Do you think Robert's reasoning for keeping on Slynt?

[Varysblackfyre321]

That he's better than an unknown property? Why do you think he felt so strongly about this that he blocked Arryn from removing him when Robert relegated much of his duties to Arryn?

[Angel Eyes]

16 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

That he's better than an unknown property? Why do you think he felt so strongly about this that he blocked Arryn from removing him when Robert relegated much of his duties to Arryn?

‘Cause he didn’t want to think about putting in a new commander.

On the other hand, I thought that Stannis said that those were Littlefinger’s words.

The thing about Robert is that he isn’t actually stupid, or that he’s smart enough to realize he’s in a bad spot, and doesn’t have the drive to do something about that situation.

[Annalee]

46 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

That he's better than an unknown property? Why do you think he felt so strongly about this that he blocked Arryn from removing him when Robert relegated much of his duties to Arryn?

Robert was next to useless outside of battle.  He didn't have management skills.  Janos Slynt was already there keeping the peace.  Change will require working through someone else who could end up worse.  

[Lollygag]

Just guessing here:

Slynt is LF's man and LF keeps the money and whores coming in which is what Robert really wants. In ACOK Tyrion II, Tyrion got rid of Slynt to undermine LF so if we turn that around, keeping Slynt keeps LF's operations moving smoothly which keeps the money and whores coming. Kinda like every bad rap video ever.

[Giant Ice Spider]

I think Tyrion proved that a better alternative could be found easily enough when he chose Ironhand. To be quite frank, I'm honestly wondering how you do worse than Slynt: he's venal, cowardly, and borderline sycophantic - what more could you not want in a person commanding the gold cloaks?

Robert was lazy, but in this instance it's worth remembering how easy he was to manipulate for people like Littlefinger and Cersei. Obvs in this case it was LF's doing (Cersei doesn't seem to have had anything to do with Slynt before he betrayed Ned). LF needs his man in charge of the gold cloaks, so he makes sure Robert keeps him there.

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

I think Tyrion proved that a better alternative could be found easily enough when he chose Ironhand. To be quite frank, I'm honestly wondering how you do worse than Slynt: he's venal, cowardly, and borderline sycophantic - what more could you not want in a person commanding the gold cloaks?

Not borderline sychopantic-he simply can be to authority, any authority to which he feels can grant him more power. That isn't it of itself a feature to which would be looked down upon by those in authority-he's a kiss ass, a yes man; someone whose clear unambiguous interests lies in their wellfare and willingly to play ball with whatever those in power wants in order to get ahead-useful pawn. And ultimately, he doesn't necessarily have to be the bravest man, and corruption isn't to really be unexpected to a degree-if he was incompetent at his job, he would have never been chosen by Arryn in the end. He can be swayed  if the price or risk is high but so could anyone. Bywater has shown himself to be little more than a pawn for Tyrion going against the queen regent and smuggling away Tommen without her express consent-if he was honorble he would not  have done this, Tyrion basiclly has Bronn suggest a lordship to the man should he do the latter.  We don't really know if Bywater really is better than Slynt is what I'm getting at. 

Hell Blywater was recommended by Varys and even Tyrion thinks  Blywater may be as much Varys' man as Slynt was Cersi's. I can't imagine Varys would recommend such a man if he didn't have some degree on Bywayer. Finding a comptent man, and either high enough in the social latter not to be tempted by the bribery and willingly to do this not so prestigious job which, or a totally honorble man whose incorruptible is not going to be an easy task.

2 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

Robert was lazy, but in this instance it's worth remembering how easy he was to manipulate for people like Littlefinger and Cersei. Obvs in this case it was LF's doing (Cersei doesn't seem to have had anything to do with Slynt before he betrayed Ned). LF needs his man in charge of the gold cloaks, so he makes sure Robert keeps him there.

Meh. It kinda seems hard to think Robert would his foot down on this off the suggestions on LF if he hadn't already had the view of something like corruption being natural in counter-productive or simply wasteful  in trying to end. 

It would have easier for Robert to simply allow Arryn to do away with Slynt, just giving the token nod, and continued on his way-but Robert did feel strongly enough to put his foot down on this even though it's not any relation to any particular pleasure of his.

I think it shows him wanting to be seen as no longer someone trying to really change anything in how things typically work.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

16 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Just guessing here:

Slynt is LF's man and LF keeps the money and whores coming in which is what Robert really wants. In ACOK Tyrion II, Tyrion got rid of Slynt to undermine LF so if we turn that around, keeping Slynt keeps LF's operations moving smoothly which keeps the money and whores coming. Kinda like every bad rap video ever.

