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Alex Gu

Weaker frey

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What if holster Tully decided to teach Walder frey a lesson for always being the last to support/take sides in a war by taking away frey vasals house and only leaving Walder frey the twins  after either Robert rebellion or greyjoy rebellion

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That seems pretty illigal (whatever that means) Tywin gets alot of backlash for his treatment of his his vassels, and what Walder did was not nearly as treasonous.

Also Tully will need to call his bannermen to destroy Frey, something other Riverlords might have a problem with (at least for their paranoia and the future of a vassals rights, if not for genuinely liking Walder). At the very least, I don't see Bracken and Blackwood fighting together.

It's a risk with not much incentive and plenty to lose

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34 minutes ago, Alex Gu said:

What if holster Tully decided to teach Walder frey a lesson for always being the last to support/take sides in a war by taking away frey vasals house and only leaving Walder frey the twins  after either Robert rebellion

all the houses who fought against Robert didn't get punished, why would the neutral houses be punished? 

one of the better excuses for replacing the Targaryens was Aerys abusing his power, this would be no different. Plus neither Robert or Arryn would want to continue the war, punishing the Freys and them rejecting the punishment, who are at full force, could kickstart another war with the all the rebel lords deciding that they too don't recognize the crown's authority. 

34 minutes ago, Alex Gu said:

 

or greyjoy rebellion

why after the greyjoy rebellion?

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The easiest way to weaken House Frey, IMHO, is to go to Braavos, whisper a name to Him of Many Faces (ie. Lord Walder Frey), and wait for all hell to break loose. Then intervene, punishing and dispossessing the entire house for violating the King's Peace.

At least, that's how I would do it.

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29 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Hoster Tully can't prove Walder was late on purpose.  

Didn't Ned cross the Bridge to reach Stoney Sept?

It's fairly easy to determine Walder's allegiance in RR. If he allowed Ned, he is probably with rebels, if he didn't he is certainly against them.

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5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Didn't Ned cross the Bridge to reach Stoney Sept?

It's fairly easy to determine Walder's allegiance in RR. If he allowed Ned, he is probably with rebels, if he didn't he is certainly against them.

We have no idea if he crossed the Twins or not. It wouldn't have been strictly necessary as he was marching down the Kingsroad and stoney sept is well south of the Ruby Ford. 

Man I really want some back history on Robert's Rebellion

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24 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

We have no idea if he crossed the Twins or not. It wouldn't have been strictly necessary as he was marching down the Kingsroad and stoney sept is well south of the Ruby Ford. 

Man I really want some back history on Robert's Rebellion

He lets Ned  cross the twins but he keep back his army/levies to last minute and them support the side that winning like lannisters

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6 minutes ago, Alex Gu said:

He lets Ned  cross the twins but he keep back his army/levies to last minute and them support the side that winning like lannisters

We have literally no idea if Ned crossed the Twins or not during RR.

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5 hours ago, Alex Gu said:

What if holster Tully decided to teach Walder frey a lesson for always being the last to support/take sides in a war by taking away frey vasals house and only leaving Walder frey the twins  after either Robert rebellion or greyjoy rebellion

Then he would need to punish  Houses that sided with Targs harsher than Walder, who just stayed neutral.

About Greyjoy rebellion.

We don't know what Walder had done during it, but i don't see reason for him to sit on fence, and i believe that one of his sons (Geremy) died during it. 

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Some more backstory on RR would be very helpful in better understanding some of the dynamics between houses and people therein at the start of the saga.

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There seems to be a general underestimation of the power vested in Lords Paramount. In practice they pretty much have the freedom to do as they please within their own domains. As evidence, just look at what Tywin Lannister was able to do to the Reynes and Tarbecks, without any broader repurcussions. In fact, it just strengthened his reputation, if anything.

Hoster Tully could have acted to reduce the Frey power in a myriad of ways if he so chose. If he felt it was worth his while doing so.

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50 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

There seems to be a general underestimation of the power vested in Lords Paramount. In practice they pretty much have the freedom to do as they please within their own domains. As evidence, just look at what Tywin Lannister was able to do to the Reynes and Tarbecks, without any broader repurcussions. In fact, it just strengthened his reputation, if anything.

I agree, LPs are kings in all but name for most things and IT is a high king or emperor.

But Tywin's case was also a special one, West was in turmoil for over a decade and it was only going worse with Reyne-Tarbeck. If it brings order back and those bannermen have acted dishonorably, then all the more reason to give him some more freedom.

6 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Then he would need to punish  Houses that sided with Targs harsher than Walder, who just stayed neutral.

And they did. Darrys lost lands and lordship. They are landed knights now.

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5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

House Frey ends up as a bannerman to either the Lannisters or Arryns.

Can't see how that works geographically...

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4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I agree, LPs are kings in all but name for most things and IT is a high king or emperor.

But Tywin's case was also a special one, West was in turmoil for over a decade and it was only going worse with Reyne-Tarbeck. If it brings order back and those bannermen have acted dishonorably, then all the more reason to give him some more freedom.

And they did. Darrys lost lands and lordship. They are landed knights now.

Why then BWB said Lord Darry?

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Another thing is that Lannisters are much richer and stronger than Tullies. For instance as a heir Tywin could call at arms a task force of 500 knights without help from bannermen of Lannisters and he could wipe out 2 rebelling houses with minimal support from junior houses.

I am almost certain that Edmure could not do those things. Or Tullies had to be much more careful what they do and how they deal with own bannermen than Lannisters. In fact I suspect that even Kevan could outgun all forces available to lord of Riverrun without  support from bannermen.

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