The Expanse #4: Amazon Rising (spoilers for book only up to last episode)

[Mladen]

All right... I have just finished Season 4 and what a marvelous journey it has been. It was intense from first to the very last frame. And they ended on such a cliffhanger that I can't wait for Season 5.

[briantw]

5 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

... Burn Gorman is a classic asshole

He's a fookin' legend. 

[Werthead]

Generally great stuff but bit iffy on the choice for the ending.

Spoiler

I think it's far more effective when you don't know what's coming. If they wanted to do the foreshadowing, they could have followed the suggestion that the rocks are headed to Ceres and Tycho and spent early Season 5 setting that up rather than the real target.

Looks like they've also increased the rocks from three to eight, which seems like an OTT escalation.

Interesting question now if they can get Jared Harris back to do more episodes. Clever how they kept mentioning him and Johnson without showing either, so you thought neither were going to appear, then they managed to get Coleman back for one episode.

[GallowKnight]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Generally great stuff but bit iffy on the choice for the ending.

  Reveal hidden contents

I think it's far more effective when you don't know what's coming. If they wanted to do the foreshadowing, they could have followed the suggestion that the rocks are headed to Ceres and Tycho and spent early Season 5 setting that up rather than the real target.

Looks like they've also increased the rocks from three to eight, which seems like an OTT escalation.

Interesting question now if they can get Jared Harris back to do more episodes. Clever how they kept mentioning him and Johnson without showing either, so you thought neither were going to appear, then they managed to get Coleman back for one episode.

Spoiler

Yeah I agree. I also feel like a lot of impact is going to be lost by not having Amos on the planet when the rocks hit.

 

[Corvinus85]

4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Generally great stuff but bit iffy on the choice for the ending.

  Hide contents

I think it's far more effective when you don't know what's coming. If they wanted to do the foreshadowing, they could have followed the suggestion that the rocks are headed to Ceres and Tycho and spent early Season 5 setting that up rather than the real target.

Looks like they've also increased the rocks from three to eight, which seems like an OTT escalation.

Interesting question now if they can get Jared Harris back to do more episodes. Clever how they kept mentioning him and Johnson without showing either, so you thought neither were going to appear, then they managed to get Coleman back for one episode.

Spoiler

Yeah, they should have ended it with the rock being thrown, without giving us the destination. 

To be fair, I trust the writers enough to make the viewer believe that maybe the rocks will be stopped in time.

Future book spoilers in both my hidden posts!!!!!

1 hour ago, GallowKnight said:

  Hide contents

Yeah I agree. I also feel like a lot of impact is going to be lost by not having Amos on the planet when the rocks hit.

 

Spoiler

Don't be so sure. The rocks were thrown from the Belt, and have no thrust. Realistically, it should take them months. The Roci will presumably be under thrust the whole trip back, and even if they make a pit stop, they could still get there in time

 

[briantw]

Spoiler

Yeah, I can't imagine them not doing the Amos plot line on Earth because it's one of the best parts of the entire series.

 

[Corvinus85]

10 minutes ago, briantw said:

  Hide contents

Yeah, I can't imagine them not doing the Amos plot line on Earth because it's one of the best parts of the entire series.

 

Spoiler

Not to mention they set it up in Amos's first scene in this season.

 

[Leofric]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

Generally great stuff but bit iffy on the choice for the ending.

  Reveal hidden contents

I think it's far more effective when you don't know what's coming. If they wanted to do the foreshadowing, they could have followed the suggestion that the rocks are headed to Ceres and Tycho and spent early Season 5 setting that up rather than the real target.

Looks like they've also increased the rocks from three to eight, which seems like an OTT escalation.

Interesting question now if they can get Jared Harris back to do more episodes. Clever how they kept mentioning him and Johnson without showing either, so you thought neither were going to appear, then they managed to get Coleman back for one episode.

They have certainly set it up for Jared Harris' return

Spoiler

Ashford goes out in style and Anderson Dawes loses his representative at the Ring, so makes sense for him to show  up, if only to introduce Ashford's replacement for his faction.

