DMC Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Spockydog said: I recall having similar conversations around 2002/2003. Being told I was an idiot and a conspiracy theorist for my insistence that there were no WMD in Iraq. I recall protesting the war during that time period for those reasons. It's not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, DMC said: I recall protesting the war during that time period for those reasons. It's not the same thing. I'm sure the people of Venezuela will take heart from that as US munitions blow their families to bits. And, DMC, there's not much that you've said that I actually disagree with. But you've not said one thing that justifies the threat of US military action in Venezuela. There were plenty of other disputed elections around the world recently. There are plenty of despots currently in charge of countries the US is allied with. So why is it justifiable to attack Venezuela and kill thousands of innocent people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spockydog said: I'm sure the people of Venezuela will take heart from that as US munitions blow their families to bits. When have “US munitions” been used to “blow [Venezuelan] families to bits”? I haven’t seen any reports on NPR or PBS (right wing idealogs that they are) regarding the US funding or arming anti-Maduro insurgents in Venezuala. I have, however, seen a number of stories about how Maduro’s reliance upon Petroleum income has hurt Venezuala and families in Venezuala. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701448955/blackout-in-venezuela-leaves-its-leaders-casting-blame-in-the-dark and https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/08/699341685/the-left-behind-kids-of-venezuela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: When have “US munitions” been used to “blow [Venezuelan] families to bits”? I haven’t seen any reports on NPR or PBS (right wing idealogs that they are) regarding the US funding or arming anti-Maduro insurgents in Venezuala. Scot, don't be a bellend. The war hasn't started yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Scot, don't be a bellend. The war hasn't started yet. Is the opposition in Venezuala wrong to take up arms against Maduro if it comes to blows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I have, however, seen a number of stories about how Maduro’s reliance upon Petroleum income has hurt Venezuala and families in Venezuala. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/08/701448955/blackout-in-venezuela-leaves-its-leaders-casting-blame-in-the-dark and https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/08/699341685/the-left-behind-kids-of-venezuela Yup, this is the intended effect of US sanctions. Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Is the opposition in Venezuala wrong to take up arms against Maduro if it comes to blows? I'm more concerned by the potential deaths of thousands of non-combatants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Spockydog said: I'm sure the people of Venezuela will take heart from that as US munitions blow their families to bits. Are you saying the US sold the munitions to Maduro or the opposition? In that case, yeah probably both. Not gonna argue there. But I didn't think I needed to clarify that I'm opposed to any military action regarding Venezuela. And bringing up Dubya's Iraq, I'm unequivocally opposed to that level of military action anywhere unless there is verifiable genocide going on (or, I suppose, if the US was attacked obviously). 16 minutes ago, Spockydog said: But you've not said one thing that justifies the US threat of military action in Venezuela. Because I don't agree with it! Trump threatens military action, it's part of his schtick. Doesn't mean the DoD will let him do it. 18 minutes ago, Spockydog said: There are plenty of despots currently in charge of countries the US is allied with. So the main crux of your argument simply doesn't stand up. I've already explained why Venezuela is fundamentally different in terms of US interests, and you responded "OIL!" If you'd like to have an actual discussion about that I'd be happy to. 20 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Why is it justifiable to attack Venezuela and kill thousands of innocent people? Uh, it's not. 2 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Yup, this is precisely the intended effect of US sanctions. Thanks for that. By the links you've provided in this thread, the Venezuelan economy started floundering long before any US sanctions. Did those sanctions exacerbate it, yes, so again to clarify I'm opposed to EO 13808. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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