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Match Day 14: Mexico v Sweden; Germany v South Korea; Switzerland v Croatia; Serbia v Brazil


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16 hours ago, MisterLewandowski said:

So, which is the biggest disappointment/embarrassment: The United States missing out on the World Cup entirely, or Germany finishing last in its group? 

It's pretty safe to say that nobody outside of US cares if US makes it to the World Cup or not.

14 hours ago, Selibration Srbija! said:

Damn Serbia, you ought to have done better.

The sad thing is that this is about it. There's not much more that can be expected from a team managed by a guy who's never managed a single team before World Cup.

Sure, Mitrovic could've scored that header or something like that, but I doubt it would make that much of a difference.

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1 hour ago, baxusalah said:

It's pretty safe to say that nobody outside of US cares if US makes it to the World Cup or not.

I think FIFA care quite a lot. That’s probably a fairly significant part of why concacaf have enough qualifying spots that they really shouldn’t ever miss out.

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Germany missing out to a good Mexican side and a Swedish team built around the Euro u21 winning side of a few years back is much less surprising than the US not making it. Especially when the fates of the other recent winners are taken into account. But many more people care about Germany winning or losing than they do about the US, and the World Cup itself gets much more attention than the qualifiers (most casual fans in Europe probably didn't notice America was missing till the tournament started) so Germany's failure has to be seen as the more embarrassing.

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12 minutes ago, Eusebio da Silva ljkeane said:

I think FIFA care quite a lot. That’s probably a fairly significant part of why concacaf have enough qualifying spots that they really shouldn’t ever miss out.

I was talking about fans, obviously. ;) 

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1 hour ago, I am Zlatan said:

Germany missing out to a good Mexican side and a Swedish team built around the Euro u21 winning side of a few years back is much less surprising than the US not making it. Especially when the fates of the other recent winners are taken into account. But many more people care about Germany winning or losing than they do about the US, and the World Cup itself gets much more attention than the qualifiers (most casual fans in Europe probably didn't notice America was missing till the tournament started) so Germany's failure has to be seen as the more embarrassing.

The Sweden side is talented, however given the players at Löw's disposal, the German side should've been winning their group as there is way more talent there. They didn't get their horsepower on the track however. As Neuer put it, they didn't deserve to go through, and even if they had managed to do that, they would've crashed out in the next round, or the qf at the latest.

That German team finished deaed last in a group with South Korea, and only managed to play 45 good minutes throughout the entire tournament. I am just curious on who will retire from international football within the next few days. Khedira is a good candidate given his age, Kroos said he is cinsidering it. Löw will announce in the next few days, whether he will stay on.

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Sweden did really well and deserve more praise.  They bounced back from a gut punch defeat and trounced Mexico, who I would have counted among the stronger performers until Sweden handled them so convincingly.  And there was plenty at stake in that game: Mexico’s loss means they face Brazil next.  It wasn’t like Croatia resting most of their team. 

Next Sweden and Switzerland face each other, which is a decent reward for both showing so well in the group stages.  Both will view that as winnable and it guarantees a relatively small side in the quarter finals. 

Mexico vs Brazil will be good too as El Tri try to recapture their solid defense and lightning counter-attacks against Germany.  They could possibly defeat both pre-tournament favorites.  Mexico became beloved of neutrals in the past two weeks but Germany were abysmal and South Korea poor.  The first solid team they met was like running into a brick wall.  So let’s see if they can do it against a quality team. 

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And Sweden also played two rather average games in this tournament. They were rather mediocre at best against South Korea (that was objectively a rather bleak game), and their performance against an abysmal German side was hardly any better. Yes, they were good against Mexico. But let's not talk up Sweden more than their games merit.

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Yes, yesterday’s game was by far the best play that Sweden has performed during either qualifiers or World Cup. There are virtually no star players in the team but the defence is solid and yesterday the counter attacks also finally found the goal. I think they can beat just about any team but can also lose against any team. Difficult to estimate, but I’d go as far as saying they’re favourites against Switzerland. 

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The touts have Switzerland slightly favored, and I think all considered that is fair enough. Other than yesterday's game, Sweden has had a real problem getting it into the goal, while Switzerland has managed to be more consistent in its attacks.

It should be a good, fairly balanced game, all considered.

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3 hours ago, Notone said:

I am just curious on who will retire from international football within the next few days. Khedira is a good candidate given his age, Kroos said he is cinsidering it. Löw will announce in the next few days, whether he will stay on.

