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This whole Gregor Raids early on before the Lannister invasion got me stumped


Frey Kings

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Tywin orders Gregor and others to burn the Riverlands. So him and his crew pretty much goes unchallenged burning, looting, raiding, sacking, raping, etc A sh-t load of land from the borders of the Westerlands all the way to the borders of the Vale.

So Thats pretty much Piper lands, Vance lands, Bracken lands, and I don't know where everyone thinks Darry lands are... But I'm set on it being North of the trident and the closest Major House to the Vale.

That's a major accomplish! Geography wise, thats a huge chunk of land to cause mass chaos in without zero 'real resistance'.  Is he superman? Give that man a trophy.

And the fact that Lady Whent just openly surrendered and gave up her castle of Harrenhal. Is surreal.

 

Can you name another part of a kingdom where someone can through that much land?

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7 minutes ago, Frey Kings said:

Tywin orders Gregor and others to burn the Riverlands. So him and his crew pretty much goes unchallenged burning, looting, raiding, sacking, raping, etc A sh-t load of land from the borders of the Westerlands all the way to the borders of the Vale.

So Thats pretty much Piper lands, Vance lands, Bracken lands, and I don't know where everyone thinks Darry lands are... But I'm set on it being North of the trident and the closest Major House to the Vale.

That's a major accomplish! Geography wise, thats a huge chunk of land to cause mass chaos in without zero 'real resistance'.  Is he superman? Give that man a trophy.

And the fact that Lady Whent just openly surrendered and gave up her castle of Harrenhal. Is surreal.

 

Can you name another part of a kingdom where someone can through that much land?

Lady Whent was broke and had very few men at arms in her service and was in possession of litterally the biggest castle in Westeros, this equals even if she did resist Tywins men would still scale the walls or enter through another means and then MURDER of all or Lady Whents men and raped and murderd her as well. So realistically she did what she thought was best for her survival and i tend to agree although very cowardly.

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6 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Lady Whent was broke and had very few men at arms in her service and was in possession of litterally the biggest castle in Westeros, this equals even if she did resist Tywins men would still scale the walls or enter through another means and then MURDER of all or Lady Whents men and raped and murderd her as well. So realistically she did what she thought was best for her survival and i tend to agree although very cowardly.

And.... They were murdered anyways. Most Likely. And where is House Whent now?  yea R.I.P.

 

I'm no Military expect in the fantasy world of ASOIAF but i'm pretty much they have a somewhat of army from surrounding areas sworn to them. Since LF desired Harrenhal so badly. 

 

But for the plotline to advance Tywin/Gregor/Vargo/Roose needed Harrenhal.

 

This whole raiding and looting from the borders of the Westerlands to the Vale is COMICAL. LAUGHABLE and SAD!!!

 

 

 

But seriously Gregor raided and burn all this much land with ZERO resistance? My god, even the Kings of the Crossing wouldn't tolerate these shenanigans! 

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31 minutes ago, Frey Kings said:

Tywin orders Gregor and others to burn the Riverlands. So him and his crew pretty much goes unchallenged burning, looting, raiding, sacking, raping, etc A sh-t load of land from the borders of the Westerlands all the way to the borders of the Vale.

So Thats pretty much Piper lands, Vance lands, Bracken lands, and I don't know where everyone thinks Darry lands are... But I'm set on it being North of the trident and the closest Major House to the Vale.

That's a major accomplish! Geography wise, thats a huge chunk of land to cause mass chaos in without zero 'real resistance'.  Is he superman? Give that man a trophy.

It actually makes more sense when you consider that Gregor was tasked with chevauchee, him sticking around in one place increases the chances of him being stopped. The lands around Piper would be on high alert so Gregor goes some distance to attack a vulnerable settlement in the Bracken lands and again Darry. 

 

31 minutes ago, Frey Kings said:

And the fact that Lady Whent just openly surrendered and gave up her castle of Harrenhal. Is surreal.

 

Harrenhal was not really down to Gregor. Edmure had called the Riverland banners to Riverrun and his aunt Whent likely sent too many of her own men to her nephew, too many to in turn defend her own lands (given the size of Harrenhal and its reputation of something of a white elephant this is understandable) so when Tywin's 20k army was marching in the Riverlands the heirless Whent chose to vacate the lands. 

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5 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

It actually makes more sense when you consider that Gregor was tasked with chevauchee, him sticking around in one place increases the chances of him being stopped. The lands around Piper would be on high alert so Gregor goes some distance to attack a vulnerable settlement in the Bracken lands and again Darry. 

 

These Riverlords in particular had no answer, That was the problem. Doesn't matter who it was. Like sh!t Try to raid & burn the Dornish marches up & down. See how that goes.

Piper lands border the Westerlands. Fine I give them a pass for being caught off guard. But for Vance lands, Bracken lands and Darry lands. There is no excuse. There were no one around with a shield? a bow? no greenboys? 

 

Someone should've told Theon after his was done climbing the Winterfell's walls to come and get these castles as well. :D

 

 

Gregor & his riders made vast distances and vast CHAOS in a short time period.

