U.S. Politics: Hey! Teachers! Leave Them Kids Alone

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

The undecided voters don't believe Trump is a nazi or a white supremacist. If they believed that, they wouldn't be undecided. There are plenty of people who don't like him or his policies, but in order to get them to go affirmatively vote dem they are going to have to like the democratic candidate. A campaign focused on liberal rage and screaming about nazis isn't going anywhere.

Again, 2020. That's then, not now. 

And given previous elections, the undecideds will care about the economy only, so that really doesn't matter.

[Bonnot OG]

3 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

The undecided voters don't believe Trump is a nazi or a white supremacist. If they believed that, they wouldn't be undecided. There are plenty of people who don't like him or his policies, but in order to get them to go affirmatively vote dem they are going to have to like the democratic candidate. A campaign focused on liberal rage and screaming about nazis isn't going anywhere.

And courting willfully ignorant complicit bigots isn't gonna help the country or make the marganlized feel safe and make them want to vote for Dems.

Anyone that is still undecided at this point is as much of a white supremacist as Richard Spencer and David Duke.

[Kalbear]

As to his popularity, Trump is currently at one of his highest approval rates (42.2%) since the inauguration. What is shocking is that his disapproval rate has gone down more than that - it is only at 51.7%, the lowest it's been since April 2017. 

He is also getting significantly closer to Obama's graph at this stage in their presidency, and is more popular than Carter was. 

[Bonnot OG]

2 minutes ago, كالدب said:

As to his popularity, Trump is currently at one of his highest approval rates (42.2%) since the inauguration. What is shocking is that his disapproval rate has gone down more than that - it is only at 51.7%, the lowest it's been since April 2017. 

He is also getting significantly closer to Obama's graph at this stage in their presidency, and is more popular than Carter was. 

Build some concentration camps in the desert and toss some brown kids in it! Youll get higher approval raitings in the land of white supremacists. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, كالدب said:

That might hold true for the eventual candidate, but it doesn't hold true for all Democrats in general. You need the MLK leader, but you also need the attackers who show the stick. You need the ones stirring up shit too. 

That’s what I argued in a previous post.

Quote

Because the lazy adage that they're the same does not matter in the least. 

Of course it does. It allows people to rationalize why they’re voting for Trump. Part of the reason Hillary lost is because people thought she was so awful that it didn’t matter if they voted for Trump.  

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Bonnot OG said:

I don't forgive him. His lack of action there got us a white supremacist in office, and kids in concentration camps and hundreds of repeals that are going to fuck us economically, and enviormentally. 

He was an utter moron for that and I hope cant sleep because of it. 

There is no justice in a de facto white supremacist nation. 

And Dems lose elections because they are self rightoues dipshits for all the wrong reasons, appearences. 

It's one big theatre to them. Be as "moral" as possible! Just in look though. Lets be friends with repulicans! It's just politics! Like there is no impact from political policies!

Ah, that Steve King over there, he may say some really racist and neo nazi bullshit, but he sure is a fine fella to sit down and have a beer with. 

Chuck Schumer logic. Be nice to Steve King, blacks! Don't be rude to him even though he clearly wants a white ethno state!

They view republicans as friends, when they are the enemy. Their political opinions are terrible. You should not be friends with them, you should not be civil to them.




 

Until Obama was elected and the Republicans showed their racist, white supremacists colors (it was always there, mind you), it was possible for Democrats and Republicans to get along and be civil about it. 

I think you need to look into exactly what happened in the runup to the election. Obama wanted to put out a bipartisan statement, and when McConnell said no, he should have gone ahead and done it anyway. But after what Comey had just done with Hillary and the emails, it was imperative that Obama not put himself into the fray because that isn't what presidents do. Now, mind you, they sure didn't do enough to stop it. No one is arguing that. It was Susan Rice who gave the order to stand down, and that was a huge mistake. State governments also downplayed the threat. Hindsight is 20/20.

But let's not forget, no one thought Trump would win.