Khedira does not deserve to be there on merit anymore. Even if he does not retire, when Can ousts him from the Juve midfield next season it will be obvious which one should be in the setup.

Löw has to go surely? Most of the best German coaches that could replace him are at the start of their careers, tied down at a club and/or wedded to a specific system that would be hard to implement at international level though. Would Heynckes take the job given it is less intensive than managing a club?

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9 hours ago, Soylent Dropbear said:

Can isn't very good though.

He has some good games, sure, but he also has games where he looks like he's playing in slow-motion. Germany must have better than him available to them.

Agreed.  If the criticism of Khedira was his lack of pace or urgency, and propensity to get bypassed then Can won’t improve much on that.  Emre did well for Liverpool over four years but his dominant games were matched at least by his forgettable or anonymous games.  He can be ponderous in possession, dribbling the ball into blind alleys or caught on the ball, and slow to recover defensive ground.  He does well with the game in front of him, but not suddenly zooming past him.  

Can probably has more physical strength than Khedira to contest possession but he’s definitely not a Modric wizard or a Kante ball-winner. 

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11 hours ago, I am Zlatan said:

Khedira does not deserve to be there on merit anymore. Even if he does not retire, when Can ousts him from the Juve midfield next season it will be obvious which one should be in the setup.

Löw has to go surely? Most of the best German coaches that could replace him are at the start of their careers, tied down at a club and/or wedded to a specific system that would be hard to implement at international level though. Would Heynckes take the job given it is less intensive than managing a club?

That's awfully harsh. Khedira has played a pretty good season for Juve. He had struggled for a while with injuries and getting back to his fitness levels. He himself openly admitted considering to retire from football altogether over that, as in he needs his physical fitness to compete on the highest level, and it's no fun for him if he can't perform on that level anymore. Can hasn't exactly come off after a great season at Liverpool. Thus his omission from the WC squad - although he possibly can't have done worse than Khedira. He has talent, but he has to up his game. I wish him well and hope he does so at Juve.

Well, Löw has had 10 very succesful years (12 if you buy into the narrative that him, and not Klinsmann was the brain behind the German team in 2006) as manager. He had at least reached the semi-final in every competition he had entered with Germany. And given how previous title holders struggled (the last one who did rather well was Brazil in 1998, when they had more or less rebuilt anyway), there's a good argument to give Löw a chance to be in charge of the rebuild process. Depending on who retires and who stays on, Löw might need to change his system anyway. Which could benefit Sane. 

On players who will retire from international football. Mario Gomez is expected to announce his retirement. And I feel kinda sorry for him, as he is by all accounts a genuinely nice guy. Klose said something to that extent, when they were competing for the striker role, and Werner also explicitly mentioned how Gomez was really nice and helpful to him during the World Cup. Too bad he has to retire without a title, and that he picked up that injury during the Euros in 2016, when he was finally Germany's first choice striker. I hope Ginczek stays healthy for a while and manages to show his quality consistently, despite moving that cesspool called Wolfsburg, as I think he is a genuinely good forward.

10 hours ago, Soylent Dropbear said:

Can isn't very good though.

 He has some good games, sure, but he also has games where he looks like he's playing in slow-motion. Germany must have better than him available to them.

That's harsh. Check above, he is undoubtedlly talented, but he has to take the next step. However, I agree he has not quite done that at Liverpool. But it's also fair to note, that Rodgers has shifted Can's position quite a bit. Right back, central midfielder, centre back (I think) in some games too. That is not particularly helpful if you want a consistent performer, as the demands of tthe position vary quite a bit.

18 minutes ago, Iskaral Putsch said:

Can probably has more physical strength than Khedira to contest possession but he’s definitely not a Modric wizard or a Kante ball-winner. 

I think you underestimate Khedira's physicality (at least when he is on his game). And that's more or less the job describtion anyway. Win balls and be a physical presence in midfield, play simple passes or in other words be the water carrier for Kroos - just offer secondary playmaking  when Kroos is unavailable. That's assuming Kroos continues, which is not a given (check above). Right now, I'd rate Rudy higher on the list of players doing that. I am curious whether Napoli really signs him, as Ancelotti really liked him as a player.

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19 hours ago, Soylent Dropbear said:

 

He's a terrific player, so quite possibly we'll see him pull it off at some point, but how many potential opportunities will Brazil have lost in the meantime? 



Exactly. He's the South American Steven Gerrard.

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