Then again.

& Again.

 

Gregor is either the best raider that puts all the Ironborn, Pirates, Slavers, Dothraki's to shame or these Riverlords are brain dead. 

 

Its just unacceptable.

 

 

You can't stop a couple hundred raiders causing chaos for 100 miles? (guessing)

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Castles don't matter all that much in ASOIAF, in general castles are really, really, really good at doing their job at that technological level but they'll just fall as and when GRRM wants them to so I wouldn't pay it much heed. Look at the Battle of the Blackwater, half the attacking entire fleet gets exploded and thousands die yet the garrison's still running away before they've even breached the walls or crossed the river in much force because... the King left the wall? 
 

Regarding the raid, they're all mounted and well armed and armoured burning villages, before anyone can respond with reasonable force they're gone, cavalry excels at that so that's not that ridiculous. The American Civil war has some great examples of deep cavalry raids at a technological level that's better at countering them and they were still very effective.

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13 minutes ago, Frey Kings said:

These Riverlords in particular had no answer, That was the problem. Doesn't matter who it was. Like sh!t Try to raid & burn the Dornish marches up & down. See how that goes.

Piper lands border the Westerlands. Fine I give them a pass for being caught off guard. But for Vance lands, Bracken lands and Darry lands. There is no excuse. There were no one around with a shield? a bow? no greenboys? 

 

Someone should've told Theon after his was done climbing the Winterfell's walls to come and get these castles as well. :D

 

 

Gregor & his riders made vast distances and vast CHAOS in a short time period.

Then again.

& Again.

 

Gregor is either the best raider that puts all the Ironborn, Pirates, Slavers, Dothraki's to shame or these Riverlords are brain dead. 

 

Its just unacceptable.

 

 

You can't stop a couple hundred raiders causing chaos for 100 miles? (guessing)

Gregor and his men (shoutout to Shitmouf!) seem uniquely suited for this sort of combat.  They took Beric's party by surprise and slaughtered them, and that was a formidable fighting force.

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1 hour ago, Frey Kings said:

Tywin orders Gregor and others to burn the Riverlands. So him and his crew pretty much goes unchallenged burning, looting, raiding, sacking, raping, etc A sh-t load of land from the borders of the Westerlands all the way to the borders of the Vale.

So Thats pretty much Piper lands, Vance lands, Bracken lands, and I don't know where everyone thinks Darry lands are... But I'm set on it being North of the trident and the closest Major House to the Vale.

That's a major accomplish! Geography wise, thats a huge chunk of land to cause mass chaos in without zero 'real resistance'.  Is he superman? Give that man a trophy.

And the fact that Lady Whent just openly surrendered and gave up her castle of Harrenhal. Is surreal.

 

Can you name another part of a kingdom where someone can through that much land?

Small highly mobile group contantly moving and leaving few survivors many prob too petrified to talk 

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24 minutes ago, LindsayLohan said:

Gregor and his men (shoutout to Shitmouf!) seem uniquely suited for this sort of combat.  They took Beric's party by surprise and slaughtered them, and that was a formidable fighting force.

Maybe it will be a formidable fighting force if Loras was in it. BUT how embarrassing is it to have the Crown intervene to stop raiders in lands you cannot protect. What if they turned out to be slavers from Yunkai? 

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This thread brings an important discussion:

Upon his arrival in King's Landing, and being notified (even incorrectly) about Bran/Catelyn being attacked, Ned immediately sends secret instructions to his bannermen, preparing defenses for war.  He has Galbart Glover and Helman Tallhart fortify Moat Cailin, Wyman Manderly fortify White Harbor, and has Theon Greyjoy put under guard.  He uses Cat as the messenger. 

This bish didn't tell her brother in Riverrun?  Within a few weeks Gregor is slaughtering people all over the place, and Ned's deputies from King's Landing get crushed.  She didn't even have to spill details, simply saying "Ned has decided to upgrade Northern defensive positions."  Edmure and Robin Ryger would have instantly known something was up and done the same.

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36 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:


 

Regarding the raid, they're all mounted and well armed and armoured burning villages, before anyone can respond with reasonable force they're gone, cavalry excels at that so that's not that ridiculous. The American Civil war has some great examples of deep cavalry raids at a technological level that's better at countering them and they were still very effective.

Pull out the Map and look at much land they hit and hit hard, during Gregor's first run into the riverlands and repeat that over and over again.

 

You mean to tell these all these "Great Houses" can't stop these "bandits"?

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1 minute ago, Frey Kings said:

Pull out the Map and look at much land they hit and hit hard, during Gregor's first run into the riverlands and repeat that over and over again.

You mean to tell these all these "Great Houses" can't stop these "bandits"?

They have no idea where they are, they are constantly on the move and there is no real clear targets for Gregor, it is whoever seems vulnerable. 

And due to Edmure calling his banners, sending 4k to the Golden Tooth, defending the borders and organizing the rest at Riverrun for a potential war with the West then they simply don't have the manpower to also find Gregor ( if it is even Gregor, they need the Crown to sign off on that first) and bring him to justice. 