[Bonnot OG]

Things Dems said in a presser 5 minutes after they toured one of the concentration camps for kids. 

- the state sanctioned white supremacist organization known as ICE were refered to as "public servants."
- called for an "Immigration Czar."
- called America "The greatest country in the world."
- said the historically ignorant phrase "this is not who we are."

What a shit opposition party we have. 

[Bonnot OG]

4 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Until Obama was elected and the Republicans showed their racist, white supremacists colors (it was always there, mind you), it was possible for Democrats and Republicans to get along and be civil about it. 

I think you need to look into exactly what happened in the runup to the election. Obama wanted to put out a bipartisan statement, and when McConnell said no, he should have gone ahead and done it anyway. But after what Comey had just done with Hillary and the emails, it was imperative that Obama not put himself into the fray because that isn't what presidents do. Now, mind you, they sure didn't do enough to stop it. No one is arguing that. It was Susan Rice who gave the order to stand down, and that was a huge mistake. State governments also downplayed the threat. Hindsight is 20/20.

But let's not forget, no one thought Trump would win.

They deserve the criticism, end of story. Some of us knew how fucking bad Trump would be, and the slight chance of him winning should have made sure there was no chance of him winning. 


https://blockclubchicago.org/2018/06/26/officer-caught-on-video-knocking-down-woman-after-pride-parade-being-investigated-police-say/

Cops do not belong at pride events. 

[Ice Queen]

5 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said:

They deserve the criticism, end of story. Some of us knew how fucking bad Trump would be, and the slight chance of him winning should have made sure there was no chance of him winning. 


https://blockclubchicago.org/2018/06/26/officer-caught-on-video-knocking-down-woman-after-pride-parade-being-investigated-police-say/

Cops do not belong at pride events. 

Making sure there was NO chance of him winning? How do you propose they should have done that? The last time I looked, our democracy might be a little bruised and battered, but it's still a democracy, not Putin's Russia. 

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

19 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

The undecided voters don't believe Trump is a nazi or a white supremacist. If they believed that, they wouldn't be undecided. There are plenty of people who don't like him or his policies, but in order to get them to go affirmatively vote dem they are going to have to like the democratic candidate. A campaign focused on liberal rage and screaming about nazis isn't going anywhere.

Uhh, move the goalposts much?

[Kalbear]

13 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Of course it does. It allows people to rationalize why they’re voting for Trump. Part of the reason Hillary lost is because people thought she was so awful that it didn’t matter if they voted for Trump.  

They will always be able to rationalize this, however, provided that they are reasonably comfortable. Democrats can be as civil as they want, and they'll say 'because he stopped North Korea' or 'because he is tough on immigration' or 'because he is doing a great job with the economy' or 'because he makes the libtards upset'. The notion that we shouldn't give them reasons to rationalize their votes ignores that people are going to do that, no matter what, provided they were reasonably happy.

And civility is really down on the list here. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

I look up Trumps approval rating every day (no joke), so I cant not look. This morning as per 538 it was ~ 51.7/42.3 (give or take a point both ways). Also, the generic ballot was 46.6/40.1 or so, however, that seems to be a bit more volatile.

I am hoping these polls are underestimating Democratic support because they may be using incorrect turnout models. On a side note, one of my buddies is running for a State Senate seat in a safe R district, but wouldn't it be great if he won (I plan on supporting him as much as I can).

[Kalbear]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Until Obama was elected and the Republicans showed their racist, white supremacists colors (it was always there, mind you), it was possible for Democrats and Republicans to get along and be civil about it. 

I think you need to look into exactly what happened in the runup to the election. Obama wanted to put out a bipartisan statement, and when McConnell said no, he should have gone ahead and done it anyway. But after what Comey had just done with Hillary and the emails, it was imperative that Obama not put himself into the fray because that isn't what presidents do. Now, mind you, they sure didn't do enough to stop it. No one is arguing that. It was Susan Rice who gave the order to stand down, and that was a huge mistake. State governments also downplayed the threat. Hindsight is 20/20.

