U.S. Politics-Hope Floats 2: We All Float Down Here

[LongRider]

Two tweets: 

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1012515458044612608

Quote

From Justin Trudeau "Journalists tell the stories of our communities, protect democracy, & often put their lives on the line just to do their jobs. Today’s attack in Annapolis is devastating. Our hearts go out to all the victims & their families."

From NBC News: https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1012465124517572615

Quote

"Can you please talk to us about the dead reporters in Annapolis?" “Do you have any words of condolence for the families, Mr. President?” "Why are you walking away?" Pres. Trump does not comment when asked about the deadly Maryland newsroom shooting. http://nbcnews.to/2lG1P6n

sigh.

[S John]

21 hours ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

Wait, have I seen this phrase before and said congratulations? If not, congratulations, m'dear! When's the wedding, has a date been set?

Thanks!  Not sure of the date yet, will be in 2019 though, probably in the spring before it gets too hot.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, Ser Reptitious said:

The problem with that approach is that you seem to think that there has to be one single significant act that everyone realizes symbolizes the end of democracy, unless it is stopped. More than likely that's not how things will go. Think of the saying "that's how democracy ends: not with a bang, but with a whimper." Not to belabour the Nazi analogy, but can you really point to one single moment throughout 1930s Germany that signalled 'THIS IS IT'? Any smart regime (just look at Putin and Erdogan as more recent examples) knows to chip away at the democratic institutions gradually, rather than in one fell swoop. The U.S. is/will be no different. 

We can all see where things are headed. But you seem to say "let's wait a bit longer before getting too alarmed", whereas others, who are either already directly affected (women, minorities, etc.), or who see the writing on the wall are ringing the alarm bell now, in (fading) hopes of stopping the trajectory before its too late. I don't think doing so is being hyperbolic. 

It’s really not an either or situation. Yes, autocrats chip away at the institutions they’re trying to subvert, but typically you can point to a single instance in which everything changes. As others have mentioned, the burning of the Reichstag is the one for Germany, especially if you’re of the belief that it was a false flag attack, which I am. In the U.S., it should be obvious that the single instance for us is when our right to vote is suspended, which many of us fear could happen under a Trump Administration. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

@karaddin

First off, I don’t think Dante’s comment was directed at you.

That said, perhaps something has been lost in translation, because I don’t really disagree with what you wrote. I for one have linked several articles and podcasts from scholars of Nazi Germany arguing that what is happen today in the U.S. is reminiscent of the early days of Nazi Germany. And as I wrote before, Kalbear and I have had several long conversations breaking down just how democracy can come to an end in the U.S. under Trump’s governance. My issue here is that if you point at everything you don’t like that’s happening under Trump and say it’s leading to the end of the Republic, people will check you out and your message will get ignored, and this will compound itself each time you do it when it’s not warranted. Kennedy retiring isn’t even the worst thing that’s happened in the last two years with regards to the Supreme Court. McConnell’s refusal to give Garland a hearing was worse, as was his decision to eliminate the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees, both having lasting ramifications that could destroy the court as a whole. I am not arguing against people saying that the Republic is in peril, but I am saying be judicious when making such claims, otherwise you risk people ignoring you.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

27 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

It’s really not an either or situation. Yes, autocrats chip away at the institutions they’re trying to subvert, but typically you can point to a single instance in which everything changes. As others have mentioned, the burning of the Reichstag is the one for Germany, especially if you’re of the belief that it was a false flag attack, which I am. In the U.S., it should be obvious that the single instance for us is when our right to vote is suspended, which many of us fear could happen under a Trump Administration. 

Don't worry, once Ruth Bader Ginsburg passes and Orange Twitler gets his third Supreme Court pick, you will be on the same page as @Jace, The Sugarcube

[Ser Reptitious]

3 hours ago, SweetPea said:

Does the name of Lindsay Shepherd tell you anything?

I fail to see how your question is related to my question. Care to elaborate?

[Ser Reptitious]

34 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

It’s really not an either or situation. Yes, autocrats chip away at the institutions they’re trying to subvert, but typically you can point to a single instance in which everything changes. As others have mentioned, the burning of the Reichstag is the one for Germany, especially if you’re of the belief that it was a false flag attack, which I am. In the U.S., it should be obvious that the single instance for us is when our right to vote is suspended, which many of us fear could happen under a Trump Administration. 

And what if that moment never comes? Russians are still allowed to vote. Does that make it a legitimate democracy?

[JGP]

3 hours ago, SweetPea said:

Does the name of Lindsay Shepherd tell you anything?

It suggests many things, but doesn't speak with any eloquence to your point. Please, I'm all ears. 

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, Ser Reptitious said:

And what if that moment never comes? Russians are still allowed to vote. Does that make it a legitimate democracy?

I agree, the ability to vote isn't the be all end all in America, because we already have systems in place to pervert the will of the people such that in the past ten year's we've seen the popular vote winner in the House (2012) and Presidency (2000 and 2016) not be the party in power.  Not to mention impediments to voting like culling voter rolls, Voter ID, etc.  If Democrats only win when they have an overwhelming majority of voters, then there's reason to doubt whether we have a democracy at all. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

27 minutes ago, Ser Reptitious said:

And what if that moment never comes? Russians are still allowed to vote. Does that make it a legitimate democracy?

