Marvel Cinematic Universe 9: Returning to the Fold

[The Anti-Targ]

On 7/14/2018 at 10:22 AM, williamjm said:

I think you're forgetting Ant-Man who is similar to Iron Man in the sense that he gets his abilities from a high-tech suit (and it's not even his design) rather than superpowers. 

Ant Man is not a superhuman, but he's also not a pure tech hero. He doesn't get his power from the suit per se, he gets his power from the Pym particles which are controlled in the suit, which arguably is more like Hulk's power (from gamma radiation exposure). It's just that he uses the suit to turn the power on and off at will with much greater control and not losing his mind. Ant Man's strength is his own muscle power enhanced by Pym particles. Iron Man's strength and power comes from servo motors, jet engines, and beam emiters in his suit, physically he's still the weak-arsed super-brain at all times.

I guess you have tech based mundane heroes (Iron Man, Black Widow, Hawk-eye(?)), physics (blasted by radiation) based heroes (Hulk, Ant Man, Captain Marvel(Source of power in the MCU TBC?)), super powered heroes (Thor, Dr Strange, Star Lord(?), Groot, Mantis), biologically enhanced super heroes (Black Panther, Spider Man, Captain America). And coming soon to an MCU movie near you genetically mutated heroes a la the X-men (and inHumans?).

And villains all exist in those corresponding categories.

Black Widow can work, I just don't think it would work using the current MCU formula. It would have to be like an indie spin-off, which could be brilliant and potentially the best MCU film ever because it breaks free from the formula. But will they give the movie that kind of freedom. In some ways a Black Widow movie could be to the MCU what Deadpool is to the Fox X-men, only less overtly comedic, and probably still within the PG rating zone, because Disney. It would be way better if Black Widow went the route of Atomic Blonde, but Disney will never do that.

[DMC]

9 hours ago, Maltaran said:

Ant Man and the Wasp is not out in the UK for another month, so no spoilers here please

 

7 hours ago, The EnglishBear said:

I second the no spoilers request. Stupid bloody football, not only does it delay this film, but it didn't even come home!

Sorry bout that, and you're right, there is an entire Ant Man thread to discuss all this in:

 

3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I guess you have tech based mundane heroes (Iron Man, Black Widow, Hawk-eye(?)), physics (blasted by radiation) based heroes (Hulk, Ant Man, Captain Marvel(Source of power in the MCU TBC?)), super powered heroes (Thor, Dr Strange, Star Lord(?), Groot, Mantis), biologically enhanced super heroes (Black Panther, Spider Man, Captain America). And coming soon to an MCU movie near you genetically mutated heroes a la the X-men (and inHumans?).

Hm.  I think (hope?) this rundown demonstrates that the definition that Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson can't carry a movie because she has "muggle" or mundane powers is fatally flawed.  Wow that was a long sentence, sorry.  In spite of the physics of the Ant Man suit, in terms of the MCU canon he goes to me in the same category as Stark and T'Challa.  

Spoiler

Even after the latter swallowed the super-special crystal, or whatever it was.

Thor/Hulk/Strange (as well as Wanda and Vision) is the first tier.  The first is a god, the second can't die, and the third has "magic" as the perfect dues ex machina.  Probably, Captain Marvel belongs in that group - and they are on an entirely different level.  Cap and Spiderman are in the middle for me - right with the aforementioned three guys with suits, but much closer to the muggles. 

And yeah, thanks Family Guy, that is Black Widow's level - put her with Hawkeye, Rhodes, Falcon, and Barnes (the super arm would be easy to mitigate, in reality) - but Johansson has been more important as a character in the MCU than everyone but Downey, Evans, and Hemsworth.  She's familiar and I assume popular with audiences.  

Anyway, all that was to point out the superpowers of a character don't matter - it's the character itself that does.  Iron Man as an idea is stupid and pretty fucking lame, but Downey made it cool.  Johansson can do the same thing if she gets her own vehicle. 

