Jaime before he was killed. A healthy two handed Jaime was that good. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

3 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

In a duel to the death Jaime would be in full armor. Which means there is a good chance Oberyn would not be able to pierce it and poison Jaime before he was killed. A healthy two handed Jaime was that good. 

The Mountain probably said the same thing.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

12 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The Mountain probably said the same thing.

A healthy two handed Jaime Lannnister is not the Mountain. They are completely different fighters, with Jaime being much quicker and more skilled. Plus if their golden lion was going to duel Oberyn to the death I believe Tywin, Cersei or Tyrion would have cared a lot more about his health and survival than The Mountain's. Meaning they'd do enough research on Oberyn to find out that he's been accused of poising his blade before in another duel. So they'd force Oberyn to change weapons to prevent any cheating.

Also, Oberyn had been preparing to fight The Mountain for well over a decade and still lost. Without that prep time to train for Jaime I fear "The Viper" wouldn't last long against the best fighter in the Seven Kingdoms.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

A healthy two handed Jaime Lannnister is not the Mountain. They are completely different fighters, with Jaime being much quicker and more skilled. Plus if their golden lion was going to duel Oberyn to the death I believe Tywin, Cersei or Tyrion would have cared a lot more about his health and survival than The Mountain's. Meaning they'd do enough research on Oberyn to find out that he's been accused of poising his blade before in another duel. So they'd force Oberyn to change weapons to prevent any cheating.

Also, Oberyn had been preparing to fight The Mountain for well over a decade and still lost. Without that prep time to train for Jaime I fear "The Viper" wouldn't last long against the best fighter in the Seven Kingdoms.

They are both going to fight in plate with sword and shield. Completely different is a stretch. 

As to Oberyn and his poisoning, they already know. Jaime tells his father as much: "The man's infamous, and not just for poisoning his sword."

As to Jaime winning every time:

* Warriors and Knights: he told me that he was sort of fed up when people wrote to him asking "who's the strongest fighter? Who's the best? Etc." He explained to me that there are some very strong fighters, he only mentioned 3: the 2 Cleganes and Loras.... however, he could not conceive how people could wonder who was the best in a fight, battle or duel.... it just depends in the day, and everything... a fight is part strength and skill, but outside factors weigh much more that those 2.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1264

It'd be a tossup imo, and that's assuming that they use Jaime instead of the Mountain

[BlackLightning]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:28 PM, Woodstock said:

She doesn't strike me as the most patient person. Also I reckon she would have to move quickly as its likely Robert and Tywin would try and have her assassinated when they hear she has dragons.

Tywin already knew that she had dragons; he just didn't care. Not that he could do much of anything about it. By the time he knew, Daenerys had an army of 8,000+, a strong inner circle of warriors and her own mini-khalasar.

Robert on the other hand? Robert would try to either:

• hire one or two Faceless Men (probably bankrupting the Lannisters in the process)
• invade Essos

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:08 AM, Pikachu101 said:

Dragons or not: Dany isn't Aegon the Conqueror, Westeros is a united country, and no one wants a Targaryen queen. Varys created conflict in the region because it would be the only way for Aegon to win back the throne, so if Robert had a legitimate son it would be impossible for Dany to win it back.

I wholeheartedly disagree about the bold part.

I sort of disagree with the green part: there already was chaos and conflict in the capital and the realm as a whole. Varys just wanted more of it. He basically wants to put the realm in the position where they are literally begging for someone, anyone to rid them of the Lannister-Tyrell regime. That way, when Aegon strolls into King's Landing, he'll be fueled by a damn near bottomless supply of goodwill.

The blue part? I agree with that. The realm is going to be very uncomfortable with a ruling queen who also happens to be young (i.e. under the age 25). It doesn't matter if they are Targaryen or not. As a matter of fact, I believe that's part of the reason why Stannis' popularity problem: his heir is female and hardly healthy, at that.

[Universal Sword Donor]

30 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Tywin already knew that she had dragons; he just didn't care. Not that he could do much of anything about it. By the time he knew, Daenerys had an army of 8,000+, a strong inner circle of warriors and her own mini-khalasar.

