Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: The election of Maduro is more than “flawed”. It was designed to ensure his re-election after gutting existing democratic institutions. Hmm. Sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: As for the Chavez bird “really” talking to Maduro... I find that unlikely. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Hmm. Sound familiar? Strawman. Have you ever seen me defend Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Strawman. Have you ever seen me defend Trump? No. But I'm still quite interested in why you think it unlikely that Maduro was ever visited by the spirit of Chavez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 53 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: there is a Happy medium where the US is interfering because Maduro is a crazyman. Are you suggesting the US would be interested in Venezuela because it has the best interests of the Venezuelan people at heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Scot, some things to consider... Has the CIA ever toppled the legitimate leader of a foreign nation? Has the CIA ever assassinated anyone? Is there a chance the CIA assassinated Chavez? Are the CIA currently operating in Venezuela? With the CIA in country, actively trying to fuck things up, will this make the country a better or worse place to live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spockydog said: No. But I'm still quite interested in why you think it unlikely that Maduro was ever visited by the spirit of Chavez? Because I don’t believe it is genuine. I believe it is a tactical move to play on his people’s faith and residual admiration of Chavez. Hence, I said I would give it as much weight as a similar claim from Trump or any other Politican. I see nothing surrounding the event to give it the weight of a genuine experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rippounet said: Are you suggesting the US would be interested in Venezuela because it has the best interests of the Venezuelan people at heart? No. I’m saying refusing to support Maduro is the right thing to do regardless of US geopolitical reasons for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: No. I’m saying refusing to support Maduro is the right thing to do regardless of US geopolitical reasons for doing so. The country needs to have proper elections. Not some US puppet standing up and saying, 'I'm the leader!' That's not how democracy works. Americans telling the world to recognise Guaido as Venezuelan president is just another slice of good old American hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Scot, some things to consider... Has the CIA ever toppled the legitimate leader of a foreign nation? Has the CIA ever assassinated anyone? Is there a chance the CIA assassinated Chavez? Are the CIA currently operating in Venezuela? With the CIA in country, actively trying to fuck things up, will this make the country a better or worse place to live? Yes. Yes. I don’t know, calls for speculation. I don’t know, calls for speculation. Again, calls for speculation, but I will concede it wouldn’t make things better. My questions. Do you believe Maduro is a good leader? Do you believe Maduro believes in democracy? Have Maduro’s actions demonstrated that he places the happiness of his people above his own power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Spockydog said: The country needs to have proper elections. Not some US puppet standing up and saying, 'I'm the leader!' That's not how democracy works. Americans telling the world to recognise Guaido as Venezuelan president is just another slice of good old American hypocrisy. Agreed. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Yes. Yes. I don’t know, calls for speculation. I don’t know, calls for speculation. Again, calls for speculation, but I will concede it wouldn’t make things better. My questions. Do you believe Maduro is a good leader? Do you believe Maduro believes in democracy? Have Maduro’s actions demonstrated that he places the happiness of his people above his own power? Okay, so you're now wilfully ignoring the fact that Mike Pompeo said, two years ago, that the CIA was actively working with two countries in the region to facilitate regime change in Venezuela. And I've already said I don't think Maduro is a good leader. But that does not excuse the US, and everyone else's, desire for an illegal regime change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Spockydog said: Okay, so you're now wilfully ignoring the fact that Mike Pompeo said, two years ago, that the CIA was actively working with two countries in the region to facilitate regime change in Venezuela. And I've already said I don't think Maduro is a good leader. But that does not excuse the US, and everyone else's, desire for an illegal regime change. I don’t support CIA dirty tricks. I do support sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I don’t support CIA dirty tricks. I do support sanctions. Good. So spare me the handwringing over the state of a country that your country has been actively trying to fuck up for years. You support sanctions, do you? Who do you think sanctions hurt? Maduro? His wealthy mates? For a man claiming to be so concerned with the welfare of ordinary Venezuelan citizens this is absurd. Get the fuck out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I don’t support CIA dirty tricks. ...I just pretend they don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Spockydog said: ...I just pretend they don't exist. I know they exist. That said they are not the only reason for Maduro’s problems or his failure as a leader. You said above you believe they are the only reason for Venezuala’s difficulties. The low price of oil has no impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: The low price of oil has no impact? Ha ha ha ha ha ha! The ignorance on display here is staggering. Do some fucking reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I don’t support CIA dirty tricks. I do support sanctions. To venezuela. There are a lot of peopple who support sanction agains venezuela who never speak about sanction to other countrys who deserve it so much more. Like saudi arabia or the USA. And you know, some of the consequenses of those sanctions are hunger and medecine shortages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: To venezuela. There are a lot of peopple who support sanction agains venezuela who never speak about sanction to other countrys who deserve it so much more. Like saudi arabia or the USA. And you know, some of the consequenses of those sanctions are hunger and medecine shortages. I would absolutely support sanctions against Saudi. That said your point is “the Fallacy of Relative Privation”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I would absolutely support sanctions against Saudi. That said your point is “the Fallacy of Relative Privation”. I frankly don't see how anyone who claims to be a Christian can support economic sanctions. Do you know how many Iraqis died because of US sanctions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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