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This whole Gregor Raids early on before the Lannister invasion got me stumped


Frey Kings

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16 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

Again what does knowing your own lands do? You can't protect every village. The Scottish/English border is 96 miles long yet border raiding was common place. What does it being wild have to do with anything? They're on horses so you cannot catch up to them, what are you going to send messages to every single petty lord in the Riverlands and order them to protect every village? That's ridiculous and they still probably couldn't raise enough men in time to stop a force like Gregor's. Frankly our own history is absolutely full of cavalry basically raiding at will so I really don't get why you think it's so unbelievable. J.E.B Stuart twice ran cavalry raids round the entire Union Army of the Potomac, why didn't they stop him? Cavalry can move quick and it's hard to organise and communicate to stop them, it's even harder in a feudal setting.

The last person that did this vast amount of damage so quickly had one eye and a dragon. 

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You are wrong. The lands Gregor raids at start are Vance and Piper lands close to the border and also curiously, Darry lands again near the border(Darry keep is near trident)

Only after the invasion Gregor or Lorch or whoever else go near the vale or Bracken lands or any other place. 

Those holdfasts were undefended because Edmure called his banners in response to Tywin massing men.

Edmure acted smart, at least at the beginning by calling his bannermen as soon as possible. While chivalric, splitting them to defend every village was less than smart.

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Martin plays fast and loose with logic in service of plot advancement. Case in point Theon conquering Winterfell with 20 not so good men.

Storm’s End is impregnable, but Aegon needs to capture it for plot reasons, so he will.

Gregor can raid the populous Riverlands at will, yet Jon says Stannis’s force will be bled every step of the way if they dare cross the Umber lands, even after the Umbers have sent their main strength with Robb and their reserve strength to Winterfell, because “the Umbers know every rock and every tree of their land”.

Inconsistency is a hallmark of this story, I have learnt.

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Now that I have read the entire thread, you are wrong on so many levels.

Piper and Vance are both located near the border. Darry lands are near the Trident but apparently they also have lands on Redfork near the border. Brackens get raided only after the invasion. Lands were undefended b

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19 hours ago, Frey Kings said:

So him and his crew pretty much goes unchallenged burning, looting, raiding, sacking, raping, etc A sh-t load of land from the borders of the Westerlands all the way to the borders of the Vale. 

 

2 hours ago, Stuart Littlefinger said:

Watch the Preston Jacobs series of videos "Riverlands of the Dragon" 

I think this deserves a certain elaboration. A while ago, one poster did an analysis of iconic fight between Daemon and Aemond from Princess and the Queen. He pointed out how the entire account of the fight is full of self-contradictions and utter nonsense - which might point to the fact that the entire account is in fact intentionally full of shit. And people take it as the holy word and make grand elaborations from that.

Ergo, we probably shouldn't trust self-contradictory accounts, especially made by shifty unverifiable sources.

In his "Riverlands of the Dragon" video (the first part), Preston does something similar. He points out that the entire account given to Ned is full of shit. The account(s) are self-contradictory and it doesn't take CinemaSins counter to see something is very wrong with it. In addition, Preston points out how Lord Darry is heading the whole thing - and Darrys are notorious super-loyalists of the Targaryens whose allegiances were stated in text on multiple occasions. And Ned is just the kind of dummy that falls for this.

Gregor flies over the Riverlands unchallenged, killing the locals with sonic boom... because it's all a lie. Gregor is innocent and was framed by Targaryen loyalists to facilitate in-fighting between two Great Houses set against the Targaryens. The so-called "plan" to lure out Eddard allegedly concocted by Tywin is a bunch of nonsense and is relayed to the reader by a man not in position to know Tywin's scheming.

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20 minutes ago, Myrish Lace said:

 

I think this deserves a certain elaboration. A while ago, one poster did an analysis of iconic fight between Daemon and Aemond from Princess and the Queen. He pointed out how the entire account of the fight is full of self-contradictions and utter nonsense - which might point to the fact that the entire account is in fact intentionally full of shit. And people take it as the holy word and make grand elaborations from that.

Ergo, we probably shouldn't trust self-contradictory accounts, especially made by shifty unverifiable sources.

In his "Riverlands of the Dragon" video (the first part), Preston does something similar. He points out that the entire account given to Ned is full of shit. The account(s) are self-contradictory and it doesn't take CinemaSins counter to see something is very wrong with it. In addition, Preston points out how Lord Darry is heading the whole thing - and Darrys are notorious super-loyalists of the Targaryens whose allegiances were stated in text on multiple occasions. And Ned is just the kind of dummy that falls for this.

Gregor flies over the Riverlands unchallenged, killing the locals with sonic boom... because it's all a lie. Gregor is innocent and was framed by Targaryen loyalists to facilitate in-fighting between two Great Houses set against the Targaryens. The so-called "plan" to lure out Eddard allegedly concocted by Tywin is a bunch of nonsense and is relayed to the reader by a man not in position to know Tywin's scheming.

Are you perchance Preston Jacobs himself? Else you are one of his crackpot followers. Either way, please stop promoting his uninformed, baseless fantasies here. Seriously, I have seldom come across hogwash of the level I found when accidentally clicking on one of his videos a few years ago. Luckily I never repeated the mistake thereafter.

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3 hours ago, Myrish Lace said:

 

I think this deserves a certain elaboration. A while ago, one poster did an analysis of iconic fight between Daemon and Aemond from Princess and the Queen. He pointed out how the entire account of the fight is full of self-contradictions and utter nonsense - which might point to the fact that the entire account is in fact intentionally full of shit. And people take it as the holy word and make grand elaborations from that.