And I know everyone expects it to be a prequel, but I think it'd be fun if it's a sequel.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to make her new leader of SHIELD in the continuity.  

[Myrddin]

Didn't Barnes get a version of the super serum too? He stood toe to toe with Stark in his suit, giving and taking blows.

Agreed that it's the character that matters, not the power level. I originally wanted Emily Blunt as BW, but ScarJo has grown on me.

[Which Tyler]

17 hours ago, Maltaran said:

Ant Man and the Wasp is not out in the UK for another month, so no spoilers here please

In the generic thread, I always favour no spoilers until the DVD release; there's almost always a film-specific thread for open discussion of minutiae like that.

[Myrddin]

2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

In the generic thread, I always favour no spoilers until the DVD release; there's almost always a film-specific thread for open discussion of minutiae like that.

Oh, snap!

Wait... too soon?

[Martini Sigil]

if the Fox deal goes through... upon the reboot/recasting of the entire Marvel cinematic universe.... the biggest box-office movie of all time will be Avengers vs, X-Men...  

[Jace, Extat]

47 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

if the Fox deal goes through... upon the reboot/recasting of the entire Marvel cinematic universe.... the biggest box-office movie of all time will be Avengers vs, X-Men...  

And after Infinity War, I actually think the movie could be fucking incredible.

[Mosi Mynn]

Just have to share this:  Captain America: Donald Trump is 'Putin's puppet'  

I love that a) we're hardly distinguishing Captain America from Chris Evans any more, and b) this is so what Cap would do ... if Cap saw the point of Twitter at all ...

Avengers 4 is going to be hard 

[Jeor]

14 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

And after Infinity War, I actually think the movie could be fucking incredible.

If they get the X-Men rights, two great crossover ideas would be the Age of Apocalypse or the Onslaught saga. I doubt we'll get Onslaught though as it might be too reminiscent of Thanos. But getting a few Age of Apocalypse movies and seeing alternate versions of our heroes would be pretty cool. It would be a massive challenge to pull off though.

[Myrddin]

I would love to see Age of Apocalypse, but man, I can't to imagine how to get the general public to follow such a scramble of characters. It was so crazy and wonderful in the comic, even if a lackluster ending. 

But if they can do a "Logan" type adaptation, that'd rule.

[The Anti-Targ]

49 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

I would love to see Age of Apocalypse, but man, I can't to imagine how to get the general public to follow such a scramble of characters. It was so crazy and wonderful in the comic, even if a lackluster ending. 

But if they can do a "Logan" type adaptation, that'd rule.

It's the one creative problem with Disney owning the X-men. Disney doesn't do R-rated stuff. Disney would need to create a >10-foot pole length autonomous studio to allow movies like Logan and Deadpool to be made.

I would kinda prefer there to be a Comcast deal, and Comcast do a Sony-like deal with Disney for Disney to use X-men characters in the MCU. I don't think it could work like it does with Spider Man though. The MCU would have to cast its own X-men characters and the X-men would have to remain as an entirely independent franchise. Too tricky, I think, to have a whole roster of characters being shared in the same way as Spider Man. 

Though arguably from an anti-competitive standpoint Comcast might be a worse deal. Though it probably wouldn't be such a scary prospect if the USA still had net neutrality.

[dbunting]

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:21 PM, DMC said:

@dbunting

  Hide contents

"The mid credits scene shows Ant Man going back to the quantum realm. There is a line by Pym's wife, can't remember her name, she says something about getting the quantum healing material ...then there is a line about avoiding the time loop???"

To the bolded - I don't recall any line about avoiding a time loop during that scene.  Or any other scene.  I could very well be wrong, and if so what specifically was said??

 

Spoiler

I don't remember the exact line but it was definitely related to time. I am going to the Ant Man thread to see what is there. 

