“Wed her, bed her, put a child in her”... what are you thinking, Tywin?

[Tianzi]

15 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Ultimately, my point is clear; Sansa is going to be seen in this world as the apropiate age to procreate. She's able to get pregnant. I do not see any nobleman adult or teenager holding off on 12 year child bride when she is already capable physically at getting pregnant. 

Well, Tyrion.

And If I'm not mistaken, we don't see any other decent nobleman figure married to a girl this age.

Yes, 12 is age when getting married off doesn't raise to many eyebrows. However...

18 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Daenarys, Sansa, and Jeyne Poole whose being passed off as Arya-out of the many outrages to the Bolton marriage her stated age isn't really brought up as a complaint.  Lyanna was expected to marry Robert shortly. 

Powerful families can wait a couple years for their daughters till a better offer is made but it's not really illegal or improper for them to do so. 

...the division seems to be clear. Powerful families, when decision-making isn't done by the Boltons, Viserys or Tywin Lannister (who also married off a baby), tend to do exactly that - wait. Robert and Ned also intended to wait with Sansa and Joff marriage. Being married off at early teens or even before that clearly isn't seen as good for the involved.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

Well, Tyrion.

And If I'm not mistaken, we don't see any other decent nobleman figure married to a girl this age.

Yes, 12 is age when getting married off doesn't raise to many eyebrows. However...

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Meant to say typical nobleman; Tyrion is the extreme exception; and he's not decent; he's a rapist and murderer after all. 

Willias would have wed Sansa.

Again, we don't see anyone cite the girl's age as why the marriage is unacceptable or wrong; besides Tyrion. 

 

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

eems to be clear. Powerful families, when decision-making isn't done by the Boltons, Viserys or Tywin Lannister (who also married off a baby), tend to do exactly that - wait. Robert and Ned also intended to wait with Sansa and Joff marriage. Being married off at early teens or even before that clearly isn't seen as good for the involved.

Powerful families often wait because they're fishing for the best match possible-the indivuals who are involved happiness matters very little in the grand scheme of things if both are minors.

And you're forgeting the Tyrells who sought for Sansa's hand.

Tywin did not marry off a baby

Joffery was 12.  

You say an adult nobleman would typically wait for his child-bride to be ready to procreate-12 is an age to which a girl can give birth-how is she not going to be seen as ready to impregnate to the typical nobleman? 

[Angel Eyes]

2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Meant to say typical nobleman; Tyrion is the extreme exception; and he's not decent; he's a rapist and murderer after all. 

Willias would have wed Sansa.

Again, we don't see anyone cite the girl's age as why the marriage is unacceptable or wrong; besides Tyrion. 

 

Powerful families often wait because they're fishing for the best match possible-the indivuals who are involved happiness matters very little in the grand scheme of things if both are minors.

And you're forgeting the Tyrells who sought for Sansa's hand.

Tywin did not marry off a baby

Joffery was 11. He's a few years before he could properly be able to impregnate a female. 

You say an adult nobleman would typically wait for his child-bride to be ready to procreate-12 is an age to which a girl can give birth-how is she not going to be seen as ready to impregnate to the typical nobleman? 

He did marry a baby off when he had his nephew Tyrek (Tygett’s son) marry Ermesande Hayford. 

 

[Tianzi]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Tywin did not marry off a baby

...Lady Ermesande? (well, technically speaking probably someone else 'married her off', but the marriage was forced by Tywin).

 

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

You say an adult nobleman would typically wait for his child-bride to be ready to procreate-12 is an age to which a girl can give birth-how is she not going to be seen as ready to impregnate to the typical nobleman? 

I did not say he typically would, I said it would be an option. Also, that might be an age when (some) girls are able to get pregnant, but their bodies aren't typically well developed to give birth. Well, not a common knowledge in this society, but then again, some noblemen could listen to their maesters.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Powerful families often wait because they're fishing for the best match possible-the indivuals who are involved happiness matters very little in the grand scheme of things if both are minors.