 

[Mladen]

Thinking about this season, I am astonished by the lack of real fear regarding 1300 new planets.

From Nancy Gao to both Inners and Belters, it seems that everyone just see the opportunity and no one actually sees the danger. And as a biochemist, let me tell you, I can think of 10 different things that can go wrong with our bodies in such different surroundings, some of which have been explored by this season's narrative.

I mean, we take shots when we have to go to other parts of OUR PLANET. Can you imagine what preparations your immune system would need for INTERPLANETARY migration?

[GallowKnight]

9 hours ago, Corvinus said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Don't be so sure. The rocks were thrown from the Belt, and have no thrust. Realistically, it should take them months. The Roci will presumably be under thrust the whole trip back, and even if they make a pit stop, they could still get there in time

 

Well that's reassuring at least.

[Kalbear]

17 hours ago, Risto said:

Thinking about this season, I am astonished by the lack of real fear regarding 1300 new planets.

From Nancy Gao to both Inners and Belters, it seems that everyone just see the opportunity and no one actually sees the danger. And as a biochemist, let me tell you, I can think of 10 different things that can go wrong with our bodies in such different surroundings, some of which have been explored by this season's narrative.

I mean, we take shots when we have to go to other parts of OUR PLANET. Can you imagine what preparations your immune system would need for INTERPLANETARY migration?

Sure, but when did scientists warning people actually ever work?

[karaddin]

I've finished it now and agree it was a great season and they absolutely managed to smooth the flaws in the source material.

Book spoilers up to Nemesis Games below

Spoiler

That's just straight up cruel where they left Avasarala and Arjun - their last time together being in turmoil with him refusing to go to Luna with her. I found the loss of him painful enough in the book without this layered on top

Just show spoilers for the end of season in this one

Spoiler

They absolutely got the casting right for Marco. I hate the fucker already but I can also see he's exactly the right type to seduce people into following him. Brook phrased it as he's a young Stalin type including the good looks that young Josef had.

Really quite gutted about Ashford as well. They took a one note character from the book, gave him a fantastic actor and a plot line with Drummer that ends with them being friends and allies and it was a far better arc than the book. Then we get that death. He went to it like a pirate that has always known he'd walk the plank eventually, which is exactly what he was. 

Avasarala allowed to fully articulate her book dialogue was also fantastic. I die for Shohrehs voice.

[Jace, Extat]

The minute they introduced Marco I was ready to blow up the Hague myself.

[Mladen]

The more I think about this season, the more I like it. It is such beautiful story - it is not pretentious, but speaking about big ideas kinda like Tolkien, it is imaginative but working with real people in the same vein as Martin. It's a wonderful story about humans, their ideals and their mistakes and it is so brilliant in making things complicated. This is how you do a spectacle. This is how you put the characters, their stories and growth first and then use the money you have to provide the cinematic experience we all enjoy. 

I am so in love with this season...

[mcbigski]

Season 4 was a slow start but at some point Ilus just gets so fucking bonkers that its awesome.  

[Kalbear]

Yeah, they really did a good job with this season, and 10 eps was just about perfect. 

Some thoughts on how they diverged (keeping it in spoilers for the first week or so)

•  

Spoiler

 

• Thank GOD that they got rid of that stupid "Elvi is horny and wants to fuck Holden" garbage. Expanding horniness with showing more of Wei (and showing Amos more) was entirely the right choice.
• I'm a bit sad we didn't get Basia or Miller's ex partner, but that's probably hard to do with other acting requirements
• I'm also a bit sad we don't get Naomi's attempt to sabotage the Israel and then the rescue of Naomi later, but mostly because I wanted more Naomi. As it was, she got a decent amount of action
• The floating fart bubble scene would have been cool tho
• The way they did the Miller interludes was absolutely rocking and a great way of using the visual medium
• Not sure Murtry needed the financial incentive as motivation. It was fine, but not amazing
• Wish they had kept in the death slug explanation a bit more (the idea of frogs emerging from dry environment to wet ones was a good one)

I'm not sure I liked Bobbie going from martian superhero and being very much about the law to 'lets do crimes', but it gave her more action to do and that was cool. 