Or, simply put, Slynt helps keep Robert's spear bloody in the  night.

[TyrionFan82]

Robert was lazy. He didn't care to govern so keeping Slynt on was easier than trusting the small council to pick a new person. 

[Angel Eyes]

1 minute ago, TyrionFan82 said:

Robert was lazy. He didn't care to govern so keeping Slynt on was easier than trusting the small council to pick a new person. 

This. 

[The Commentator]

Maybe they had an agreement.  Slynt kept Robert's extracurricular activities in secret and Robert let him keep his lucrative job.  

[Angel Eyes]

Just now, Widowmaker 811 said:

Maybe they had an agreement.  Slynt kept Robert's extracurricular activities in secret and Robert let him keep his lucrative job.  

It’s not exactly a secret; there’s a reason why Robert’s called the “whoremonger king”.

[Lollygag]

I want to get rid of Slynt.

Robert: No.

 

I want to get rid of Slynt.

Robert: Sure, do whatever you want.

 

Technically, getting rid of Slynt might require reciting a few more words on Robert’s part, but I don’t think this makes the difference between lazy and not lazy. Neither choice requires effort on Robert’s part as he didn’t involve himself anyhow so it's a wash.

 

[Giant Ice Spider]

20 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not borderline sychopantic-he simply can be to authority, any authority to which he feels can grant him more power. That isn't it of itself a feature to which would be looked down upon by those in authority-he's a kiss ass, a yes man; someone whose clear unambiguous interests lies in their wellfare and willingly to play ball with whatever those in power wants in order to get ahead-useful pawn. And ultimately, he doesn't necessarily have to be the bravest man, and corruption isn't to really be unexpected to a degree-if he was incompetent at his job, he would have never been chosen by Arryn in the end. He can be swayed  if the price or risk is high but so could anyone. Bywater has shown himself to be little more than a pawn for Tyrion going against the queen regent and smuggling away Tommen without her express consent-if he was honorble he would not  have done this, Tyrion basiclly has Bronn suggest a lordship to the man should he do the latter.  We don't really know if Bywater really is better than Slynt is what I'm getting at. 

Hell Blywater was recommended by Varys and even Tyrion thinks  Blywater may be as much Varys' man as Slynt was Cersi's. I can't imagine Varys would recommend such a man if he didn't have some degree on Bywayer. Finding a comptent man, and either high enough in the social latter not to be tempted by the bribery and willingly to do this not so prestigious job which, or a totally honorble man whose incorruptible is not going to be an easy task.

Meh. It kinda seems hard to think Robert would his foot down on this off the suggestions on LF if he hadn't already had the view of something like corruption being natural in counter-productive or simply wasteful  in trying to end. 

It would have easier for Robert to simply allow Arryn to do away with Slynt, just giving the token nod, and continued on his way-but Robert did feel strongly enough to put his foot down on this even though it's not any relation to any particular pleasure of his.

I think it shows him wanting to be seen as no longer someone trying to really change anything in how things typically work.

 

Slynt's cowardice could be an issue. Imagine for a second he was still in command during the Battle of the Blackwater. We know that about a quarter of the City Watch turned and fled. How many would have run if Slynt, coward that he is, decided to flee with them? Would enough have run awy that Stannis could take KL? The walls of KL were guarded almost exclusively by the gold cloaks, after all.

I think Robert would put his foot down if manipulated. He is manipulated/threatened into making Jaime the Warden of the East, and when Ned repeatedly asks him to restore Robert Arryn to this position, he puts his foot down.

[1000th Lord Commander]

I figured it was Littlefinger who told Robert to keep Slynt on. LF was probably taking bribes off Slynt in the first place, as part of a greater embezzeling scheme. Robert didn't care enough about who did the job.

[Varysblackfyre321]

6 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

Slynt's cowardice could be an issue. Imagine for a second he was still in command during the Battle of the Blackwater. We know that about a quarter of the City Watch turned and fled. How many would have run if Slynt, coward that he is, decided to flee with them? Would enough have run awy that Stannis could take KL? The walls of KL were guarded almost exclusively by the gold cloaks, after all.

 

It's always preferable if a pawn is willingly to die at his/her master's behest. Slynt could have abandoned ship. Gave into pressure. Or he could have stayed, not out of pure duty likely, but through the realization Stannis would very much call for his head, and he'd eventually be found and executed for his part in murdering Robert's bastards(though under the direction of who he thought were his rightful rulers).  And to be clear the gold cloaks aren't really soldiers expected to wage battle-they're peace officers, they keep the peace, investigate crimes, etc. Theres not going to be much chance for them each to prove how brave each one is.