Ned surely wanted to wait because of his children happiness, Tywin surely waited with Cersei because he was fishing for the best match possible. The 'typical' nobles probably fall in somewhere in-between. Even Hoster Tully gives Lysa to an old dude because she's defiled and not because he only thinks about an alliance.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Meant to say typical nobleman; Tyrion is the extreme exception; and he's not decent; he's a rapist and murderer after all. 

Yep, he is a rapist and a murderer. But he does his best to act decent as Sansa's husband.

 

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Willias would have wed Sansa.

Again, we don't see anyone cite the girl's age as why the marriage is unacceptable or wrong; besides Tyrion. 

It was a wartime and everyone was after Winterfell. I think Sansa would've been treated similarly if she was 9 or 10 yo in terms of getting married off.

[Bernie Mac]

45 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

...Lady Ermesande? (well, technically speaking probably someone else 'married her off', but the marriage was forced by Tywin).

they are not actually married, but betrothed to each other. 

45 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Ned surely wanted to wait because of his children happiness, Tywin surely waited with Cersei because he was fishing for the best match possible.

No, look at his conversation with Arya about her future prospects, or even with Sansa when he tells her that the Joffrey marriage is off despite the fact that she claims to love him. They were to be married with the best possible match much like Cersei was. 

I'm not sure why this would be shocking, Ned had an arranged marriage and it was a happy one. The majority of people in their society would have similar experiences in marriage (and in real life as well, I have a fair few friends from university who's culture saw them have arranged marriages and none of them are unhappy). 

As an outsider looking in it appears weird, but for the people who live in these societies they mostly accept it and make the best of it, the horror stories we hear about are not the norm (though imo a valid reason they should stop). 

45 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

The 'typical' nobles probably fall in somewhere in-between. Even Hoster Tully gives Lysa to an old dude because she's defiled and not because he only thinks about an alliance.

Cat had never met Ned and was the same age as Sansa when she was betrothed to Brandon. Hoster did not care about the husband's character he cared about their status, as was the norm. 

In actual fact Hoster, after making Lysa have an abortion, was then making her marry an old man who had no children and possibly could not. Women in their world were made to think their most important role in life was creating more nobles, which makes Lysa's marriage extra cruel. 

 

[Tianzi]

22 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

they are not actually married, but betrothed to each other.  

22 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, look at his conversation with Arya about her future prospects, or even with Sansa when he tells her that the Joffrey marriage is off despite the fact that she claims to love him.

I'm looking at his conversation with Sansa. He wanted her out of an engagement with someone who proved to be a little shit and out of an environment that would've been dangerous. And he wanted someone 'brave and gentle' for her.

Arranged marriage, yes, of course, but they cared (at least until the war came and there was less room for compromises), as you put it, for the groom's character.

 

26 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Cat had never met Ned and was the same age as Sansa when she was betrothed to Brandon. Hoster did not care about the husband's character he cared about their status, as was the norm. 

I don't see anything pointing out at not caring about the character. Both Brandon and especially Ned were rather decent.

 

30 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

In actual fact Hoster, after making Lysa have an abortion, was then making her marry an old man who had no children and possibly could not. Women in their world were made to think their most important role in life was creating more nobles, which makes Lysa's marriage extra cruel. 

Hoster was a prick and indeed cruel to Lysa, but as I said he made her go for an old man when he believed it was only as good as she could do. Had she been not defiled, he would find a better match for her.

On that note, let's ponder about how the unhappiness in the marriage in Lysa and Arryn's marriage turned out. And how Robert and Cersei's did. And what Olenna Tyrell did when she found out about Joffrey's character. Those are the extremes, but generally some peace and stability in marriages and the Houses' interests came together.

[kissdbyfire]

What was Tywin "Major Douche A-Hole" Lannister thinking? Of himself and house Lannister, the only two things he cares about since Joanna died. 

[Bernie Mac]

 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

I'm looking at his conversation with Sansa. He wanted her out of an engagement with someone who proved to be a little shit

He was a little shit when he agreed to the marriage, the only thing that had changed was that Ned suspected that he was a bastard, it had nothing to do with his personality, 

When Ned agreed to the marriage he did not consult Sansa about it and when he broke the marriage off, despite Sansa making her love for Joffrey clear, he ignored her. Her feelings did not come into it, you are kidding yourself if you think they did.

