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What will the armies of the Vale do in the books?


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In the books, what can we expect the armies of the Vale to do first? 

If I'm Bronze Yohn or Harry The Heir, I'm assuming Littlefinger doesn't make it out of this tournament debacle alive, the first thing I'm doing is marching through the bloody gate and launching an all out assault on The Twins. Fuck house Frey. I'd come at them with trebuchets and blast their shit into ruins. I'm talking scorched fucking earth. Wipe out every member of their family and put Walder Frey's head on a spike. Then I'm rallying the remaining riverlords and marching north through the the Neck with haste. 

Maybe set sail out of Gulltown and go North first and save the Freys for last? 

What's the timeline with Stannis and the Battle on the Ice and his march on Winterfell, relative to the Vale Plot-line?

Any thoughts?

 
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and even politically, why would the Vale attack the Freys or anyone else at this point?  Yes, some wanted to partake in the war when Lysa did nothing but why aid the non-existant in their mind Starks, to whom they serve no homage in any event, or anyone else?

 

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I'm gonna talk about season 6's Battle of the Bastards. They had the Vale knights gloriously save the day at Jon Snow's hour of peril. It was a pretty kick ass fight, but it did not feel like a proper Game of Thrones battle. No battle is ever that romantic in Martin's work. I don't see the Vale knights doing anything like that, especially with Littlefinger calling the shots. There ideas of retaking Sansa's homeland will probably be invading the lands of those lords supporting either Roose or Stannis, taking advantage of almost all of their fighting men being out to war, and razing them.

As far as all of Westeros is concerned, Wyman Manderly is believed to be a Bolton loyalist. If LF can get the sistermen on his side, they can go back to their pirating ways and sack White Harbor. Best tactical area to capture. From there, they can make their way towards the dreadfort or Karhold. 

I made a comment about Sansa becoming the new Dany. witnessing the horrors of these places getting razed could be the catalyst that drives her away from LF, like when Dany witnesses the Dothraki's deeds. 

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1 hour ago, Mooncalf said:

I'm gonna talk about season 6's Battle of the Bastards. They had the Vale knights gloriously save the day at Jon Snow's hour of peril. It was a pretty kick ass fight, but it did not feel like a proper Game of Thrones battle. No battle is ever that romantic in Martin's work. I don't see the Vale knights doing anything like that, especially with Littlefinger calling the shots. There ideas of retaking Sansa's homeland will probably be invading the lands of those lords supporting either Roose or Stannis, taking advantage of almost all of their fighting men being out to war, and razing them.

As far as all of Westeros is concerned, Wyman Manderly is believed to be a Bolton loyalist. If LF can get the sistermen on his side, they can go back to their pirating ways and sack White Harbor. Best tactical area to capture. From there, they can make their way towards the dreadfort or Karhold. 

I made a comment about Sansa becoming the new Dany. witnessing the horrors of these places getting razed could be the catalyst that drives her away from LF, like when Dany witnesses the Dothraki's deeds. 

The biggest problem I've had with the shows latest seasons is their complete abandonment of realism, timelines, and logistics.  The simple fact is no army is going to go to the north during the winter time, unless/until they are made to realize that their own fate depends on it because of the WW's.

I think these timeline issues and foreshadowing of events that are now simply unrealistic are the big problems George ran into when trying to write TWOW.  It does seem to have been foreshadowed that Sansa will go back to WF, and maybe she will, and maybe she will even lead the Vale there, but it won't be to rescue Jon or defeat the Boltons.

If the Vale army is going to do anything it will be in the Riverlands.  They can quickly sale from White Harbor to Maidenpoole and from there while the Lannisters/Tyrells/Aegon/Dorne/Ironborn are all distracted in the south they could easily liberate the Riverlands and provide the food the people need.  If Edmure dies in the prologue Sansa becomes Lady of Riverrun and Harrenhall by her lineage.  Yes I know Edmure signed a document and the "crown" gave Harrenhall to LF, but I doubt many people in the Riverlands would support either of those claims.  With Bran and Rickon "dead" Sansa is Edmures heir, and through Edmure and Catlyns mother that includes Harrenhall.

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I think they will head North at Sansa's request, in response to a call for help from the Wall. after the Others invade.

Riverlands is possible, but Sansa has no real interest in the Riverlands, and there is considerable foreshadowing that her future story is in the North.

I don't think anyone in the Vale cares enough about the Freys to send in the armies after them.  In any event, I expect that once Lord Walder dies the Freys will do a pretty good job of killing one another.

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23 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

What reason would the Vale have to do this?

Also the mountains are snowed in, there is no marching the Vale anywhere, they need to sail.

Sansa. The North remembers as do their allies. If you have any honor, which the Vale certainly does, you don't turn a blind eye on the Red Wedding and you certainly don't let Winterfell stay in the hands of the Bolton's. When Sansa Stark becomes Sansa Arryn, which she's destined to do, I'd think she'd want to get revenge on the people who murdered her mother and brother. If I'm the lord of any house in the Vale, at this point I'd call my banners in a heartbeat to spill Lannister or Frey blood. The Westerlands are weak, the Reach is under attack, and the Iron Throne is in disarray. It's Winter now and the Valeman have the advantage. 

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23 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

and even politically, why would the Vale attack the Freys or anyone else at this point?  Yes, some wanted to partake in the war when Lysa did nothing but why aid the non-existant in their mind Starks, to whom they serve no homage in any event, or anyone else?

 

Whether or not Harry lives, I do see Sansa birthing his child and taking the Arryn name. I think when your liege lord's wife is a Stark, you do owe homage. That shits personal to her and Valemen are steeped in honor, honor that serves justice. Who else is going to take out the Frey's?

