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Who will Sansa marry?


Arya Greyjoy

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Another pairing I’ve speculated about is Edric Dayne. He’s a nice enough guy close to her age, Arya might give him a recommendation, and it would be a nice twist after all the rumors about Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne.

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I like Pod. His symbolism isn't great though - he's a mini-me to Ilyn Payne (tongue-tied, bad skin, sword across the back, very deadly). Ilyn is a Death-as-Justice figure (something Sansa has reason to fear even without her heartfelt terror of Ilyn himself). The symbolism of a Pod-Sansa marriage would be King's Justice X Winter - not very life-affirming, not very springlike.

Tyrion, Sandor and Jon all appear to have some foreshadowing for a Sansa marriage, and they're all very problematic as husband material. These foreshadowings may be fulfilled in some way, or they may remain might-have-beens, or morrows-not-made etc. But if these foreshadowings exist (and I believe they do), then GRRM must also have written foreshadowing for Sansa's true match, and there's nothing else there; only the repeated motif of a boy in blue. Blue is not a lucky colour: it's ice and death; - the blue boy does not mean a happy marriage for Sansa. So what's left? I honestly think she might not marry. Or she might die.

7 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

The police refer to suspects as adult or juvenile males and females.

Well I for one wish they wouldn't. Language really does shape thought, and the police above all need to keep the humanity of civilians upmost in their minds. (That might be hard when the civilians are behaving like wild beasts at the time.)

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2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Well I for one wish they wouldn't. Language really does shape thought, and the police above all need to keep the humanity of civilians upmost in their minds. (That might be hard when the civilians are behaving like wild beasts at the time.)

It's a neutral descriptive term, it's been used as long as the English language has existed and it lacks any connotation whatsoever.  Your character portrait has that information unless you refrained from putting it in your profile (or didn't bother).  I'm really not getting this.

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5 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

It's a neutral descriptive term, it's been used as long as the English language has existed and it lacks any connotation whatsoever.  Your character portrait has that information unless you refrained from putting it in your profile (or didn't bother).  I'm really not getting this.

I didn't get it either. BUT martin's books were written before the main stream transgender and pangender dialogue.

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11 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

It's a neutral descriptive term, it's been used as long as the English language has existed and it lacks any connotation whatsoever.  Your character portrait has that information unless you refrained from putting it in your profile (or didn't bother).  I'm really not getting this.

I'm trying to say, 'man', 'woman', 'child' all have positive connotations of human history, and rights, and a shared human experience, and those meanings don't appear in 'male' or 'female' which are just the biology we share with all animals. That could change; language evolves, but right now there are still a lot of sexists out there, and a barnyard vocabulary will not help them understand.

The profile is fine - it says gender: female, and that is accurate and precise. It doesn't make it my whole identity.

11 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I didn't get it either. BUT martin's books were written before the main stream transgender and pangender dialogue.

I'm guessing it was feminists who brought the whole 'female' thing in, to sidestep misuse of the word 'girl'. I think it was a mistake, personally, but hopefully it will all work out in the long run.

Bored yet? I certainly am; let's move on. :)

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On 7/25/2018 at 12:50 PM, Springwatch said:

Agree totally. Sansa Stark is the key to the north, as Tywin (I think) said.

People forget this despite the fact that it’s yhe most important factor when deciding who Sansa will marry 

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On 7/25/2018 at 2:23 PM, the trees have eyes said:

Men are male, women are female, I hope we can avoid protesting about dehumanization over this.  The police refer to suspects as adult or juvenile males and females.

If you are unaware of the shift towards referring to women as females  in a bid to reduce them to sex object then let me be the one to refer you to that trend. 

Female is an adjective. Woman is a noun.  It's bad grammar for a start. It erases the subject; the woman.  Which is why it has become so popular amongst said young men who wish to dehumanise the women whom they are targeting. 

It is a term which without specific clarification could as I pointed out refer to any female animal which is dehumanising. You could mean a cat, a cow, a donkey. By referring to women as females you are also reducing us to our reproductive class, ie: Sexualy objectifying us. 

It is a trend and the intention behind it can be ascertained by tracing it back to where it started. It is a relatively recent phenomenon and the backlash of women beginning to use Male in the same manner is another telling marker for why it is so rude to do it. 

I a professional setting the word is used to describe suspects say or patients. The reasons for this are clear and entirely separate to the use by the general public to which we are referring. 

I suspect non of this is surprising to anyone as you'd have to have been living under a rock to have missed the upsurge in female as a way to express misogyny. 

Pretending it isn't rude as fuck won't change the fact it is. 

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On 6/26/2018 at 1:14 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

She'll marry Loras and then they'll both be gay.

And they can even talk about how handsome Renly was,  together. 

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On 7/26/2018 at 12:16 PM, Springwatch said:

 

I'm guessing it was feminists who brought the whole 'female' thing in, to sidestep misuse of the word 'girl'. I think it was a mistake, personally, but hopefully it will all work out in the long run.