 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

and out of an environment that would've been dangerous. And he wanted someone 'brave and gentle' for her.

might want to read that quote again

"Sweet one," her father said gently, "listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. 

Clearly his rank is the most important matter and it is the same for Arya. 

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there.

 

You are confusing Ned's thoughts on arranged marriage with your own, he, happily married to the woman he first met on his wedding day, is not going to have the same issues with the idea of arranged marriage as the reader is. 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Arranged marriage, yes, of course, but they cared (at least until the war came and there was less room for compromises), as you put it, for the groom's character.

Yes, I imagine most did even Tywin. There was nothing wrong with the teenage Robert, every father in Westeros would have been happy for him to marry their daughter, Ned certainly had no issue with him marrying his sister. 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

I don't see anything pointing out at not caring about the character. Both Brandon and especially Ned were rather decent.

Yup, I agree, though we don't even know if Hoster had even met Ned before he agreed the marriage.  but as Hoster's own daughter points out it was the alliance that was more important than their character. 

"Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully."

Small wonder her sister's marriage had been so loveless.

 

Few nobles are seen to be awful people. 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

 

Hoster was a prick and indeed cruel to Lysa, but as I said he made her go for an old man when he believed it was only as good as she could do.

No, it was only as good as he could do. A marriage to a man in his 70's with no children was going to be a poor marriage. He could have easily found her a younger match, he choose the most prestigious one. Which is pretty much the norm in their society. 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Had she been not defiled, he would find a better match for her.

He could have done so anyway. 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

On that note, let's ponder about how the unhappiness in the marriage in Lysa and Arryn's marriage turned out.

Lysa's second marriage was for love, did that turn out any better for Lysa? 

32 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

 

And how Robert and Cersei's did.

Sure, but lets look at how unhappy the marriage between Doran and his wife was,  who married out of love. 

 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

Hoster was a prick and indeed cruel to Lysa, but as I said he made her go for an old man when he believed it was only as good as she could do. Had she been not defiled, he would find a better match for her.

 

That old man was the warden of the east; and despite his age by all accounts looked strong and healthy prior to his poisoning and has a track record of getting one woman pregnant-so not sterile.  Hes quite a catch all things considered. Truth be told who exactly would be better than Jon Arryn?  The lack of the knowledge of her pregnancy being known is what would help keep Lysha from being able to snag him.

Before Jaimie joined the KG, Tywin and Hoster seriously discussed having Lysha bethrothed to Jaimie; clearly Hoster did not see his options as very limited due to a secret near no one knew about.

3 hours ago, Tianzi said:

I did not say he typically would, I said it would be an option. Also, that might be an age when (some) girls are able to get pregnant, but their bodies aren't typically well developed to give birth. Well, not a common knowledge in this society, but then again, some noblemen could listen to their maesters.

You said an adult man would whore out until his child-wife is ready to procreate-what exactly in your mind going to be seen as "ready" besides the female being able to get pregnant? 12, 13 is there's not going to be much divergence-most would fall in between that age range. We know that's going to be the common time the menstruation cycle begins for noblewoman because Sansa says Septa Mordane told Sansa to expect her blood to come at 12 or 13; to which it does in the second book. Where are you getting that Maestores truly understand the health risks of giving birth so early? 

 

3 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Ned surely wanted to wait because of his children happiness, Tywin surely waited with Cersei because he was fishing for the best match possible. The 'typical' nobles probably fall in somewhere in-between. Even Hoster Tully gives Lysa to an old dude because she's defiled and not because he only thinks about an alliance.

Ned wanted to wait likely for the same reasons Tywin did-he wanted the best match he possibly get.

Eddard Stark is a lord after all, not a modern cool rich dad, whose going to be ok if his first son or daughter marries someone whose main quality is making them happy.

Arya would marry a prince or lord at the behest of her patriarch eventually regardless of if she wishes to do something diffrent; Robb too would marry for the benifit of House Stark. 

Their indivual happiness matters very little; its their duty in the end.

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

I'm looking at his conversation with Sansa. He wanted her out of an engagement with someone who proved to be a little shit and out of an environment that would've been dangerous. And he wanted someone 'brave and gentle' for her.