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9 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

 

If the Vale army is going to do anything it will be in the Riverlands.  They can quickly sale from White Harbor to Maidenpoole and from there while the Lannisters/Tyrells/Aegon/Dorne/Ironborn are all distracted in the south they could easily liberate the Riverlands and provide the food the people need.  If Edmure dies in the prologue Sansa becomes Lady of Riverrun and Harrenhall by her lineage.  Yes I know Edmure signed a document and the "crown" gave Harrenhall to LF, but I doubt many people in the Riverlands would support either of those claims.  With Bran and Rickon "dead" Sansa is Edmures heir, and through Edmure and Catlyns mother that includes Harrenhall.

That sounds like a cool idea. my only problem is the Vale liberating the riverlands and helping them survive the winter. That would be a great thing for the Vale to do, but they have littlefinger ruling them, and I don't see him doing anything decent for humanity. They'd have to get rid of him first, and i don't know if that'll happen. 

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13 hours ago, Mooncalf said:

That sounds like a cool idea. my only problem is the Vale liberating the riverlands and helping them survive the winter. That would be a great thing for the Vale to do, but they have littlefinger ruling them, and I don't see him doing anything decent for humanity. They'd have to get rid of him first, and i don't know if that'll happen.  

It will happen but not until A Dream of Spring.

At which point, the Riverlands will be ____ed.

14 hours ago, Ser Dips A lot said:

Whether or not Harry lives, I do see Sansa birthing his child and taking the Arryn name. I think when your liege lord's wife is a Stark, you do owe homage. That shits personal to her and Valemen are steeped in honor, honor that serves justice. Who else is going to take out the Frey's? 

I actually don't see Sansa giving to birth to any children. But I do see her taking the Arryn name while holding true to her Stark heritage.

After Harry, wouldn't Sansa be the legal heir to the Eyrie and the Vale?

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2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

It will happen but not until A Dream of Spring.

At which point, the Riverlands will be ____ed.

I actually don't see Sansa giving to birth to any children. But I do see her taking the Arryn name while holding true to her Stark heritage.

After Harry, wouldn't Sansa be the legal heir to the Eyrie and the Vale?

Sansa has no claim on the Vale whatsoever.  Lysa had no claim, she was only ruling as Roberts guardian.  Her claims are to WF, Riverrun, and Harrenhall.  There is no clear ruler after Harry though I believe people are jumping the gun on Robert dying.  If Robert dies LF looses all of his power, as his power is the same as Lysa's, being Roberts guardian.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If they get to keep their teleporting horses from the show, anything is possible. Maybe they'll decide to attack Norvos. Maybe lifting a siege of Oldtown. Or discovering new lands in Sothoryos.

Seriously, the charge of the knights of the Vale might have been the final straw for my opinion on the show's writers. (Character 1) appearing on the morning of the battle outside Winterfell, telling (Character 2) that "The knights of the Vale are camped at Moat Cailin". That's like turning up for a siege in Madrid and saying you have a backup army ready to strike ...and they're currently deployed just outside Paris. Or New York - Atlanta if you want an example from the US. Not as bad as the infamous day trip from beyond the Wall to Dragonstone and back from the next season, but it was the defining moment to signal that the writers didn't give two squats about distances anymore.

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I do agree that the scheming days of LF are getting close to an end. Not necessarily death perhaps, but I imagine circumstances at the tourney will align themselves in such a way where Sansa has the opportunity to seize power. Much like Littlefinger himself has been operating so far - utilising chaos and seizing opportunities.
I also think she won't marry Harry the Heir, she will secure her alliance through Sweetrobin, who trusts her and who she knows she can manipulate.

From there Sansa's goal will likely be to go back home, with an army.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/18/2018 at 6:06 PM, Kyll.Ing. said:

If they get to keep their teleporting horses from the show, anything is possible. Maybe they'll decide to attack Norvos. Maybe lifting a siege of Oldtown. Or discovering new lands in Sothoryos.

Seriously, the charge of the knights of the Vale might have been the final straw for my opinion on the show's writers. (Character 1) appearing on the morning of the battle outside Winterfell, telling (Character 2) that "The knights of the Vale are camped at Moat Cailin". That's like turning up for a siege in Madrid and saying you have a backup army ready to strike ...and they're currently deployed just outside Paris. Or New York - Atlanta if you want an example from the US. Not as bad as the infamous day trip from beyond the Wall to Dragonstone and back from the next season, but it was the defining moment to signal that the writers didn't give two squats about distances anymore.

Well said lol. Glad I'm not the only person who thinks that season was asinine.

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On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 8:40 PM, Ser Dips A lot said:

Whether or not Harry lives, I do see Sansa birthing his child and taking the Arryn name. I think when your liege lord's wife is a Stark, you do owe homage. That shits personal to her and Valemen are steeped in honor, honor that serves justice. Who else is going to take out the Frey's? 

I think the Freys are going to take themselves out...with a little help from Arya

...and maybe the Brotherhood without Banners.

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:47 AM, LordImp said:

I wonder when Sansa will " take care off" Littlefinger? Will he meet his end in the Vale or perhaps in the North? 

I think it will be in Winterfell.

Littlefinger has probably done the most damage to the Stark family out of everyone in this series. Even more than Theon, the Lannisters and the Boltons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Littlefinger selling the Hardyng marriage to Sansa is simply that. Selling the idea to her, to get her to go along with his plans. It doesn't mean that it will happen or even that LF is serious about it. Even if it played out like that, they would mean eventually, not in the middle of fucking northern winter. There must be a few among them with couple of functioning brain cells. 

My view is that LF doesn't give two fucks about the North. What he wants is some pretext and legality of keeping Harry a virtual hostage so that he can profiteer on food, in peace.

The most likely occupation of the Knights of the Vale in the foreseeable future would be to fight the mountain clans and/or each other. 

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