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NBA Free Agency 2018: Independence day, unless you're in San Antonio


Red Tiger

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3 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

And his shitty attitude.

You know though, I think Denver will be a great fit for him and give him a chance to earn that contract he was after. He can be himself on that team, and an extra year for the hip might do some good. I like IT and wish him the best, and knew for a fact he'd never co-exist with LeBron, too ball dominat.

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Butler turns down what appears to be a low ball offer. This is such a bad look for the Wolves. They offer Wiggins a 5 year, $148m deal while only offering the much, much better Butler 4 year, S110 deal. I love this team, but Taylor needs to sell it. He’s so f’ing cheap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24089384/jimmy-butler-turns-extension-offer-minnesota-timberwolves

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15 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Butler turns down what appears to be a low ball offer. This is such a bad look for the Wolves. They offer Wiggins a 5 year, $148m deal while only offering the much, much better Butler 4 year, S110 deal. I love this team, but Taylor needs to sell it. He’s so f’ing cheap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24089384/jimmy-butler-turns-extension-offer-minnesota-timberwolves

That makes no sense whatsoever. Butler.is established and a way  all-around ball player than Wiggins. What others is said about Wiggins is spot on, high volume guy, but not close to a superstar. Butler is a top 15-20 player easily.

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40 minutes ago, Esmenet said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. Butler.is established and a way  all-around ball player than Wiggins. What others is said about Wiggins is spot on, high volume guy, but not close to a superstar. Butler is a top 15-20 player easily.

By my own rankings he's the tenth best in the NBA, but spots 8-12, and really 8-15, are quite subjective.

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. AD

4. Kawhi 

5. Curry

6. Harden

7. Westbrook

8. Lillard

9. Giannis

10. Butler

11. Embiid

12. Kat

13. Kyrie

14. Thompson

15. PG

 

And really, there's like 5-10 guys you could swap with any of the guys after KAT. 

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1 hour ago, Esmenet said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. Butler.is established and a way  all-around ball player than Wiggins. What others is said about Wiggins is spot on, high volume guy, but not close to a superstar. Butler is a top 15-20 player easily.

Any time you can give a max contract to a guy who isn't even good at basketball and then lowball one of the fifteen or twenty best players in the league, you gotta do it.

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7 hours ago, sperry said:

The Butler thing is insane. What are they doing? I'd expect Towns to force his way out after this one.

Tough for a guy on a rookie deal to force his way out.  Only real way to do it is take the qualifying offer, but if he does that he costs himself the five year max the Wolves can give him.  I guarantee you he signs that five year max and then forces his way out after year three or so.  I don't think there's been a single rookie contract guy since they changed the supermax rules that's passed on it if it was offered.  You'd be a fool not to, even in a shit situation.

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Jabari Parker agreed to a 2 year, 40 million deal with the Bulls.

I don't like the fact that they're paying a player that has had two acl injuries 20 million a year, but at least the 2nd year is a team option, so he'll have the 1st year to prove himself.

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Good move for the Bulls I think, in their position they have to snatch up young talent and try to make a new team. I've always been surprised by how easily that team was blown up, Rose fell apart and then Noah and Butler were traded, Mirotic gone, Taj Gibson suddenly irrleevant, nothing left. It seemed to me to end prematurely.

So now they've probably overpaid LaVine, a 12th pick with potential. He really needs to prove himself in order for this Bulls team to make steps.

Parker did not get such a mega deal but him and LaVine both need to show they can stay healthy and if they can, intriguing.

In other news, still no news about Kahwi, what on Earth is going on?

Read an interview with Magic Johnson today in which he states he is perfectly happy with this team and all eyes are on the 2019 market.

They are basically ok with being non-competitive for the title this year, they'll see how it goes.

Which all rhymes with the stories about how little they have offered the Spurs. Would they have even offered the Spurs one or two of their youngsters?

I would get rid of Ball if I could.

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Love love love that Channing Frye signing from the Cavs.  One of the big problems during their last rebuild (aside from botching several draft picks) was that they really lacked any mature adults in the locker room, and thus got sucked into a culture of losing and negativity.  You need guys like Frye in a young locker room to give the kids some perspective and to keep guys from developing losing habits.  

It also gives them a bit more rope to trade Love, as they'll still have a veteran floor spacer who has a good attitude and doesn't cause drama.

Now I just hope they bring back Jefferson so Road Trippin' can make it's spectacular return!

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4 hours ago, briantw said:

Tough for a guy on a rookie deal to force his way out.  Only real way to do it is take the qualifying offer, but if he does that he costs himself the five year max the Wolves can give him.  I guarantee you he signs that five year max and then forces his way out after year three or so.  I don't think there's been a single rookie contract guy since they changed the supermax rules that's passed on it if it was offered.  You'd be a fool not to, even in a shit situation.