At the point Ned broke off the arrangement Joffery at best bullied a butcher's boy as far as Ned's knows. The prime motivators for ending the bethrodal is the fear of Joffery being a bastard born of inchest and treason. He didn't even break it off when Robert himself express worry about Joffery.

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

That old man was the warden of the east; and despite his age by all accounts looked strong and healthy prior to his poisoning and has a track record of getting one woman pregnant-so not sterile.  Hes quite a catch all things considered. Truth be told who exactly would be better than Jon Arryn?  The lack of the knowledge of her pregnancy being known is what would help keep Lysha from being able to snag him.

Baby was born dead, so not so healthy.

[Varysblackfyre321]

35 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Baby was born dead, so not so healthy.

How does that reflect poorly on Arryn? Stillborns aren't going to so uncomm in this world. Even among people of Arryn's rank. Hell Queen Rhallea  suffered multiple still-borns and miscarriages miscarages after Rheagar came along.  Most of the causes are going to rest entirely on the body of the female not the adequacy of the male who impreganted the female, sperm vitality; https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/stillbirth/topicinfo/causes

 

[Angel Eyes]

17 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

How does that reflect poorly on Arryn? Stillborns aren't going to so uncomm in this world. Even among people of Arryn's rank. Hell Queen Rhallea  suffered multiple still-borns and miscarriages miscarages after Rheagar came along.  Most of the causes are going to rest entirely on the body of the female not the adequacy of the male who impreganted the female, sperm vitality; https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/stillbirth/topicinfo/causes

 

Hoster shouldn’t have made Lysa drink the moon tea then. It nearly killed her and damaged her reproductive organs to the point she couldn’t carry a viable offspring to term.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Tywin did marry off Tyrek Lannister to the babe Lady Ermesande Hayford.  It's right here in the Wiki with references. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tyrek_Lannister

As far as age and marriage, I'd say the war played into a lot of norms about age being cast aside if possible, especially when it came to Tywin. 

[Springwatch]

8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Hoster shouldn’t have made Lysa drink the moon tea then. It nearly killed her and damaged her reproductive organs to the point she couldn’t carry a viable offspring to term.

Very unlikely. Even when Cat found out about the moon tea, she had no recollection of Lysa being dangerously ill (or even looking pregnant). Yet the girls were close enough to know when each was having their period.

Equally, Lysa was the most fertile of Jon Arryn's wives, bearing him a living son.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:26 PM, Bernie Mac said:

they are not actually married, but betrothed to each other. 

Is tyrion an unreliable narrator now?

Tyrek was the son of his late Uncle Tygett, a boy of thirteen. He had vanished in the riot, not long after wedding the Lady Ermesande, a suckling babe who happened to be the last surviving heir of House Hayford. And likely the first bride in the history of the Seven Kingdoms to be widowed before she was weaned

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, Angel Eyes said:

And if the baby was a girl or a dwarf?

After Robb , Bran and Rickon , Sansa is the heir of Winterfell . A child  ,any child born from Sansa has rights to the north over a rebel lord . Besides this is Tywin , the gods own him a healthy male child .

[Bernie Mac]

9 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Is tyrion an unreliable narrator now?

 

No, but it contradicts what we have been told about marriage in Westeros, that it needs to be consummate to be recognized and that both parties have to speak their vows (like Sansa had to do). 

It seems more of a long betrothal than an actual official marriage. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

On July 7, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Hoster shouldn’t have made Lysa drink the moon tea then. It nearly killed her and damaged her reproductive organs to the point she couldn’t carry a viable offspring to term.

Did anyone argue Hoster should have made Lysha drink moon tea? Not really. I don't think it's wise to labele that as the sole reason for why Lysha has suffered stillborns and miscarages but again such things happening to a woman aren't going to be uncommon in this world. 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, but it contradicts what we have been told about marriage in Westeros, that it needs to be consummate to be recognized and that both parties have to speak their vows (like Sansa had to do). 

It seems more of a long betrothal than an actual official marriage. 

