Player of the tournament so far

[Winterfell is Burning]

5 hours ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Ever heard of this guy name Messi? He was clearly the biggest disappointment. You can't be called the best ever, or even the best of your generation if you're going to disappear like that on the biggest stage. And I say that as a huge Messi/Argentina fan.

I

On Argentina's two decisive games, he scored a great goal in one and gave two assists in the other.

[Iskaral Pust]

Hazard will need a chiropractor after carrying the entire Belgian team for most of that game. 

Good call on Ochoa.  Brilliant in two World Cups but basically anonymous in between. 

[Consigliere]

14 hours ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Ever heard of this guy name Messi? He was clearly the biggest disappointment. You can't be called the best ever, or even the best of your generation if you're going to disappear like that on the biggest stage. And I say that as a huge Messi/Argentina fan.

Messi hardly disappeared though. Sampaoli didn't know what the fuck he was doing, constantly chopping and changing formations and personnel, only bringing in Banega for the last two games and continuing to play a bang average Perez over Lo Celso. This is still a team game and there is only so much even a player like Messi can do in a poor setup. 

[Mme Erzulie]

If M'bappe keeps playing like he did against Argentina, he will be player of the tournament. I pity any defender who has to deal with that.

 

[Consigliere]

Very unlikely that Uruguay play with such a high line and they are a far more organised team than Argentina. Mbappe played well but was helped in no small part by Argentina being all over the place defensively. 

[Mark Antony]

If Uruguay get by France I imagine we will be throwing Godins name into this thread. He’s been a rock at the back all tourney. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

16 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

If Uruguay get by France I imagine we will be throwing Godins name into this thread. He’s been a rock at the back all tourney. 

He and GImenez are one heck of a pairing at the back.

I’ve been impressed by their full backs, Careces and Laxalt, too. Chelsea were linked with Laxalt last summer, but I hadn’t seen him play. Watching him at the World Cup, he’s the type of full back we need.

[Mme Erzulie]

Dejan

[BigFatCoward]

Assuming you have to make the final to win player of the tournament its got to be Modric, MMMBOP or Kante.

[Iskaral Pust]

34 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Assuming you have to make the final to win player of the tournament its got to be Modric, MMMBOP or Kante.

I like my early call of Modric but I think the French players will get the FIFA glamour assist.  I can see Mbappe getting it for being exciting and marketable, albeit not exactly crucial to the team.  Or Pogba, despite only really playing well against Belgium.  Perhaps Mbappe will just settle for young player of the tournament.

The French are a relatively balanced team with no stand-out superstar.  Giroud and Griezman have been very good and more important without being as sexy as Mbappe.  Kante and the back five have been very solid without meeting the usual FIFA criteria for a superstar.

Harry Kane's golden boot wasn't really merited this time (if goals were weighted for quality or quality of opposition) so I won't pretend that the golden ball should be either.

Overall, I think Eden Hazard was probably the best player in the entire WC based on quality, consistency, depth into the tournament, significance to his team and quality of opposition.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Assuming you have to make the final to win player of the tournament its got to be Modric, MMMBOP or Kante.

You don't, necessarily (cf Forlan 2010, Schillachi 1990) but it's really between Mbappe and Modric, I'd think. Possibly one of the Belgians might be in with a shout.

[polishgenius]

11 hours ago, Iskaral Putsch said:

  Or Pogba, despite only really playing well against Belgium.

This is just untrue. He's been good in every game. and fantastic against both Brazil and Belgium.

Modric may well win it by dint of French votes being split between Mbappe, Kante, Pogba and possibly Varane.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Hazard for me.

But Modric or Mbappe are probably in a better position, depending on who wins the final.

Attention lame joke coming.

But it doesn't matter as Harry Kane will claim it.

[Consigliere]

14 hours ago, Iskaral Putsch said:

Giroud and Griezman have been very good and more important without being as sexy as Mbappe.  Kante and the back five have been very solid without meeting the usual FIFA criteria for a superstar.

I don't think either Griezmann or Giroud have been all that good. Griezmann was pretty wank in the group stage but his performances have improved a bit in the knockouts. Giroud is putting in a shift but the tactics aren't really helping him. France are sitting back and looking to play quick balls over the top and in behind - that isn't Giroud's game. Against Argentina for example, Giroud was anonymous in the 1st half. It was only when France went behind and they had to play more on the front foot that Giroud was able to get involved in the game with hold-up and link-up play.  He didn't have a good game against Belgium either and has been average overall.

 

I think it will be between Modric and Mbappe. I hope Modric wins it because Mbappe hasn't even been the best player (or top 2) for France let alone the best player in the tournament. 

[Iskaral Pust]

2 hours ago, Prince Onyinye W. Ndidi said:

I don't think either Griezmann or Giroud have been all that good. Griezmann was pretty wank in the group stage but his performances have improved a bit in the knockouts. Giroud is putting in a shift but the tactics aren't really helping him. France are sitting back and looking to play quick balls over the top and in behind - that isn't Giroud's game. Against Argentina for example, Giroud was anonymous in the 1st half. It was only when France went behind and they had to play more on the front foot that Giroud was able to get involved in the game with hold-up and link-up play.  He didn't have a good game against Belgium either and has been average overall.