Bored yet? I certainly am; let's move on. :)

Nope, not feminists. It actually has a long history as being perceived as a rude way to refer to women. ANd the recent popularity of it stems from young american males and it has spread from there. It's a way to reduce us to our reproductive class. Any animal can be female but only a female human can be a woman.  So by using female rather than woman you dehumanise her. 

Feminists have long argued against the use of Girl when referring to adult human females. AKA: Women. But the solution of choice is to say Woman when you mean an adults. One of the worst culprits for infantalising women is the obstetric setting.  But Girls is used all to often outside of the delivery room too  a recent example from my own life where the accountant came in to show us a new book keeping system and repeatedly called our team girls, we are aged between 37 & 52. 

Yes lets move on! I mean surely if someone tells you that a word is in this context is offensive and explains why the polite thing to do would be to say OK I never realised and stop using it? As opposed to arguing that the person is wrong and telling them to stop being offended. 

But hey it's the internet where half the human race seems to have decided that manners are unimportant.

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2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

If you are unaware of the shift towards referring to women as females  in a bid to reduce them to sex object then let me be the one to refer you to that trend. 

Female is an adjective. Woman is a noun.  It's bad grammar for a start. It erases the subject; the woman.  Which is why it has become so popular amongst said young men who wish to dehumanise the women whom they are targeting. 

It is a term which without specific clarification could as I pointed out refer to any female animal which is dehumanising. You could mean a cat, a cow, a donkey. By referring to women as females you are also reducing us to our reproductive class, ie: Sexualy objectifying us. 

It is a trend and the intention behind it can be ascertained by tracing it back to where it started. It is a relatively recent phenomenon and the backlash of women beginning to use Male in the same manner is another telling marker for why it is so rude to do it. 

I a professional setting the word is used to describe suspects say or patients. The reasons for this are clear and entirely separate to the use by the general public to which we are referring. 

I suspect non of this is surprising to anyone as you'd have to have been living under a rock to have missed the upsurge in female as a way to express misogyny. 

Pretending it isn't rude as fuck won't change the fact it is. 

Maybe I do live under a rock.  Or more likely my age and background mean I don't move in circles where I've encountered this at all.

Seems to me you are politicizing language and demanding people abide by your rules at the risk of facing ugly accusations  (a phenomenon called political correctness that I am familiar with).

I don't accept that the way it was used in this thread was "rude as fuck" at all.  Nor do I accept the idea that someone saying "males to the left, females to the right" has any connotation at all.

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56 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

Maybe I do live under a rock.  Or more likely my age and background mean I don't move in circles where I've encountered this at all.

Seems to me you are politicizing language and demanding people abide by your rules at the risk of facing ugly accusations  (a phenomenon called political correctness that I am familiar with).

I don't accept that the way it was used in this thread was "rude as fuck" at all.  Nor do I accept the idea that someone saying "males to the left, females to the right" has any connotation at all.

Let's get back on topic, shall we? Please?

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17 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

Maybe I do live under a rock.  Or more likely my age and background mean I don't move in circles where I've encountered this at all.

Seems to me you are politicizing language and demanding people abide by your rules at the risk of facing ugly accusations  (a phenomenon called political correctness that I am familiar with).

I don't accept that the way it was used in this thread was "rude as fuck" at all.  Nor do I accept the idea that someone saying "males to the left, females to the right" has any connotation at all.

I'm not demanding anything. I have explained why it is an unpleasant way to talk about women.  And I have explained the way it has become common parlance for the special kind of sad twat you find reading blogs about picking up "females" by negging and then has creeped into usage by the general population.   I have not demanded anything. 

You might not think it is rude to remove a woman's humanity  by using the generic term female when  referring to women in a non institutionalised setting.  But lots of women do, pointing that out doesn't make me the PC police. Just a woman who doesn't like being busted down to the same category as livestock and who has patiently explained why several times now. 

I mentioned it on page bloody 4! and the person who I mentioned it to made it clear they didn't care about the negative connotations and would continue to refer to human women as females. And anyone who cares to look will note I didn't say a word. I dropped it. No demands where made. 

You brought it back up. I again and in greater detail carefully explained how it has been adopted to dehumanise and degrade women in exactly the same way as bitches; in fact in some circles it is simply used as short hand for bitch. A way of swearing when you would not otherwise get away with it female dog = bitch. 

 And for gods sake yes, get back on topic! 

 

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The reason why threads about who Sansa will end up with always revert to SanSan is because that is the direction her romantic interest lies and no matter how much people dislike it it is what is in the actual story. 

When you look at the story; the one between them, it clearly follows a romance format. You can break it down to the formula of a mills & Boon or any other romance novel or rom com.  And that is something lots of readers don't like. They don't want to accept that GRRM likes romance stories. 

Tough shit he does and he is very open about that. He has talked about how he is a romantic, he likes romance, ASOIAF is a romance, He finds it irritating how maligned the romance genre is. etc etc.  He's woven the classic format into Sansa's arc and he has done it very cleverly. Yes he's used B&TB and he has done so repeatedly throughout his career. He loves that story. 

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Here's my fan theory.