That's definitely a fair point. From that view it seems more like the throne wants the incomes for the time being aka similar to royal wards to be married of (again). Didn't think of that but hell that's how William Marshal really broke through

[Walda]

On 7/7/2018 at 12:03 PM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

How does that reflect poorly on Arryn? Stillborns aren't going to so uncomm in this world. Even among people of Arryn's rank. Hell Queen Rhallea  suffered multiple still-borns and miscarriages miscarages after Rheagar came along.  Most of the causes are going to rest entirely on the body of the female not the adequacy of the male who impreganted the female, sperm vitality; https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/stillbirth/topicinfo/causes

 

I'm wondering if there was any gonorrhoea in Westeros. Gonorrhoea existed in medieval Europe. They didn't name it such but the register of stews (brothels) in Bankside, Southwark, kept by the Bishop of Winchester, shows a regulation added a short time after 1161 that "no stew-holder to keep a woman that hath perilous infirmity of burning" and certain types of leprosy with symptoms similar to gonorrhoea ceased to exist when it was described medically in the 1600's (and given a method of treatment - mercury injected into the tip of the penis to plug the drip). Even without a name and a 'cure' it was known to be spread through brothels, to be a disease that could be passed on to wives, an it was at least suspected of causing infertility, and early death in both sexes. It was known to cause deformation of the genitals, still births, children blind from birth, deformed children, and children destined to be sickly and die early. It was also sometimes associated with (male) homosexuality, and (less understandably) masturbation.

Part of the medieval churches strictures on chastity in and out of marriage were for the sake of preserving a man's health and ensuring his wife's fertility (when he finally got married). I can't think of a medieval example, but one reason parents had for objecting to a marriage between their young daughter and an old man in the renaissance and later (right up to the mid-1940's when penicillin was for a little time a silver bullet cure) was the fear that a husband known to have venereal disease would infect his young wife so she would not be able to secure her jointure with a male child, but would also have difficulty marrying anyone after he died and his property went to his heirs. 

Of course when the old man was someone like Henry VIII, there were women who would marry him anyway. (Thinking on it, there were a lot of women that were put off by Henry VIII, but his never-healing lesion was hardly a consideration at the time. In modern times there is speculation that it was a symptom of secondary syphilis, and might have been responsible for Katherine's six (four sons) and Anne's three (two sons) pregnancies that ended in still-birth, miscarriage, or a child that died early in its first year. Also Henry's increasingly unreasonable behaviour.)

The Lord of the Eyrie is a magnificent catch for Hoster, but because of the rank, wealth, and title that will go to Lysa's son. When it comes to Jon supplying said son, I think it is very likely that Jon and Hoster both might have some concerns. Hoster already knows - his first two sons were stillborn, he was still trying for a son anything from four to nine years after Catelyn was born for Edmure, and his wife died attempting to give birth to a second son. But, while it might not be acknowledged, both Hoster and Jon would know for themselves that the libido of an older man is not what it was at twenty, and they are prone to impotence, even when in robust good health, which is also harder to maintain as one gets older. We are given hints that this might be an issue for Jon, with his dutiful rather than passionate marital habits, and his rotten cheese breath.  More than this, there are psychological barriers: the signs are there that he didn't much like Lysa, and she was in love with Petyr Baelish. The pressure to produce an heir that induced him to marry is not necessarily going to translate to a stud performance, either.  Although it interests me that he was studying the breeding of greyhounds without actually keeping any, at the time he died. It seems that breeding has grown into an obsession with him - an unproductive obsession.

While men could and did blame women for their own problems, if Jon Arryn had trouble finishing,  he and Lysa both would know this. He would also be aware if her pregnancies were occurring at times when he was not particularly able to fulfil his duty. We don't know how much SweetRobin resembles him, and Lysa wouldn't say anything to draw her son's claim into question while she was regent of the Eyrie, but Jon Arryn would know if he had reason to suspect his putative son was a bastard. He might have known and preferred to keep trying for one of his own (as SweetRobin was a sign she could bear him a son, and SweetRobin was better than no son at all, until he had one of his own blood).

We know Eddard considered it remarkable that Jon and Stannis would visit a brothel together. While Stannis was unambiguously against brothels in principle, Jon is a father figure to Eddard. I'm wondering if that might interfere with Eddard being able to imagine Jon going to brothels, or if Jon really did shun them.  Or if he had not shunned them when he was younger, and contracted an STD that led to his fertility problems, and to his shunning brothels later, and also to his being aware before his third marriage that his ability to produce an heir had been reduced by a disease his legal wife would be obliged to share with him. 

