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U. S Politics: I know why the caged babe screams.


LongRider

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1 minute ago, SweetPea said:

This has always been an interesting dichotomy of the (progressive) left. They tend to think that the US is a white supremacist country, with a corrupt republican party, an unfair, oppressive justice system and trigger happy cops. Many of those same people also think it's a good idea for people to give up their guns. I don't know how they reconcile the two.

By being capable of basic logic.

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11 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

This has always been an interesting dichotomy of the (progressive) left. 

I have my popcorn -- ready to go:

11 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

They tend to think that the US is a white supremacist country, 

It historically has been and there has been not been sufficient reconciliation or reparation to address this - especially at the institutional level.

11 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

with a corrupt republican party

Yes. Both parties are -- but it's like when you have to pick the healthy option between a steaming pile of fat and shit or a cobb salad. The difference is clear even if that cobb salad is not going to do you any favors.

11 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

oppressive justice system

Yup. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/13/8913297/mass-incarceration-maps-charts

11 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

trigger happy cops. 

Yup.

11 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Many of those same people also think it's a good idea for people to give up their guns. I don't know how they reconcile the two.

...and we get to the illogical conclusion. There is no support for personal gun ownership as a salve to any of the above problems that you've identified. Your assumption is, somehow, the left should want to have guns as a bulwark against white supremacist institutions, corrupt politicians, oppressive/regressive justice system, trigger happy cops, etc. ... 

The two changes that personal gun ownership can make is 1) an increase in perceived safety 2) higher likelihood of dying due to gun violence. Why would any rational individual expect either of those two outcomes to address the problems that you delineated?

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4 minutes ago, Week said:

The two changes that personal gun ownership can make is 1) an increase in perceived safety 2) higher likelihood of dying due to gun violence. Why would any rational individual expect either of those two outcomes to address the problems that you delineated?

Tell that to every person who has succesfully used a gun in self-defense.

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3 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Tell that to every person who has succesfully used a gun in self-defense.

Pales in comparison to those who have been injured or killed not in self-defense.  There were more deaths last year by toddlers with guns than by terrorism in the US.  So yeah, it's definitely perception more than reality.  

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4 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Tell that to every person who has succesfully used a gun in self-defense.

Do you think this makes what you said make any more sense or refute the point that I made? It does not -- even if it were a valuable point to make.

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23 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

This has always been an interesting dichotomy of the (progressive) left. They tend to think that the US is a white supremacist country, with a corrupt republican party, an unfair, oppressive justice system and trigger happy cops. Many of those same people also think it's a good idea for people to give up their guns. I don't know how they reconcile the two.

So you think we should be shooting republicans, judges, and cops? I'm not entirely sure that would be a good idea. And if not, what's the point of us having guns?

But it's actually mostly people who don't have guns and don't want guns themselves who want the guns to be taken away from the white supremacists etc. If you find that difficult to reconcile, then you've got problems.

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27 minutes ago, felice said:

So you think we should be shooting republicans, judges, and cops? I'm not entirely sure that would be a good idea. And if not, what's the point of us having guns?

But it's actually mostly people who don't have guns and don't want guns themselves who want the guns to be taken away from the white supremacists etc. If you find that difficult to reconcile, then you've got problems.

That's part of my point. Many progressives have a worldview where white supremacists rule the country, Trump is about to end democracy, minorities are under oppression, and it's only a matter of time before the killing begins. In this scenario, doesn't it feel unjust that they'd want to take away the right to own guns from minorities and those that are under the biggest threat? 

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3 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

That's part of my point. Many progressives have a worldview where white supremacists rule the country, Trump is about to end democracy, minorities are under oppression, and it's only a matter of time before the killing begins. In this scenario, doesn't it feel unjust that they'd want to take away the right to own guns from minorities and those that are under the biggest threat? 

You really are quite confused.

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1 hour ago, SweetPea said:

Tell that to every person who has succesfully used a gun in self-defense.

That's the thing when it comes to crafting policy. You don't rely on anecdotes.

Especially when the data on this is extremely clear:

Quote

Most of this research—and there have been several dozen peer-reviewed studies—punctures the idea that guns stop violence. In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.

 

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5 minutes ago, Suttree said:

That's the thing when it comes to crafting policy. You don't rely on anecdotes.

Especially when the data on this is extremely clear:

 

All of this is expected. I don't own any guns, precisely because I live in a safe area where I don't need them. I can leave my car unlocked by the side of the road for days without having to worry about thiefs.

This doesn't mean guns are not an effective self-defense tool. It just means people are more likely to buy guns in areas with high crime rates.

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51 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

That's part of my point. Many progressives have a worldview where white supremacists rule the country, Trump is about to end democracy, minorities are under oppression, and it's only a matter of time before the killing begins. In this scenario, doesn't it feel unjust that they'd want to take away the right to own guns from minorities and those that are under the biggest threat? 

It shows that progressives are unwilling to resort to violence to solve political issues, even when they believe the stakes are high.

The only thing you're saying here is that if the tables were turned you would see it as "just" if some conservative groups used guns to resist the government on some issues. Which says a lot more about you and your willingness to condone violence than it does about "progressives."

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18 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

For those here whining about the collapse of the left - ordinary citizens are now really aggressively confronting conservative politicians everywhere.  If this gets ramped up a few notches, how many boarders here will participate?  And is there any chance the conservative politicians in question will grasp just how loathed many of their policies are?

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/where-are-the-babies-mitch-mcconnell-pursued-from-restaurant-by-angry-crowd/ar-AAzLjm7?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580

 

“It’s making everyone very nervous, because if you can’t agree on health multilateralism, what kind of multilateralism can you agree on?' Ms. Kickbusch asked."

---

It's bizarre how often I've been morbidly amused whenever anyone expresses surprise at how low they'll go.

Welcome to life as a limbo contest.

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1 hour ago, SweetPea said:

That's part of my point. Many progressives have a worldview where white supremacists rule the country, Trump is about to end democracy, minorities are under oppression, and it's only a matter of time before the killing begins. In this scenario, doesn't it feel unjust that they'd want to take away the right to own guns from minorities and those that are under the biggest threat? 

What good does guns do against airplanes, armored vehicles, missiles, and Nuclear Weapons?

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8 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

It shows that progressives are unwilling to resort to violence to solve political issues, even when they believe the stakes are high.

Yeah, no. Progressives are more than willing to resort to violence and you know it.

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3 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Yeah, no. Progressives are more than willing to resort to violence and you know it.

Well sure. Why else would the Regressives want their guns?

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16 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Yeah, no. Progressives are more than willing to resort to violence and you know it.

I assume you refer to lynching - the extrajudicial violence that had been ongoing for decades on the Left, Right?

Or Heather Heyer? Or South Carolina? Or any number of incidents that anecdotally and statistically, in aggregate, uncover the puddle of intellectual depth that you've found refuge in.

Guns = Good

Left = Worse

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35 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

It shows that progressives are unwilling to resort to violence to solve political issues, even when they believe the stakes are high.

The only thing you're saying here is that if the tables were turned you would see it as "just" if some conservative groups used guns to resist the government on some issues. Which says a lot more about you and your willingness to condone violence than it does about "progressives."

Liberals here in the US are utterly fucking worthless and will get people killed with their peace at all costs self righteous bullshit. 

Hey my neighbor is being shipped off to an extermination camp! Have to be peaceful at all costs! Even if it means more people will die because a fascist government doesnt see an actual threat to their power!

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