 

 

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Just now, Bernie Mac said:

They have no idea where they are, they are constantly on the move and there is no real clear targets for Gregor, it is whoever seems vulnerable. 

And due to Edmure calling his banners, sending 4k to the Golden Tooth, defending the borders and organizing the rest at Riverrun for a potential war with the West then they simply don't have the manpower to also find Gregor ( if it is even Gregor, they need the Crown to sign off on that first) and bring him to justice. 

 

 

Forget all the Army mobilizing stuff.

 

They were raiders. You could tell because they were burning and sacking places from A to Z. They could've been from the Narrow Sea or a small band of dothrakis that teleported into the Riverlands. 

 

But these Riverlords couldn't stop them. 

 

 

We hear about Slaver Raids, Dothraki Raids, Wildling Raids, Pirate Raids, Ironborn Raids all the time. 

 

But these High Lords couldn't stop them during 100 miles of raping and sacking of everything in sight?

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26 minutes ago, Frey Kings said:

Pull out the Map and look at much land they hit and hit hard, during Gregor's first run into the riverlands and repeat that over and over again.

 

You mean to tell these all these "Great Houses" can't stop these "bandits"?

 

How do you stop them? You need a force of equal strength to match them, that takes time to assemble since they're all mounted. You don't know where they're going, you won't know where they've hit until messengers or ravens have reached you, they're attacking soft targets so they won't slow them down much and cavalry can cover a lot of ground and Darry even explains that he and his men were encamped at Riverrun after being summoned by Edmure. They weren't slowed down by cattle or other livestock, they rode in killed, burned and rode on to the next village. It would  take a large force and a concerted effort from several lords to pin them down and stop them escaping and all the information they'd need to do it. The situation was confused and over quickly it wasn't much of an extended period of raiding. 

And let's remember they aren't bandits, they're well equipped men at arms that have a specific job to do. You might as well ask why Jaime can't stop the Riverlords from performing raids against him, cavalry are hard to catch and it's not easy to predict where they'll strike even more so when Gregor can just attack any weakly defended village he can reach. 

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45 minutes ago, LindsayLohan said:

Upon his arrival in King's Landing, and being notified (even incorrectly) about Bran/Catelyn being attacked, Ned immediately sends secret instructions to his bannermen, preparing defenses for war.  He has Galbart Glover and Helman Tallhart fortify Moat Cailin, Wyman Manderly fortify White Harbor, and has Theon Greyjoy put under guard.  He uses Cat as the messenger. 

I don't remember her getting to tell Glover, Tallhart and Manderly to fortify North since she met Tyrion at the Inn. Luckily, Robb proved to do the same, save for Theon. 

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11 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

 

How do you stop them? You need a force of equal strength to match them, that takes time to assemble since they're all mounted. You don't know where they're going, you won't know where they've hit until messengers or ravens have reached you, they're attacking soft targets so they won't slow them down much and cavalry can cover a lot of ground and Darry even explains that he and his men were encamped at Riverrun after being summoned by Edmure. They weren't slowed down by cattle or other livestock, they rode in killed, burned and rode on to the next village. It would  take a large force and a concerted effort from several lords to pin them down and stop them escaping and all the information they'd need to do it. The situation was confused and over quickly it wasn't much of an extended period of raiding. 

And let's remember they aren't bandits, they're well equipped men at arms that have a specific job to do. You might as well ask why Jaime can't stop the Riverlords from performing raids against him, cavalry are hard to catch and it's not easy to predict where they'll strike even more so when Gregor can just attack any weakly defended village he can reach. 

5 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

 

How do you stop them? You need a force of equal strength to match them, that takes time to assemble since they're all mounted. You don't know where they're going, you won't know where they've hit until messengers or ravens have reached you, they're attacking soft targets so they won't slow them down much and cavalry can cover a lot of ground and Darry even explains that he and his men were encamped at Riverrun after being summoned by Edmure. They weren't slowed down by cattle or other livestock, they rode in killed, burned and rode on to the next village. It would  take a large force and a concerted effort from several lords to pin them down and stop them escaping and all the information they'd need to do it. The situation was confused and over quickly it wasn't much of an extended period of raiding. 

Its your lands. Arent you suppose to know your own lands? Its not really that vast and open and wild like The North.

Do we need to Inspector Gadget on this one? :D

Again they hit lands from bordering Westerlands to the Vale. Repeatedly. 

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Again what does knowing your own lands do? You can't protect every village. The Scottish/English border is 96 miles long yet border raiding was common place. What does it being wild have to do with anything? They're on horses so you cannot catch up to them, what are you going to send messages to every single petty lord in the Riverlands and order them to protect every village? That's ridiculous and they still probably couldn't raise enough men in time to stop a force like Gregor's. Frankly our own history is absolutely full of cavalry basically raiding at will so I really don't get why you think it's so unbelievable. J.E.B Stuart twice ran cavalry raids round the entire Union Army of the Potomac, why didn't they stop him? Cavalry can move quick and it's hard to organise and communicate to stop them, it's even harder in a feudal setting.

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