It seems that the pox in ASoIaF was a disease that was known to be sexually transmitted and to interfere with fertility and to result in sickly and deformed children if there were any at all. Although this knowledge seems to grow with each book.

It isn't clear in Game of Thrones. The word 'pox' is used three times in the book.  Twice as a curse, and possibly intended that way the third time as well (one of the rumoured causes of King Robert's death that Arya hears). But there don't seem to be any sexual or shameful connotations. If one substituted it with 'disease' it would work as well. 

That changes in Clash, when Jeor Mormont explained the succession crisis that put Aegon IV on the throne, noting that Daeron:

Quote

died too, leaving only a feeble-witted daughter as heir. Some pox he caught from a whore, I believe.

(ACoK, Ch.06 Jon I)

This is the first time we are told that poxes are sexually transmitted, and could possibly lead to feeble-witted offspring. Also that they sometimes kill.

Shortly after, Bran introduces us to Poxy Tym, so we know it doesn't always kill. In Clash Arya notes that the pox can leave visible marks on a person's face:

Quote

A young mother with a pox-scarred face

(ACoK,Ch.26 Arya VI) This woman has a daughter, so the pox might not have affected her fertility. There is no mention of the girl being deformed or sickly, although she is barely mentioned at all. And her mother might have contracted the pox after she was born.

We have already learnt that Ser Ilyn Payne, Ser Jared Frey, and the commander of Stone at the Eyrie had pock-marked faces, but a pock is not a pox - cratered skin could be caused by acne or old burns from a spray of oil, or anything that deforms the skin, not exclusively disease. Ser Ilyn doesn't seem to have any children, though.

In Storm of Swords, there is no doubt in the case of Sharna's husband's pock-marked face:

Quote

He was a head shorter than the woman, with a lumpy face and loose yellowish skin that still showed the marks of some pox.

(ACoK, Ch.13 Arya II)

He seems in fact to still be convalescing from the disease, still showing jaundice and signs of recent rapid weightloss. He and Sharna have only an orphan boy, in spite of Sharna's midwifery experience. There are hints thrown around that Sharna is, might, or has, got off with Lem, as well. (There is a yellow theme going on here - her husband's jaundice, Lem's cloak, Dornish duck with lemons.)

It is possible the author is telling the reader that Sharna sleeps with whom she pleases, not worried about pregnancy affecting her personally, because she knows she can't have children. Nobody in the text says as much, but from the way husband berates Tom Sevenstreams it appears that neither she nor Fern nor any of the girls around Lambswold have ever heard of moon tea.

Most of the other references to pox in Storm are insults, applied to children, and peasants. Tyrion hypothesises Bran's catspaw is a 'poxy lackwit', which is consistent with the idea that the pox can be congenital and can affect the intelligence of a child born with it. But might just be venting his own feelings and not really implying any knowledge about the true nature of the pox.

Merrett isn't too bright, but he knows pox is sexually transmitted

Quote

Merrett rubbed the bridge of his nose. He really had no right to think so ill of Petyr. I did the same myself when I was his age. In his case all it got him was a pox, but still, he shouldn’t condemn. Whores did have charms, especially if you had a face like Petyr’s. The poor lad had a wife, to be sure, but she was half the problem. Not only was she twice his age, but she was bedding his brother Walder too, if the talk was true.

(ASoS, Epilogue)

Merrett successfully fathered four children in spite of that - although there is a four year gap between his youngest girl and his son and (briefly) heir. None of his children seem half-witted though, and Merrett's own lack of intelligence can't really be blamed on the pox, or the blow to the head he sustained as a squire. He was like that before both of them.

I thought perhaps he was a bit simple because Walder Frey had a pox, but I suspect that one of the reasons Walder's brides are so young is that he is determined not to risk his fertility (and life) to a pox, as much as because he would take it as an affront to himself that another man had been there first. Still, Lord Walder does a great job of producing heirs when his legs have become too frail to walk on (which hints that his circulation can't be that great).