But let's not forget, no one thought Trump would win.

From the interview I heard, one of the big strategies was that Obama would deal with this after the election and basically hand it over to Clinton to deal with, because they figured they had time. 

Yay civility

[lokisnow]

41 minutes ago, كالدب said:

Trump won't have to just rile up the base in 2020 to win, but that's what he wants to do in 2018 to get people to vote, and that's what Fox wants in order to keep ratings. In 2020, Trump simply has to point to the relatively successful economy and say 'things aren't that bad', and people won't change dicks in the middle of a screw (as the anti-Nixon chant went in 1972). 

and remember how Obama did utterly nothing during the 2010 and 2014 campaigns to get democrats elected and it was a gigantic fucking colossal failure both times this strategy was attempted (oh sure, he made some endorsements and attended fundraising dinners that were only accessible to rich fuckers), Trump isn't going to repeat that dumb mistake. Trump is out there campaigning with big presidential style rallies accessible to everyone and he's going to do it from now to November and it's going to get a massive amount of his voters out to the polls.

 

[lokisnow]

So in the cake baking Supreme Court case, the ruling hinged on government officials making comments about the Christian religion that hurt the Supreme Court's feelings and therefore the whole case was invalidated because of those comments. In the Muslim ban case, the Supreme Court said that government officials comments about the Muslim religion were irrelevant to the case (read: the Supreme Court's feelings were not hurt) and the decision was validated.

we are so fucked.

why do I even fucking care about this hypocrisy. ugh!

[JGP]

Mnn hmn, that's pretty much exactly what Sotomayer was writing about.

But yeah, and I'm not even American. I get so fucking angry I have to turn it off and do something else for a bit. I get so angry I've had loud [one bordering on physical, even] arguments with fellow Albertans who support Trump.  

[Ice Queen]

19 minutes ago, كالدب said:

From the interview I heard, one of the big strategies was that Obama would deal with this after the election and basically hand it over to Clinton to deal with, because they figured they had time. 

Yay civility

And when that didn't happen, he was just as shellshocked as the rest of us. But in the aftermath, he did what he could to set the stage for Trump to ensure it never happened again and to build on what his (Obama's) administration was doing for the future. 

He should have known better, but I guess even he can engage in wishful thinking. Our elections are more at risk than ever thanks to Trump's inaction. 

 

 

[Ice Queen]

23 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

and remember how Obama did utterly nothing during the 2010 and 2014 campaigns to get democrats elected and it was a gigantic fucking colossal failure both times this strategy was attempted (oh sure, he made some endorsements and attended fundraising dinners that were only accessible to rich fuckers), Trump isn't going to repeat that dumb mistake. Trump is out there campaigning with big presidential style rallies accessible to everyone and he's going to do it from now to November and it's going to get a massive amount of his voters out to the polls.

 

And so far, the majority of the candidates Trump has stumped for HAVE LOST.

[IheartIheartTesla]

22 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

and remember how Obama did utterly nothing during the 2010 and 2014 campaigns to get democrats elected and it was a gigantic fucking colossal failure both times this strategy was attempted (oh sure, he made some endorsements and attended fundraising dinners that were only accessible to rich fuckers),

I'll be honest, this argument annoys me a lot. It wasnt his job to babysit the Democratic party. That why you elect DNC chairs who dole money out appropriately and have fundraisers etc...They should utilize his time most efficiently via scheduling rather than leave it up to him (because, you know, till 2016 being President was a full time job).

[Kalbear]

Just now, IheartIheartTesla said:

I'll be honest, this argument annoys me a lot. It wasnt his job to babysit the Democratic party. That why you elect DNC chairs who dole money out appropriately and have fundraisers etc...They should utilize his time most efficiently via scheduling rather than leave it up to him (because, you know, till 2016 being President was a full time job).

Eh. He fired Dean and brought in DWS, and kept her because it would have been too much a pain in the ass to remove her (per his own words). I don't need him to be doing rallies all the time, but he really fucked over the party with his delegation to crappy people.