 

I think it will be between Modric and Mbappe. I hope Modric wins it because Mbappe hasn't even been the best player (or top 2) for France let alone the best player in the tournament. 

I think that’s harsh on Giroud.  He fulfills a role similar to Firmino, but with fewer goals in this small sample.  His shooting has been poor for sure.  But the French attack doesn’t work without him.  That’s why he has played almost every minute since they abandoned the system that failed without him.  His grunt work is vital to making it all work.  His flicks, passes, one-twos, headers allow the others to run behind.

I’m shocked anyone thinks Griezmann has had a poor tournament.  He plays like a slightly advanced version of Modric and has been crucial in crafting attacking possession, plus offers a goal threat and set-piece threat: three goals, two assists plus some further narrow misses from free kicks. 

If Giroud and Griezmann are so poor, how do you think France reached the final?  Mbappe has been good but he hasn’t carried this team, or even been crucial to victories other than against Argentina.  This entire team plays their role within a balanced system and almost all of them have been consistently good without any specific superstars. 

[Mark Antony]

Yeahhh still sticking with Kante. Been a top 3 player in every single game. 

[Consigliere]

20 minutes ago, Iskaral Putsch said:

I think that’s harsh on Giroud.  He fulfills a role similar to Firmino, but with fewer goals in this small sample.  His shooting has been poor for sure.  But the French attack doesn’t work without him.  That’s why he has played almost every minute since they abandoned the system that failed without him.  His grunt work is vital to making it all work.  His flicks, passes, one-twos, headers allow the others to run behind.

I’m shocked anyone thinks Griezmann has had a poor tournament.  He plays like a slightly advanced version of Modric and has been crucial in crafting attacking possession, plus offers a goal threat and set-piece threat: three goals, two assists plus some further narrow misses from free kicks. 

If Giroud and Griezmann are so poor, how do you think France reached the final?  Mbappe has been good but he hasn’t carried this team, or even been crucial to victories other than against Argentina.  This entire team plays their role within a balanced system and almost all of them have been consistently good without any specific superstars. 

As I said, Griezmann has improved in the knockouts. As for Giroud, like I said, he puts in a shift but the system doesn't really suit him. A #9 with a bit more pace would be better suited. 

Pogba, Kante, Varane have been the standout players for France - consistently good in every game they've played and in the case of Kante+Pogba, they've been class. 

What is actually shocking is you saying Griezmann and Giroud were very good but then also say that Pogba's only good game was against Belgium. If you really believe that then your definition of "very good" wrt Giroud and Griezmann is suspect. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 hours ago, Iskaral Putsch said:

Harry Kane's golden boot wasn't really merited this time (if goals were weighted for quality or quality of opposition) so I won't pretend that the golden ball should be either.

Blasphemer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Iskaral Pust]

5 minutes ago, Prince Onyinye W. Ndidi said:

What is actually shocking is you saying Griezmann and Giroud were very good but then also say that Pogba's only good game was against Belgium. If you really believe that then your definition of "very good" wrt Giroud and Griezmann is suspect. 

That’s fair.  I often hold Pogba to a higher standard because of the media hype that he is the superstar on the French team, the most naturally gifted game-changer and the heir to Zidane.  But he does not deliver at anything close to that level. 

He was conspicuously poor in the opening game against Australia (hardly alone but he and Tolisso were especially ineffective in MF) despite forcing the winning OG.  He was conspicuously good against Belgium shielding his defense and making some great moves to create a yard of space to make a forward pass.  In between he did little of any note against Peru or Denmark or Uruguay (whose MF outworked the French to contain them) and was OK against Argentina but not great — Argentina came back by creating goals from through balls where Pogba should have been. 

You could say the same about most of the French team because, other than Mbappe against Argentina, they have mostly been good or not great as a unit.  Very few individual performances have varied significantly from the team level.   

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Putsch said:

That’s fair.  I often hold Pogba to a higher standard because of the media hype that he is the superstar on the French team, the most naturally gifted game-changer and the heir to Zidane.  But he does not deliver at anything close to that level. 

He was conspicuously poor in the opening game against Australia (hardly alone but he and Tolisso were especially ineffective in MF) despite forcing the winning OG.  He was conspicuously good against Belgium shielding his defense and making some great moves to create a yard of space to make a forward pass.  In between he did little of any note against Peru or Denmark or Uruguay (whose MF outworked the French to contain them) and was OK against Argentina but not great — Argentina came back by creating goals from through balls where Pogba should have been. 

You could say the same about most of the French team because, other than Mbappe against Argentina, they have mostly been good or not great as a unit.  Very few individual performances have varied significantly from the team level.   

I disagree about Pogba (he didn't play against Denmark). Against Argentina, Pogba made about twice as many ball recoveries as any other player and was France's prime creator as well - it was a very similar story against Uruguay as well. Even in the opening game where France as a whole looked poor, Pogba was the key creator of both goals. He has ranged from good to excellent in every game - defensively very good as well as the main man when it comes to starting attacks and linking play. 

I agree that the media hype is a problem when it comes to Pogba. Many of those articles come across like the author has only watched a 5 minute Youtube video of Pogba's bangers at Juventus and have formed an opinion on the type of player he is based on that.