Ergo, we probably shouldn't trust self-contradictory accounts, especially made by shifty unverifiable sources.

In his "Riverlands of the Dragon" video (the first part), Preston does something similar. He points out that the entire account given to Ned is full of shit. The account(s) are self-contradictory and it doesn't take CinemaSins counter to see something is very wrong with it. In addition, Preston points out how Lord Darry is heading the whole thing - and Darrys are notorious super-loyalists of the Targaryens whose allegiances were stated in text on multiple occasions. And Ned is just the kind of dummy that falls for this.

Gregor flies over the Riverlands unchallenged, killing the locals with sonic boom... because it's all a lie. Gregor is innocent and was framed by Targaryen loyalists to facilitate in-fighting between two Great Houses set against the Targaryens. The so-called "plan" to lure out Eddard allegedly concocted by Tywin is a bunch of nonsense and is relayed to the reader by a man not in position to know Tywin's scheming.

Damn right he did! He was such a diehard targyboy he died hard at the hands of Gregor and so was his son who was also killed by Gregor. Gregor killed them because Darries have slandered him, saying he was a raider raper. He cleansed his honor by killing Darrys. 

Fer sure!

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4 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

They were caught unprepared.  That was a bold move by the Lannisters to disrespect the king's peace.  

From Robert's perspective it was the Starks who broke the Kings peace both in the Riverlands and the capital

"Abductions on the kingsroad and drunken slaughter in my streets," the king said. "I will not have it, Ned."
"Catelyn had good reason for taking the Imp—"
"I said, I will not have it! To hell with her reasons. You will command her to release the dwarf at once, and you will make your peace with Jaime."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Silence!" the king roared. "You asked him a question and he answered it." Cersei subsided, cold with anger, and Robert turned back to Ned. "Keep the king'speace, you say. Is this how you keep my peace, Ned? Seven men are dead …"

 

Robert was not really a huge problem in this regard, he was not going to punish his father-in-law over some peasants telling stories;  though that would change if he ever became aware and believed the stories about his children. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

From Robert's perspective it was the Starks who broke the Kings peace both in the Riverlands and the capital

"Abductions on the kingsroad and drunken slaughter in my streets," the king said. "I will not have it, Ned."
"Catelyn had good reason for taking the Imp—"
"I said, I will not have it! To hell with her reasons. You will command her to release the dwarf at once, and you will make your peace with Jaime."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Silence!" the king roared. "You asked him a question and he answered it." Cersei subsided, cold with anger, and Robert turned back to Ned. "Keep the king'speace, you say. Is this how you keep my peace, Ned? Seven men are dead …"

 

Robert was not really a huge problem in this regard, he was not going to punish his father-in-law over some peasants telling stories;  though that would change if he ever became aware and believed the stories about his children. 

 

The Lannisters tried to murder Bran in his own home.  Jaime broke guest rights.

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6 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

The Lannisters tried to murder Bran in his own home.  Jaime broke guest rights.

Not sure what that has to do with Robert or your original point? 

The Starks have excuses why they broke the kings peace just as Tywin had (his son being abducted), Robert was likely to hand wave all these crimes away as he was more interested in keeping the peace. 

The Starks think the Lannisters tried to kill Bran, they actually have no real evidence of it while Ned has admitted taking the Imp. 

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On 6/29/2018 at 4:55 PM, Frey Kings said:

These lords should hang just give up their lands and hang their heads in shame. PATHETIC.

People came to KL to complain about the raiding. It's in an Eddard chapter in the first book, GoT. Supposedly it is peaceful in the seven kingdoms until Cat snatches Tyrion.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XI     The villagers were kneeling: men, women, and children, alike tattered and bloody, their faces drawn by fear. The three knights who had brought them here to bear witness stood behind them.     "Brigands, Lord Varys?" Ser Raymun Darry's voice dripped scorn. "Oh, they were brigands, beyond a doubt. Lannister brigands."

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XI    Ned heard muttering from beneath the windows and the far end of the hall. Even in the galley, nervous whispers were exchanged. High lords and smallfolk alike knew what it could mean if Ser Marq was proved right. Ser Gregor Clegane stood bannerman to Lord Tywin Lannister.    He studied the frightened faces of the villagers. Small wonder they had been so fearful; they had thought they were being dragged here to name Lord Tywin a red-handed butcher before a king who was his son by marriage. He wondered if the knights had given them a choice.     Grand Maester Pycelle rose ponderously from the council table, his chain of office clinking. "Ser Marq, with respect, you cannot know that this outlaw was Ser Gregor. There are many large men in the realm."

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XI   "If they come again, we'll use their blood to water the fields they burnt," Ser Marq Piper declared hotly.    "Ser Edmure has sent men to every village and holdfast within a day's ride of the border," Ser Karyl explained. "The next raider will not have such an easy time of it."    And that may be precisely what Lord Tywin wants, Ned thought to himself, to bleed off strength from Riverrun, goad the boy into scattering his swords. His wife's brother was young, and more gallant than wise. He would try to hold every inch of his soil, to defend every man, woman, and child who named him lord, and Tywin Lannister was shrewd enough to know that.

Given all that ^ Eddard sends out Beric to do some damage control. You gonna have to look up chapter context on your own.

 A Game of Thrones - Tyrion IX    "As you say, my lord, but … why Harrenhal? That is a grim, unlucky place. Some call it cursed."    "Let them," Lord Tywin said. "Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork."   "They will burn, my lord," Ser Kevan said, rising. "I shall give the commands." He bowed and made for the door.

Chapter context is important. How does the ^ quote mix and mingle with Eddard's XI chapter?

 

 

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