 

[Jeor]

8 hours ago, Myrddin said:

I would love to see Age of Apocalypse, but man, I can't to imagine how to get the general public to follow such a scramble of characters. It was so crazy and wonderful in the comic, even if a lackluster ending. 

But if they can do a "Logan" type adaptation, that'd rule.

Yeah, I doubt they could pull off Age of Apocalypse. To do the storyline proper justice, it would need to be a series of several films and general non-fans might not follow. I was a kid (about 10-12 years old I think?) when I was collecting all those comics and I just remember AoA to be such a massive rush of jaw-dropping excitement, seeing all the characters reimagined and having the whole slate wiped clean. Meanwhile my older brother kept on reassuring me that it was only temporary, and that surely Marvel would just play around for a few months and then return back to the normal series. He was right, of course, but it was still a massive saga to pull off.

[Myrddin]

13 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It's the one creative problem with Disney owning the X-men. Disney doesn't do R-rated stuff. Disney would need to create a >10-foot pole length autonomous studio to allow movies like Logan and Deadpool to be made.

By Logan type adaptation, I was thinking more along the lines of how they took the Old Man Logan source material and reimagined it. The movie didn't need mutant Hulk children or one-armed Hawkeye, etc to service the character and story.

Rated R worked for Logan, is a must for Deadpool, but isn't a required for (fantasy) AoA. 

[Jace, Extat]

I'm going to admit something.

I don't remember everything. 

As your Basilissa I remember MOST things.

One of my most enduring childhood memories is of the X-Men cartoon when a bunch of police confront Magneto before being disarmed and swamped with quicksand.

Disney's #1 play with the intellectual property of the X-Men would be a series for their Netflix competitor that sees James McAvoy et. al. working the same hours as required by a feature film bit diluted among 10 episodes.

Not necessarily a hard R rating, but definitely blurring the lines of PG-13 in spurts.

[The Anti-Targ]

Yep, obviously Disney can arms length things by Netflixing stuff and be a bit more raw with stuff. I mean skinny white girl doing it doggy style with beefy black man doesn't make for a family friendly theme park ride, but they did it by putting it on Netflix and not having a Disney logo anywhere near it. And even then it raised some eyebrows (for the doggy style thing not the interracial thing, I think / hope).

One could even see Disney passing things off to Netflix for the Netflix movie treatment (a la Bright) if there was interest in putting hard PG-13 / soft R content out there. But I don't see popular X-men characters being excluded from cinemas.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah I don't see them doing Age of Apocalypse, that uh, didn't end up so well for Marvel the first time.

[Rhom]

9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Yep, obviously Disney can arms length things by Netflixing stuff and be a bit more raw with stuff. I mean skinny white girl doing it doggy style with beefy black man doesn't make for a family friendly theme park ride, but they did it by putting it on Netflix and not having a Disney logo anywhere near it. And even then it raised some eyebrows (for the doggy style thing not the interracial thing, I think / hope).

One could even see Disney passing things off to Netflix for the Netflix movie treatment (a la Bright) if there was interest in putting hard PG-13 / soft R content out there. But I don't see popular X-men characters being excluded from cinemas.

Sounds like I need to be watching Cloak and Dagger.   

(I’m assuming that’s what you are referencing anyways.  I’ve not yet watched any of the Netflix shows)

[The Anti-Targ]

1 minute ago, Rhom said:

Sounds like I need to be watching Cloak and Dagger.   

(I’m assuming that’s what you are referencing anyways.  I’ve not yet watched any of the Netflix shows)

No. Jessica Jones Season 1.... err spoiler alert I guess.

I assume Cloak and Dagger is pretty much straight PG.

[DMC]

Obviously off-topic, but once Disney gets into streaming it's over.  Time Warner, Comcast, and Viacom will try to match, and I expect the former to go it alone while the latter two combine for some type of Hulu remnant.  Netflix will be eaten within the decade, one way or another.  Amazon will probably merge with one of the three as well..I'll guess Viacom, which is vulnerable.