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On 7/7/2018 at 7:15 PM, Errant Bard said:

Good! The very notion that people could land in prison for simple human decency (i.e. giving food, water, and shelter to the needy) is despicable! 

I can understand the idea of prosecuting people who actually help people to illegally cross a border, but to provide basic necessities to other human beings once inside a country, regardless of their legal status, should never ever be a prosecutable offence!

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12 hours ago, Maithanet der Mannschaft said:

Eight of the boys are out of the cave safely.  It seems very strange to me that they haven't released the names of the boys who are out, even to their families. 

MY understanding isn’t that the parents have seen their children through a glass screen but can’t physically be with them until the lab results come back

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3 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

MY understanding isn’t that the parents have seen their children through a glass screen but can’t physically be with them until the lab results come back

Lab results?

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10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Lab results?

It was the wording on the BBC, which I was watching as I read the forum this morning. But reading up I think that just meant their bloods etc. The bit about seeing their parents through a glass screen only seems accurate though. Guardian reports that they should be able to speak to their parents via telephone later

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Weird. When do they use Elon Musk's dumbass slapped-together metal coffin wonderful new mini-sub that's totally going to be useful and wasn't a publicity stunt at all?

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2 hours ago, La Albearceleste said:

Weird. When do they use Elon Musk's dumbass slapped-together metal coffin wonderful new mini-sub that's totally going to be useful and wasn't a publicity stunt at all?

At the time Elon started work on the sub the water levels were much higher and still rising,  the dive was described as highly dangerous for the kids, in fact a navy diver had died in the cave, and basically no one had a clue how to get them out.

Even today, if any of the boys were incapacitated, they would have been unable to dive out. And the sub would have been needed again.

Thank goodness for people like Musk.

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49 minutes ago, The Mance said:

I saw mention somewhere of signs of pneumonia, low body temps and concern for infection?  

Two boys are suspected of having pneumonia, and in general the kids are at a higher risk of catching something. That, combined with doctors’ fears that their parents might sneak them some food, is why they are being placed in quarantine.

Also, keep in mind, there are still four divers and a doctor in the caves. We’re not out of this yet.

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2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

At the time Elon started work on the sub

he had not bothered to ask anyone involved in the rescue, or anyone else with expertise in cave rescues, what was actually required. This continued to be the case for the entire time he was working on the sub and indeed, after he had finished working on the sub. Which is a shame because none of those people, when asked, thought that a sub of any shape or form would be helpful in any way.

In fact, Musk's idea was generally assessed as increasing the risk because it could get wedged in narrow spaces and trap the divers as well as the kids inside. And since large stretches of the rescue were not underwater at all, the sub would have to be carried for long stretches, with or without the boys inside.

It was a pretty typical Elon Musk idea in that he never bothered to find out what the people who needed the product actually needed.

If Musk wanted to help he could have paid for the rescue. But he did not want to help. He wanted to show off. Fuck Elon Musk.

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15 minutes ago, La Albearceleste said:

he had not bothered to ask anyone involved in the rescue, or anyone else with expertise in cave rescues, what was actually required. This continued to be the case for the entire time he was working on the sub and indeed, after he had finished working on the sub. Which is a shame because none of those people, when asked, thought that a sub of any shape or form would be helpful in any way.

In fact, Musk's idea was generally assessed as increasing the risk because it could get wedged in narrow spaces and trap the divers as well as the kids inside. And since large stretches of the rescue were not underwater at all, the sub would have to be carried for long stretches, with or without the boys inside.

It was a pretty typical Elon Musk idea in that he never bothered to find out what the people who needed the product actually needed.

If Musk wanted to help he could have paid for the rescue. But he did not want to help. He wanted to show off. Fuck Elon Musk.

Well, at least you are able to keep your emotions out of the debate. 

As for the sub, if one of the kids died during the dive attempt, or a bunch were incapacitated, the sub would have been one of the only viable options available, other than waiting out the monsoon season for a few months.

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8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Well, at least you are able to keep your emotions out of the debate. 

I think you overestimate how emotional I am, but in any case it doesn't really matter whether I'm emotional or not, does it? Honestly, when I see this, I just conclude that you felt compelled to criticise my post, but could find no substantial criticisms.

8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As for the sub, if one of the kids died during the dive attempt, or a bunch were incapacitated, the sub would have been one of the only viable options available, other than waiting out the monsoon season for a few months. 

I saw this point the first time. It wasn't very good then either.

We know what would have happened if one of the kids died during the dive attempt, since one of the divers did. No sub required. If several of the kids had been incapacitated, they'd have had bigger problems, and there's zero evidence the sub would have been a viable solution to this.

Finally, and this is the really telling point, you're having to resort to inventing hypotheticals to justify Musk building this submarine (unasked). This does not suggest that Musk was in fact doing a good thing. This suggests you're desperate to justify what Musk did after the fact. It does not address the main point, which is that this was an ego-driven, arrogant attempt to insert himself into the story which didn't start where any genuine attempt to help should have started, which was asking people what he could do.

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