Yeah, you are probably right about the money being too much to walk away from.

 

I just can't wrap my mind around the Jimmy Butler lowball. The guy is only 28. It's not like he's a guy who you would expect to be declining at the end of the deal, he should still be a star by then.

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1 hour ago, sperry said:

Yeah, you are probably right about the money being too much to walk away from.

 

I just can't wrap my mind around the Jimmy Butler lowball. The guy is only 28. It's not like he's a guy who you would expect to be declining at the end of the deal, he should still be a star by then.

Keeping Wiggins over Butler is the type of decision that will haunt a franchise for years.  Even in the most optimistic Wiggins projections I can't see him ever becoming as good as Butler has been.

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On 7/13/2018 at 5:08 PM, chiKanery et al. said:

By my own rankings he's the tenth best in the NBA, but spots 8-12, and really 8-15, are quite subjective.

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. AD

4. Kawhi 

5. Curry

6. Harden

7. Westbrook

8. Lillard

9. Giannis

10. Butler

11. Embiid

12. Kat

13. Kyrie

14. Thompson

15. PG

 

And really, there's like 5-10 guys you could swap with any of the guys after KAT. 

Lol @ Lillard > Giannis. Come on now. 

I mean, Westbrook kinda too, but Lillard especially. 

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1 hour ago, IamMe90 said:

Lol @ Lillard > Giannis. Come on now. 

I mean, Westbrook kinda too, but Lillard especially. 

Homer much? :P

I’m not sure if anyone outside of the Buck’s fan base has Giannis over Westbrook. Most people I chat with have the same players in the top seven, just in different orders. And I think Lillard’s likely the next best player. His stat lines are great and he lead the Blazers to the third seed in a stacked West while Giannis could only get the Bucks to the seventh seed in the trash heap that is the East. Giannis is a superstar, but he’s still got a long ways to go.

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9 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Homer much? :P

I’m not sure if anyone outside of the Buck’s fan base has Giannis over Westbrook. Most people I chat with have the same players in the top seven, just in different orders. And I think Lillard’s likely the next best player. His stat lines are great and he lead the Blazers to the third seed in a stacked West while Giannis could only get the Bucks to the seventh seed in the trash heap that is the East. Giannis is a superstar, but he’s still got a long ways to go.

Giannis is a future MVP. Westbrook isn't, and Dame DEFINITELY isn't. IMHO. 

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9 minutes ago, Relic said:

Giannis is a future MVP. Westbrook isn't, and Dame DEFINITELY isn't. IMHO. 

Westbrook won it last year, and will be in contention for the award every year for the next few seasons. Lillard will never win it, but he was first team All-NBA this season. I just checked and he and Giannis have remarkably similar numbers when you control for their positions, so really it just comes down to preference. I had them 8 and 9 respectively, and the reason I put Lillard over Giannis is because he’s been more consistent.

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10 minutes ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Westbrook won it last year, and will be in contention for the award every year for the next few seasons. Lillard will never win it, but he was first team All-NBA this season. I just checked and he and Giannis have remarkably similar numbers when you control for their positions, so really it just comes down to preference. I had them 8 and 9 respectively, and the reason I put Lillard over Giannis is because he’s been more consistent.

They put up the same PPG, but Giannis has a higher eFG% and significantly more total rebounds per game as well. 

Most importantly, Giannis is a far superior defender to Lillard. Given that they have similar numbers on offense (though I would give the edge to Giannis due to efficiency and offensive rebounding), the difference in defensive value clearly puts Giannis over Lillard. 

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29 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

They put up the same PPG, but Giannis has a higher eFG% and significantly more total rebounds per game as well. 

Most importantly, Giannis is a far superior defender to Lillard. Given that they have similar numbers on offense (though I would give the edge to Giannis due to efficiency and offensive rebounding), the difference in defensive value clearly puts Giannis over Lillard. 

You would expect a big to have a higher eFG%, though the difference isn't that much. Lillard also has a much better 3FG%. Now that wouldn't matter if Giannis was playing as a traditional big, but he's got to shoot it better if he's going to be some kind of combo PG/wing. He's also a way less efficient passer. I can't speak to their defensive skill sets though. I know Lillard is an average defender, but I can't recall how Giannis ranks.

At the end of the day man, if you want to argue over who will be the better player over the next three seasons, I'd agree and say it's Giannis. But if you go off of their recent careers, I think Lillard is the better player. He's more polished and complete, and he's done more to help his team win. Giannis needs to figure out who he is as a basketball player and take the next leap in his game before I'm putting him over Lillard. 

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