Feast  is the book where pox is most explicitly associated with promiscuity, low fertility, and disabled children. Or perhaps poxes - it is not always clear that pox is a single disease like greyscale or redspots. It is possible that any disease that spots the skin, redspots excepted, is regarded as a pox. It seems to be singular more often than not. Whether or not, there is no doubt in Feast that everyone knows it is sexually transmitted, infectious, always shameful, occasional fatal, and a scourge that blinds and deforms offspring and marks survivors, known in-universe to cause infertility.

In fact, it is a crime to spread it, in Duskendale:

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a haggard grey-faced whore, accused of giving the pox to four of Tarly’s soldiers. “Wash out her private parts with lye and throw her in a dungeon,” Tarly commanded.

(AFfC, Ch.14 Brienne III)

There is no doubting the dynastic consequences in Feast

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“I have no luck with wives,” Victarion told him. His first wife died in childbed, giving him a stillborn daughter. His second had been stricken by a pox. And his third …

(AFfC, Ch.18 The Iron Captain)

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“I pray he proves a worthy knight.”
Lady Myranda snorted. “I pray he gets the pox. He has a bastard daughter by some common girl, you know. My lord father had hoped to marry me to Harry, but Lady Waynwood would not hear of it. I do not know whether it was me she found unsuitable, or just my dowry.”

(AFfC, Ch.41 Alayne II)

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Boy Jasper, inconsiderate of the heroic efforts that had gone into begetting him, got himself kicked in the head by a horse when he was three years old. A pox took two of his sisters soon after, leaving six. ... “Which brings us back to the five remaining daughters of Elys and Alys. The eldest had been left terribly scarred by the same pox that killed her sisters, so she became a septa.

(AFfC, Ch.41 Alayne II)

So yeah, unthinkable as it is for Eddard, I'm wondering if Jon Arryn knew he was going to have difficulty conceiving because of a pox, and knew before he married Lysa. Hence his apparently endless patience and dutiful attempts to conceive a spare after SweetRobin, in spite of her repeated miscarriages and stillbirths.

 If Lysa is to be believed, their loathing was mutual from the start of their marriage

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You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father’s swords, to aid his darling boys. I should have refused him, but he was such an old man, how long could he live? Half his teeth were gone, and his breath smelled like bad cheese. I cannot abide a man with foul breath.

(ASoS, Ch.68 Sansa VI)

Breath like bad cheese is not mentioned as a pox-related symptom anywhere, but it is a symptom of chronic disease, showing that Jon Arryn was never really in the excellent health Eddard Stark was convinced he was in until he was poisoned.

A pox might explain why Jon Arryn doing his duty yielded such poor results, and his apparent awareness of the issue before he married Lysa (hence the value he placed on her proven fertility, combined with her youth). She has fallen pregnant six times, and has SweetRobin, so we know she isn't completely infertile.  And we know Jon Arryn kept trying for a son in spite of his dislike for his wife, after SweetRobin was born. 

Jon Arryn seems to have loved Eddard and Robert, but to have had a tin ear for women. He advised and assisted both the men he loved into cold, politically arranged marriages. It was only a strong shared sense of duty that prevented Eddard's marriage from being an unmitigated disaster when it came to producing legitimate offspring. 

Jon seems blind to the harm that resulted from obliging Robert to marry without love, and while he wasn't to know that Cersei and Jaime were a thing, he might have been aware that Robert was grieving Lyanna, and that Robert was not good husband material in any circumstance.  On the other hand, it is unlikely he didn't know  Lysa and Petyr had a thing, yet he was all for raising Petyr up and including him in his King's Landing household. It makes me wonder if he had spent his whole life denying his sexual orientation, like Stannis, who has also been plagued with stillbirths and miscarriages and a harridan wife he has done his duty to.

TL:DR Even if the world blames the women for fertility problems, there is evidence in the text that Jon and Hoster are aware that Lysa's fertility is not the real problem. There is evidence in the text that Jon Arryn had fertility problems long before he married Lysa. Lysa gives an account of his health being less than excellent, and his marital behaviour is consistent with a man still trying to breed a son and to separate SweetRobin from his mother at an early opportunity.