Avasarala's turn as ruthless politician was awesome. Arjun is cool and nice, but seriously dude, what did you expect? I'm not surprised she lost, and it went well with the actual events in the book and her forecasting ruin for Mars.

Mostly, the best new bits were with Ashford and Drummer and their hunt for Inaros while dealing with UN crap. Ashford was absolutely killer and I love they brought him back, especially in this role. 

Also also, wow are the space scenes amazing, especially compared to previous seasons. They're right out of Gravity. Just gorgeous shots.

 

 

 

[Werthead]

19 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, they really did a good job with this season, and 10 eps was just about perfect. 

Some thoughts on how they diverged (keeping it in spoilers for the first week or so)

•  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Thank GOD that they got rid of that stupid "Elvi is horny and wants to fuck Holden" garbage. Expanding horniness with showing more of Wei (and showing Amos more) was entirely the right choice.
• I'm a bit sad we didn't get Basia or Miller's ex partner, but that's probably hard to do with other acting requirements
• I'm also a bit sad we don't get Naomi's attempt to sabotage the Israel and then the rescue of Naomi later, but mostly because I wanted more Naomi. As it was, she got a decent amount of action
• The floating fart bubble scene would have been cool tho
• The way they did the Miller interludes was absolutely rocking and a great way of using the visual medium
• Not sure Murtry needed the financial incentive as motivation. It was fine, but not amazing
• Wish they had kept in the death slug explanation a bit more (the idea of frogs emerging from dry environment to wet ones was a good one)

I'm not sure I liked Bobbie going from martian superhero and being very much about the law to 'lets do crimes', but it gave her more action to do and that was cool. 

Avasarala's turn as ruthless politician was awesome. Arjun is cool and nice, but seriously dude, what did you expect? I'm not surprised she lost, and it went well with the actual events in the book and her forecasting ruin for Mars.

Mostly, the best new bits were with Ashford and Drummer and their hunt for Inaros while dealing with UN crap. Ashford was absolutely killer and I love they brought him back, especially in this role. 

Also also, wow are the space scenes amazing, especially compared to previous seasons. They're right out of Gravity. Just gorgeous shots.

 

 

 

Spoiler

Bobbie's story is from one of the side-novellas, I believe, Gods of Risk, but that novella was set earlier, between Books 2 and 3 so I think for character development purposes it didn't entirely work being moved later.

Basia being changed was because they cast him in Season 3 but couldn't get the actor back, so rather than recast - which they could have gotten away with as it was so minor - they decided to go in a different direction.

[Corvinus85]

33 minutes ago, Werthead said:

  Hide contents

Bobbie's story is from one of the side-novellas, I believe, Gods of Risk, but that novella was set earlier, between Books 2 and 3 so I think for character development purposes it didn't entirely work being moved later.

Basia being changed was because they cast him in Season 3 but couldn't get the actor back, so rather than recast - which they could have gotten away with as it was so minor - they decided to go in a different direction.

They did recast Arjun, so they could have done Basia, too. I thought Lucia Mazur was a fantastic character, though. (Also, I've always imagined Basia as a well-built dude, and the guy they had cast in season 2 was underwhelming in his one scene) 

Where's @Jace, Basilissa with #malegenocide?

[SpaceChampion]

I wished they'd mentioned Katoa.  Basia / Lucia's grief and guilt about not being there to save him would have reminded viewers of the costs of getting this far in the story / through the rings.

[Kalbear]

On gods of risk:

Spoiler

I know that that's where david came from, but her going into crime is entirely new, and pretty against Bobbie in the books for the most part. She does free david from his debt, but mostly by being a badass and david cooking a lot more. 

I dont mind it as much because we get her as a view into Mars failing and part of Nemesis Games too, but it was a bit odd comparing book Bobbie to show bobbie. Then again she didnt get drummed out due to the ring stuff in the book, so that kind of makes more sense.