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The Expanse #4: Amazon Rising (spoilers for book only up to last episode)


Corvinus85

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On 10/10/2020 at 4:32 AM, Heartofice said:

The same sort of magic telepathy I guess that allows me to predict that you almost never engage anyone on anything they have actually said, but instead throw around accusations of racism or bigotry because that is a much easier way to shut people down? Yes I guess I have seen that pattern before. Or is it because you rarely actually say what you mean, you instead assume others behave in the same way as you?

Either way, I am giving up a valid criticism of an actress I believe to be woefully out of her depth and whose performances tend to spoil what could have been an important and mesmeric role. I could name any number of foreign female actresses who regularly give fantastic performances and who are 100 times her superior, so your argument doesn't really hold any water. 

But then would they look so good in colourful dresses, which we all know is the true measure of an actress. 

I’ve watched four seasons of “The Expanse” and I’ve enjoyed the performances.  I love that they’ve made Aversavrala a higher profile character fromthe start.  The actress who plays her does a great job.  

The fact that she is a non-native English speaker is accurate for the role because Aversavrala’s first language... wasn’t English.  Why would her cadences as a non-native speaker be problematic?

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On 10/10/2020 at 5:33 PM, Heartofice said:

Again those are the terms you are putting it in and I’m sure how you can see your own dishonesty, suggesting I have a problem simply because she is foreign. I don’t, i could easily replace her with any number of actresses for whom English is not their first language and I’m sure they would do a better job.

But the way she performs lines, it’s as if she is struggling with English as her first language, which is how I couched it. It really is. She drawls out everything in a strange monotone, emphasising the wrong words and unable to communicate simple emotions. 
 

And again, yeah I do think there are objective things I can judge her on. Her ability to communicate, perform lines, act with other people. She doesn’t tick those boxes in The Expanse I’m afraid.

As for the rest of her career.. I’m not sure what you are seeing when you talk about her career. There is little shame in being a middling actress with some bit parts in long running network tv shows and getting a few scenes in a couple of sci fi movies off the back of the Expance.. but that’s all there is really.

House of Sand and Fog, again, she’s barely even in it, and speaks mostly in Iranian or in purposely broken English which doesn’t help your point. I guess she got an Emmy for House of Saddam, a show I’ve literally never heard of ( despite apparently being a BBC production ) and which from the clips I’ve seen looks like trash. Anyway I’d have thought by now we’d have learnt that awards are not given out for talent.. just to read any of the Oscars threads.

But enough derailment of the thread, I’m sure this is as tiresome for everyone else as it is for me.  Enjoy Season 5 everyone, let me know how it goes and if it is hopefully a big improvement on the last season

Farsi.  She speaks Farsi.  “Iranian” is no more a language than “American” is a language.

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44 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This is a gut punch. I'm worried that the final season will feel rushed, like Rome's season two, and be a drop in quality.

Pissed that Cas Anvar proved to be such a dickhead. I wonder how much him not being in the show has influenced this decision. 

Book spoilers below

Spoiler

I suppose we won't have the massive time jump, which is fine, but I think we won't have a lot of the Laconian plots in the final season. It depends on how exactly season 5 goes, where it finishes. 

I hope for a 13 episode final season.

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39 minutes ago, Ran said:

Didn't the showrunner indicate the 5th season is drawing from both books 5 and 6? Which, depending on how far that goes, suggests they're going to use the final books to form a final season.

They've already started a lot of book 5 in season 4.  Season 5 covering all of books 5 and 6 sounds pretty doable. 

Finishing up the remaining three books in just one season however, is going to require a lot of rewriting and condensing.  Hard to imagine they're really going to stick the landing there.  Is it possible that they're

Spoiler

Going to cut out the Laconians altogether?  That would avoid the need for the 30 year gap, which is super awkward for a TV show.  Then they can basically write whatever they want with the 3 factions of earth, mars and belt, plus the upcoming conflict with the Roman-killers.  You could easily have either Mars or the Belt experimenting with Roman tech, and that is what starts the whole mess.  We'd be looking at a total rewrite of the final 3 books, but it would be possible.

 

Because otherwise, it really doesn't sound possible to do in one season:

Beginning of season: Introduce 30 year gap, introduce Laconians, Laconians defeat Earth+Mars.  The Roci crew is kinda passive here, which isn't great.