I’m talking about a real vote. Russians don’t have that.

23 minutes ago, Maithanet der Mannschaft said:

I agree, the ability to vote isn't the be all end all in America, because we already have systems in place to pervert the will of the people such that in the past ten year's we've seen the popular vote winner in the House (2012) and Presidency (2000 and 2016) not be the party in power.  Not to mention impediments to voting like culling voter rolls, Voter ID, etc.  If Democrats only win when they have an overwhelming majority of voters, then there's reason to doubt whether we have a democracy at all. 

It’s certainly fair to argue that our democracy is in a very unhealthy place, but that’s different from saying that we don’t have a democracy.

[JGP]

I find all this shit currently circulating about Kennedy's son Justin and Deutsche Bank rather interesting. Probably a coincidence, but could Kennedy have been getting ahead of possible needs to recuse?

[Ser Reptitious]

1 hour ago, chiKanery et al. said:

I’m talking about a real vote. Russians don’t have that.

 

How do you define that? If the Republicans simply keep pushing more and more extremely gerrimandered districts, dial voter suppression tactics and electoral registration purges up to 11 (backed by the Supreme Court), and combine that with electronic voting machines that don't leave a paper trail, at what point does the line get crossed from unhealthy democracy to (Russian-style) fake democracy?

And will that tipping point be observable enough to the general public that people will know that this is the critical moment to freak out and rush out into the streets?

[The guy from the Vale]

I'd even argue that the point where the USA ceased to be a democracy alread happened. It occurred in two steps: Citizens United turning the political system into a plutocracy and the repeal of the Voting Rights Act turning it into a one-party system. Of course, both predate Trump, but he benefitted massively from both of them.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

13 hours ago, James Arryn said:

So, it’s been revealed that Trump’s G6 blow-up was about him insisting that everyone agree to hand over the Crimea to Putin. 

Apparently when they refused he got very angry, and then threatened to make financial demands of NATO allies if they haven’t come around by the time of the next NATO summit. 

There is daylight robbery going on right under our noses, and no one seems to really care all that much. 

I would love to see a link on that.  Where is that information coming from.  Not questioning just wanted to be able to document that when I share the information around.  Thanks.

[IheartIheartTesla]

I dont know, this Kennedy stuff seems like a nothingburger to me. Rich and powerful people interact with rich and powerful people, or sometimes their sons and daughters who also tend to be in rich and powerful positions, and at some point you'll see overlaps like these. I'm not saying there isnt anything there, but a stronger case will have to be made. Particularly since it is Kennedy's son, and not Kennedy himself.

What I found more egregious is Scalia going on hunting trips with Cheney. He didnt even recuse himself from a case involving Cheney. People still respect him, go figure.

[Ran]

49 minutes ago, Scott de Montevideo! said:

I would love to see a link on that.  Where is that information coming from.  Not questioning just wanted to be able to document that when I share the information around.  Thanks.

Jonathan Swan at Axios. He has very good sources in the White House. Per his piece, he was being read excerpts out of the official transcript of the closed door summit.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Switzeran said:

Jonathan Swan at Axios. He has very good sources in the White House. Per his piece, he was being read excerpts out of the official transcript of the closed door summit.

Thank you ser!

 

[JGP]

33 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I dont know, this Kennedy stuff seems like a nothingburger to me. Rich and powerful people interact with rich and powerful people, or sometimes their sons and daughters who also tend to be in rich and powerful positions, and at some point you'll see overlaps like these. I'm not saying there isnt anything there, but a stronger case will have to be made. Particularly since it is Kennedy's son, and not Kennedy himself.

What I found more egregious is Scalia going on hunting trips with Cheney. He didnt even recuse himself from a case involving Cheney. People still respect him, go figure.

True enough. I did qualify with it probably being a coincidence, but you're likely right and you do have a point there. It's not like Cheney shot Scalia, after all.

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, Ser Reptitious said:

How do you define that? If the Republicans simply keep pushing more and more extremely gerrimandered districts, dial voter suppression tactics and electoral registration purges up to 11 (backed by the Supreme Court), and combine that with electronic voting machines that don't leave a paper trail, at what point does the line get crossed from unhealthy democracy to (Russian-style) fake democracy?

And will that tipping point be observable enough to the general public that people will know that this is the critical moment to freak out and rush out into the streets?

International election monitors and human rights orgs. Freedom House, for example.

[Kalbear]

10 hours ago, Relic said:

We're all the heroes of our own narrative I suppose, but you really take that shit to the next level. You have zero idea how much "skin" other people might have, and your assumption that you DO know is just you dutch-ovening yourself and loving it. 

Whereas you telling other people that either they do exactly what you tell them to or they should never post in this thread again is particularly based on knowledge.

10 hours ago, Relic said:

Edit - In general I have no idea why this is even a topic of conversation. Honestly. If all "expats" ever did was post on here about how everyone is a loser and should do more while doing nothing themselves, you might have a point. Clearly, that is not the case. 

it's a topic because you told people to get out of this thread and stop posting unless they did precisely what you - a person not living in the US - told them to do.