Ultimately I feel Robert was touching upon something when he said replacing Slynt would be too much of hassle-it would not be such an easy task in finding a man both competent and incorruptible whose also low-enough in the social latter to where he'd take the job. 

7 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

 I think Robert would put his foot down if manipulated. He is manipulated/threatened into making Jaime the Warden of the East, and when Ned repeatedly asks him to restore Robert Arryn to this position, he puts his foot down.

Robert wasn't threatened into making Jaimie warden of anything. Or probably manipulated in any meaningful  truth be told to actually choosing Jaimie warden of the east. The reasoning behind not simply giving Sweet Robin the title is simple-there was a chance the Dothraki would invade and Robert did not want a sickly child commander of the military forces in such a large part of his kingdom.  Eddard's objections basiclly boil down to him thinking it grants the lanisters too much influence but Ned in general doesn't even like Robert having some on as squires-admitably his fears aren't unjustified given the recent attempt on his son's life, as well as accusations by Lysha that Jon Arryn was murdered by the lanisters but Robert doesn't have Ned's mistrust of the lions-for good reason, house Lanister profits from his continued existence as long as much he needs them. Ned should plainly see why Stannis would already have his hands full managing dragonstone as well the Royal Navy  Jaimie, for all intents and purposes, isn't really a bad choice. Like him or not, everyone would have have to concede no one has more reason to stop the Targyens from regaining control than him; and him being an outsider of the vales grants him little chance in being able to do away with the Arryns to further his own power. 

Robert can be manipulated, like anyone, but he's not so easily manipulated to where he'd do anything to run contrary to his usual frame of thought; Baelish, like most skilled at manipulating others simply preys upon ones preexisting feeling or prejudice on whatever. If Robert hadnt already had his own feelings of trying to purify the goverment having been a waste of time, he would not really fight Jon on this.

[Giant Ice Spider]

18 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It's always preferable if a pawn is willingly to die at his/her master's behest. Slynt could have abandoned ship. Gave into pressure. Or he could have stayed, not out of pure duty likely, but through the realization Stannis would very much call for his head, and he'd eventually be found and executed for his part in murdering Robert's bastards(though under the direction of who he thought were his rightful rulers).  And to be clear the gold cloaks aren't really soldiers expected to wage battle-they're peace officers, they keep the peace, investigate crimes, etc. Theres not going to be much chance for them each to prove how brave each one is.

Ultimately I feel Robert was touching upon something when he said replacing Slynt would be too much of hassle-it would not be such an easy task in finding a man both competent and incorruptible whose also low-enough in the social latter to where he'd take the job. 

Robert wasn't threatened into making Jaimie warden of anything. Or probably manipulated in any meaningful  truth be told to actually choosing Jaimie warden of the east. The reasoning behind not simply giving Sweet Robin the title is simple-there was a chance the Dothraki would invade and Robert did not want a sickly child commander of the military forces in such a large part of his kingdom.  Eddard's objections basiclly boil down to him thinking it grants the lanisters too much influence but Ned in general doesn't even like Robert having some on as squires-admitably his fears aren't unjustified given the recent attempt on his son's life, as well as accusations by Lysha that Jon Arryn was murdered by the lanisters but Robert doesn't have Ned's mistrust of the lions-for good reason, house Lanister profits from his continued existence as long as much he needs them. Ned should plainly see why Stannis would already have his hands full managing dragonstone as well the Royal Navy  Jaimie, for all intents and purposes, isn't really a bad choice. Like him or not, everyone would have have to concede no one has more reason to stop the Targyens from regaining control than him; and him being an outsider of the vales grants him little chance in being able to do away with the Arryns to further his own power. 

Robert can be manipulated, like anyone, but he's not so easily manipulated to where he'd do anything to run contrary to his usual frame of thought; Baelish, like most skilled at manipulating others simply preys upon ones preexisting feeling or prejudice on whatever. If Robert hadnt already had his own feelings of trying to purify the goverment having been a waste of time, he would not really fight Jon on this.

I'm starting to wonder if you actually like Janos Slynt...

Naming Jaime Warden of the East is legitimately dumb. The Lords of the Vale are proud and sanctimonious, and none would take kindly to following the Kingslayer into battle. That's not to say he wouldn't be effective, it's simply that I doubt he could command the loyalty of the Knights of the Vale.

[Bernie Mac]

On 6/29/2018 at 8:41 AM, Giant Ice Spider said:

Slynt's cowardice could be an issue.

Since when is Slynt a coward? 

He's a commoner who had risen to the position of Commander of the Kingsguard, he would have done so based on merit rather than birth. 