Sansa will marry Harry the Heir under her fictional name of Alayne (or whatever it was) but given her previous marriage to Tyrion, Sansa will be able to claim the Westerlands and bring peace between it and the rest of Westeros, kind of similar to how Joanna Lannister after the Dance could reconciliate the West with the Iron Throne as the new Lady Lannister, or at least I hope so. :unsure:

The reason I think that is that I feel that Sansa being married to Tyrion is important as she's courted by Harry the Heir under another name, meaning that it isn't really Sansa who is courted. And I feel like it would be a kind of GRRM twist if Tywin's plan to use Sansa to claim the North for House Lannister ends up with Sansa claiming the West instead.

And to this I feel like, or think so, that power is being turned from the hands of aristocratic men towards previously marginalized people. And that perhaps it just me, but I can't see Tyrion getting the West. He's so hated and despised that that I simply don't think he would be able to survive such much hate when he craves love. And Jaime don't want it and Cersei is to incompetent to be able to hold it, thus I think that Tyrion's wife could make a go for it. I know that I may be daydreaming but its a nice dream.

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8 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

The reason why threads about who Sansa will end up with always revert to SanSan is because that is the direction her romantic interest lies and no matter how much people dislike it it is what is in the actual story. 

When you look at the story; the one between them, it clearly follows a romance format. You can break it down to the formula of a mills & Boon or any other romance novel or rom com.  And that is something lots of readers don't like. They don't want to accept that GRRM likes romance stories. 

 

I wouldn't think that having one love interest attempt to rape another is part of a good relationship. Makes me wonder why people like Fifty Shades of Grey.

Though you do have a point regarding Sansa's type. She seems to like jerks:

  • Waymar Royce, whom Sansa had a crush on when he visited Winterfell: Disrespectful to his comrades, only put in command because his father would raise a hissy-fit
  • Joffrey Baratheon, who she was betrothed to and fell head-over heels for: Sadist, ordered her father's death and forced her to look on her father's head, had his bodyguards beat her
  • Sandor "The Hound" Clegane: Unpleasant to talk to, tried to rape her
  • Lords Tyrell, whom she was attracted to: Arrogant, not interested in her
  • Harrold "Harry the Heir" Hardyng, whom she is currently betrothed: Sired two bastards and is callous towards the mother of one of them, insults Sansa/Alayne for her bastard status
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33 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I wouldn't think that having one love interest attempt to rape another is part of a good relationship. Makes me wonder why people like Fifty Shades of Grey.

Though you do have a point regarding Sansa's type. She seems to like jerks:

  • Waymar Royce: Disrespectful to his comrades, only put in command because his father would raise a hissy-fit
  • Joffrey Baratheon: Sadist, ordered her father's death and forced her to look on her father's head, had his bodyguards beat her
  • Sandor "The Hound" Clegane: Unpleasant to talk to, tried to rape her
  • Loras Tyrell: Arrogant, not interested in her
  • Harrold "Harry the Heir" Hardyng: Sired two bastards and is callous towards the mother of one of them, insults Sansa/Alayne for her bastard status

I hope you don't mind if I jump in here.

The problem with this is that...

1, We have no reason to think that Waymar or Loras were unkind to her or anyone she saw or knew

2, After Eddard's beheading Sansa is totally disillisioned with Joffrey and as you may recall he was very gallant to her at the start of the story

3, She knew that Sandor was hurt by his brother (which can trigger empathy in alot of people), she knew that Sandor was not without a kind of honor and tried to protect her as I recall, as much as he could, from Joffrey. Don't get where the "tried to rape" comes from.

4. People complain that Sansa lives/lived in a fairlytale, so now she's out and accepts that young male aristocrats tend to be arrogant jerks with a rotten view of women. She she accepts that Harry the Heiir whom she might marry won't be a gallant knight but probably a kind of asshole, and everyone picks on bastards, to not do so is what's worth mentioing.

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13 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

I hope you don't mind if I jump in here.

The problem with this is that...

1, We have no reason to think that Waymar or Loras were unkind to her or anyone she saw or knew

2, After Eddard's beheading Sansa is totally disillisioned with Joffrey and as you may recall he was very gallant to her at the start of the story

3, She knew that Sandor was hurt by his brother (which can trigger empathy in alot of people), she knew that Sandor was not without a kind of honor and tried to protect her as I recall, as much as he could, from Joffrey. Don't get where the "tried to rape" comes from.

4. People complain that Sansa lives/lived in a fairlytale, so now she's out and accepts that young male aristocrats tend to be arrogant jerks with a rotten view of women. She she accepts that Harry the Heiir whom she might marry won't be a gallant knight but probably a kind of asshole, and everyone picks on bastards, to not do so is what's worth mentioing.

 

3. Sandor says that he came up to Sansa's room during the Battle of the Blackwater to rape her, but her song stopped him. He also did put a knife to her throat.

My point is that the guys she likes are almost always some sort of jerk.

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8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

My point is that the guys she likes are almost always some sort of jerk.

Yep, poor Sansa, with her fantasies of princes is now in the clutches of LF.     LF, the owner of brothels.  --- Sansa, the 13 year old orphan fugitive now know as Alynne is safe and secure in the Vale.

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