Middle of season:  Establish Laconian rule in the ring-space.  Have the Roci lead the rebellion against said rule, Clarissa dies, steal Laconian destroyer.  Use destroyer to raze Laconian shipyards.  Destroy dreadnaught with antimatter.  Bobbi dies.  Establish who Duarte and Corazon are, and show their fate.  This is SUPER confused and would be expensive to shoot.   

End of season:  All of book 9, whatever that is. 

Sounds like a complete mess.  You'd do better leaving out the Laconians.  The more I think about it, I think that would be a survivable cut.  People don't need a new faction this late in the game.

 

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2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

They've already started a lot of book 5 in season 4.  Season 5 covering all of books 5 and 6 sounds pretty doable. 

Finishing up the remaining three books in just one season however, is going to require a lot of rewriting and condensing.  Hard to imagine they're really going to stick the landing there.  Is it possible that they're

  Hide contents

Going to cut out the Laconians altogether?  That would avoid the need for the 30 year gap, which is super awkward for a TV show.  Then they can basically write whatever they want with the 3 factions of earth, mars and belt, plus the upcoming conflict with the Roman-killers.  You could easily have either Mars or the Belt experimenting with Roman tech, and that is what starts the whole mess.  We'd be looking at a total rewrite of the final 3 books, but it would be possible.

 

Because otherwise, it really doesn't sound possible to do in one season:

Beginning of season: Introduce 30 year gap, introduce Laconians, Laconians defeat Earth+Mars.  The Roci crew is kinda passive here, which isn't great.

Middle of season:  Establish Laconian rule in the ring-space.  Have the Roci lead the rebellion against said rule, Clarissa dies, steal Laconian destroyer.  Use destroyer to raze Laconian shipyards.  Destroy dreadnaught with antimatter.  Bobbi dies.  Establish who Duarte and Corazon are, and show their fate.  This is SUPER confused and would be expensive to shoot.   

End of season:  All of book 9, whatever that is. 

It doesn't sound possible, IMO without it being a complete mess.  You'd do better leaving out the Laconians.  The more I think about it, I think that would be a survivable cut.  People don't need a new faction this late in the game. 

 

 

If we lived in a just society you would have your tongue removed for even suggesting such rampant heresy.

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1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

If we lived in a just society you would have your tongue removed for even suggesting such rampant heresy.

Whatever, I don't think there are many people out there reading (or watching) the expanse to learn more about

Spoiler

the Laconians.  They were always a hard left turn for the series.

 

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Interesting news. My gut feeling is that whether or not Season 6 will be a mess depends on if the showrunners knew that they were likely to only get one more season when writing season 5. If not... season 6 is going to be a bumpy ride.

But if they did and if they lay the groundwork well in season 5, I'm not against a more streamlined version of the show. The book series didn't need 9 books, and this show doesn't ultimately need nine seasons.

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Ending the series with book 6 would also be acceptable.  They could even consider trying to bring back the series in 15 or 25 years and do the rest!  Assuming Strait (Holden), Tipper (Naomi), Chatham (Amos) and Adams (Draper) are still alive and interested in acting work, it sounds doable. 

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9 minutes ago, Denvek said:

I'd guess that Season 6 will be mostly book 6, just with maybe a bit extra to

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resolve the Duarte faction plotline immediately after the Free Navy's defeat

 

Spoiler

But that would leave the whole protomolecule killers plotline completely hanging. That would be a very unsatisfying ending to the show. Even if they base the bones of the season on book 6, they're going to have to bring in things from book 9 as well.

 

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6 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:
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But that would leave the whole protomolecule killers plotline completely hanging. That would be a very unsatisfying ending to the show. Even if they base the bones of the season on book 6, they're going to have to bring in things from book 9 as well.

 

I'm not sure leaving that thread dangling is as terrible as you're making it out to be.  Although it would be a weird anti-climax seeing how the books are (probably) going to resolve that whole plotline. 

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They've also released a clip online which isn't from the book which I think is a big clue on how they're going to handle this.

Spoiler

It looks like the protomolecule storyline is going to be front and centre in Season 5 (and presumably 6) when it basically gets benched in the books.

So my guess is that the Duarte storyline won't be particularly huge (or maybe even present at all). Instead, Seasons 5 and 6 will use the Free Navy storyline to substitute for the Laconians and then continue the protomolecule storyline and resolve it in a similar manner to however Book 9 will do it.

That does maybe hint that the Laconian technology is a bit of a red herring and is not necessary to resolve the threat from the extradimensional aliens in the books.

 

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