On 6/29/2018 at 8:41 AM, Giant Ice Spider said:

 

Imagine for a second he was still in command during the Battle of the Blackwater. We know that about a quarter of the City Watch turned and fled. How many would have run if Slynt, coward that he is, decided to flee with them?

Surely in his time as both Commander of the kingsguard, captain of a gate and before as a regular GC member he will have had threats that he has stood up to, not sure why the assumption is that he would run from the most lucrative job he would ever have. 

 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

I'm starting to wonder if you actually like Janos Slynt...

I'm starting wonder if one can ever say something not entirely negative about a charachter despised by the fandom without being accused of liking or sanctifying  said character. 

 

Me saying Slynt could have stayed at the battle of blackwater out of realization he would merely be hunted and executed should he flee is not the same thing as saying Slynt is good or nice or whatever. 

2 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

Naming Jaime Warden of the East is legitimately dumb. The Lords of the Vale are proud and sanctimonious, and none would take kindly to following the Kingslayer into battle. That's not to say he wouldn't be effective, it's simply that I doubt he could command the loyalty of the Knights of the Vale.

No outsider is going to command the complete loyalty of the Knights  of the vale, but an outsider, someone who could use his position to simply usurp the Arryens is still preferble as opposed to a lord in the vale given the Arryns delicate situation.  Jaimie will never surrender or switch sides. Because that would mean death for him. Jaimie is one of few men Robert could possibly count on to keep true no matter what in regards to this. Jaimie is a perfectly reasonble choice. 

[Giant Ice Spider]

2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Since when is Slynt a coward? 

He's a commoner who had risen to the position of Commander of the Kingsguard, he would have done so based on merit rather than birth. 

Surely in his time as both Commander of the kingsguard, captain of a gate and before as a regular GC member he will have had threats that he has stood up to, not sure why the assumption is that he would run from the most lucrative job he would ever have. 

 

 

I don't think that regular gold cloak duties, beyond finding serial killers and dealing with gang crime (if they even have that in KL), get anywhere near as dangerous as a full-on battle.

Regarding Slynt's courage, here are his final words:

Quote

Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. "Please, my lord. Mercy. I'll … I'll go, I will, I …"

Hardly heroic.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I'm starting wonder if one can ever say something not entirely negative about a charachter despised by the fandom without being accused of liking or sanctifying  said character. 

 

Me saying Slynt could have stayed at the battle of blackwater out of realization he would merely be hunted and executed should he flee is not the same thing as saying Slynt is good or nice or whatever. 

No outsider is going to command the complete loyalty of the Knights  of the vale, but an outsider, someone who could use his position to simply usurp the Arryens is still preferble as opposed to a lord in the vale given the Arryns delicate situation.  Jaimie will never surrender or switch sides. Because that would mean death for him. Jaimie is one of few men Robert could possibly count on to keep true no matter what in regards to this. Jaimie is a perfectly reasonble choice. 

I suppose you have a fair point about me calling you a Janos Slynt fan. I'll give you that.

If you're hunted down, there's still a chance you live (the Brotherhood proved that). I suppose that, since we'll never get a Slynt POV, we can't be 100% certain how he would have acted. This is just my opinion, though I do stick by it.

Regarding your statement 'usurp the Arryns', I have to disagree. I can see the Vale lords flat out refusing any call-to-arms from Jaime. A few houses may answer, true, but not the Royces, and probably not the other Lords Declarant (since they seem to defer to Bronze Yohn). Since Dothraki would be everywhere, there would be no time to put down a Vale rebellion, and even if they could, they cannot invade the Vale by land, and would have issues with storms and supply lines if they invaded by sea.

[Bernie Mac]

27 minutes ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

I don't think that regular gold cloak duties, beyond finding serial killers and dealing with gang crime (if they even have that in KL), get anywhere near as dangerous as a full-on battle.

battles clearly happen in the city, just look at Ned and Jaime. City watch would have their fair share of need of bravery  and a peasant is unlikely to have risen so high if the likes of Jon Arryn (the man who made him commander) and Robert thought him a coward. Corrupt is one thing, but there is no way Robert would allow a coward to command the capital's military nor would the likes of Thorne support him. 

Quote

Regarding Slynt's courage, here are his final words:

Hardly heroic.

It wasn't a heroic situation, he was being executed for shooting his mouth off. Of course he was asking for mercy, you would have to be an idiot to not do so. Him asking for mercy is not a sign of cowardice, most humans would do so in his position. I certainly would, are you telling me you would not? You'd just accept your fate, execution for saying something stupid?