lhermite Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 When She tells Davos' Son that Death by fire is the purest, made me realize that she knew what would happen at Blackwater Is it possible that it was her decision not to tell Stannis about this and knowingly send them to their deaths? Because of their plans, or as an offering, because this would lead them to the north or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dragon Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, lhermite said: When She tells Davos' Son that Death by fire is the purest, made me realize that she knew what would happen at Blackwater Is it possible that it was her decision not to tell Stannis about this and knowingly send them to their deaths? Because of their plans, or as an offering, because this would lead them to the north or whatever. Davos read the letter and convinced Stannis to go north. Not Melisandre. From what I can tell of Melisandre she is just misreading all of the flames she sees and is confused like she says and she takes credit for other things that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhermite Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 Yeah, what I meant with the north part is that Stannis failing at Blackwater served to end up in the north, if he taked king's landing he surely would have been stuck for some years or even killed. Assuming that R'hllor indeed has the power to manipulate all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dragon Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, lhermite said: Yeah, what I meant with the north part is that Stannis failing at Blackwater served to end up in the north, if he taked king's landing he surely would have been stuck for some years or even killed. Assuming that R'hllor indeed has the power to manipulate all of this. I think I understand now. It seems to me that Stannis going north had more to do with Davos putting in an effort to learn some new information (like reading) and the way he strategizes with ships (like also getting Edric out of Melisandre's grasp) that more credit goes to Davos for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Hi guys, going into the Davos thing, I believe it was his intention to keep Mel and her tricks well away from the Battle of Blackwater. Don't quote me, but in ASOS Mel was telling Davos that if she had gone with them towards King's Landing, instead of staying on Dragonstone, the battle would be won and his sons would still be alive. That's probably malarkey, but according to her, it would have been Davos fault for Stannis' loss whether he willed it or not, leading to him deciding to convince Stannis to go North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Mel has visions, and they happen. She can't read them properly but that's another case. Visions happen regardless of her actions; she saw Renly in his green armor defeating Stannis beneath KL, so she killed Renly. Guess what happened next? Garlan disguised as Renly defeated Stannis. Same goes for Jojen's WF dream. This makes me believe prophecy is not a warning in ASOIAF, it is simply a glimpse into the future inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 10 hours ago, lhermite said: When She tells Davos' Son that Death by fire is the purest, made me realize that she knew what would happen at Blackwater I interpret this as her being a fanatic or a clumsy attempt at being "comforting" even though R'hllor means nothing to Davos. I don't think she knew about the Blackwater, but Patchface sure did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said: I don't think she knew about the Blackwater, but Patchface sure did. I'd like a quote on that. Patchface seems to have a lot of prophecies that only become clear after the event so it's quite easy to miss his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: I'd like a quote on that. Patchface seems to have a lot of prophecies that only become clear after the event so it's quite easy to miss his stuff. "Under the sea smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black." (Davos I, Clash 10) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said: "Under the sea smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black." (Davos I, Clash 10) Patchface was behind the death of the Baratheon brothers parents it is known........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Can you tell me where you find Melisandre talking to Davos' son about fire being the purest death? I find a show thread that discusses this, and they say the line occurs in the show but not in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makk Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I don't think she saw it. She does believe in her cause and she didn't plan at that stage to end up on the wall. She did see Garlan aka Rennlys ghost, defeating Stannis though, so it is possible that she saw some things but believed they had been averted. I feel she has virtually no control over what she sees and will often misinterpret it. An interesting question is whether all the ships sent to hardhome are really lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Never mind. wrong reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I think Melisandre definitely knew Davos' son would die by fire, but had no idea what the context would be. She consistently only gets part of the story right from her visions in the flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhermite Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Seams said: Can you tell me where you find Melisandre talking to Davos' son about fire being the purest death? I find a show thread that discusses this, and they say the line occurs in the show but not in the books. Indeed it appears in Season 2 which is my only source, I assumed it was taken from the novels. But was the reason to come and ask actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Oh, o.k. I think your larger question is a good one: whether Melisandre foresaw the destruction of the fleet and let it happen without trying to prevent it. There is a pretty strong rule in this forum about keeping book discussion separate from show discussions, though. The category called "General (ASOIAF)" in which you posted your query, is the book discussion. In this case, the reference to a line from the show was mostly just confusing but the rule is intended to prevent spoilers from the show creeping into the book discussions. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhermite Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 49 minutes ago, Seams said: Oh, o.k. I think your larger question is a good one: whether Melisandre foresaw the destruction of the fleet and let it happen without trying to prevent it. There is a pretty strong rule in this forum about keeping book discussion separate from show discussions, though. The category called "General (ASOIAF)" in which you posted your query, is the book discussion. In this case, the reference to a line from the show was mostly just confusing but the rule is intended to prevent spoilers from the show creeping into the book discussions. Cheers. You're totally right. I wanted the book's version of this answer but I shouldn't have brought up something that doesn't appear in books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Widow's Watch said: "Under the sea smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black." (Davos I, Clash 10) Thanks. I never associated this with BW since green flames are there but not blue and black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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