Robert on the other hand? Robert would try to either:

• hire one or two Faceless Men (probably bankrupting the Lannisters in the process)
• invade Essos

Where are you getting Robert's desire to invade Essos? 

[Leonardo]

I think dragons alone would have huge numbers of people bending the knee; if you see those things soaring above after a lifetime of hearing about Aegon's conquest and all the other stories of dragons, you are dropping your spear and running. Field of Fire is going to start rushing through people's heads and half your army would melt away when the Dothraki come stampeding down from a hillside. Lords like Frey would immediately side with the dragons. What right to a throne created by a dragon can Robert really call when Dany actually has them?

[hodorisfaclessman]

23 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

In a duel to the death Jaime would be in full armor. Which means there is a good chance Oberyn would not be able to pierce it and poison Jaime before he was killed. A healthy two handed Jaime was that good. 

True but the viper is top tier too 

Moree than likely the viper strikes tywin first though

[Bowen Marsh]

6 hours ago, Leonardo said:

I think dragons alone would have huge numbers of people bending the knee; if you see those things soaring above after a lifetime of hearing about Aegon's conquest and all the other stories of dragons, you are dropping your spear and running. Field of Fire is going to start rushing through people's heads and half your army would melt away when the Dothraki come stampeding down from a hillside. Lords like Frey would immediately side with the dragons. What right to a throne created by a dragon can Robert really call when Dany actually has them?

Amen to the bolded comment.  How true.  Robert used his blood ties to the Targaryens to lay claim to the throne.  Now along comes a blonde haired Targaryen with dragons.  Robert's claims of legitimacy vanishes instantly.   

[BlackLightning]

17 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Where are you getting Robert's desire to invade Essos? 

From his deep hatred and fear of Daenerys Targaryen.

He had set a very good spy on her when he heard that she was getting married to the most powerful Dothraki khal in what seems to be living memory. Then, he hired an assassin to kill her after he heard that she was pregnant.

What on Earth do you think he would've done if he heard that she had three baby dragons?!

Also, factoring into my belief that Robert would've tried to invade Essos is:

1. his love of war (that's the only time he acted kingly) and his almost enthusiastic reaction to the Greyjoy Rebellion
2. his ongoing fascination with the Summer Islands. Jalabhar Xho had been in King's Landing for a long time because Robert was interested in helping him reclaim his birthright and thus annex the Summer Islands into the Seven Kingdoms.

Just because Robert tried to organize and lead an invasion of Essos, it doesn't mean it would've worked. Much of his court had adverse reaction to Robert's delusional tourneys of grandeur. A war and a manhunt overseas halfway across the world? No.

I think that at the very least, he would have tried to go over to Essos himself (maybe with Ned and a couple of other high-ranking lord-generals and knights) and hired a sellsword company and done it himself.

Remember, Robert already wanted to step away from the throne and get back into action and go have sellsword adventures in Essos. The only thing that stopped him is the fact that Cersei would then be ruling the country. Give him a good of reason however...

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

From his deep hatred and fear of Daenerys Targaryen.

He had set a very good spy on her when he heard that she was getting married to the most powerful Dothraki khal in what seems to be living memory. Then, he hired an assassin to kill her after he heard that she was pregnant.

What on Earth do you think he would've done if he heard that she had three baby dragons?!

Also, factoring into my belief that Robert would've tried to invade Essos is:

1. his love of war (that's the only time he acted kingly) and his almost enthusiastic reaction to the Greyjoy Rebellion
2. his ongoing fascination with the Summer Islands. Jalabhar Xho had been in King's Landing for a long time because Robert was interested in helping him reclaim his birthright and thus annex the Summer Islands into the Seven Kingdoms.

Just because Robert tried to organize and lead an invasion of Essos, it doesn't mean it would've worked. Much of his court had adverse reaction to Robert's delusional tourneys of grandeur. A war and a manhunt overseas halfway across the world? No.

I think that at the very least, he would have tried to go over to Essos himself (maybe with Ned and a couple of other high-ranking lord-generals and knights) and hired a sellsword company and done it himself.

Remember, Robert already wanted to step away from the throne and get back into action and go have sellsword adventures in Essos. The only thing that stopped him is the fact that Cersei would then be ruling the country. Give him a good of reason however...

So there's basically no basis for an invasion of Essos?