NBA Free Agency 2018: Independence day, unless you're in San Antonio

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, chiKanery et al. said:

Westbrook won it last year, and will be in contention for the award every year for the next few seasons. Lillard will never win it, but he was first team All-NBA this season. I just checked and he and Giannis have remarkably similar numbers when you control for their positions, so really it just comes down to preference. I had them 8 and 9 respectively, and the reason I put Lillard over Giannis is because he’s been more consistent.

I think the shine is off Westbrook since Oladipo's flourishing away from him and PG got swallowed up in his one-man-band act. I'd be surprised to see him in the top three MVP from here on out. He didn't get in the top three this year.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

28 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I think the shine is off Westbrook since Oladipo's flourishing away from him and PG got swallowed up in his one-man-band act. I'd be surprised to see him in the top three MVP from here on out. He didn't get in the top three this year.

I think he was fourth or fifth, but if we're being honest, LeBron should get it every year outside of one's like Curry's statistically bonkers one or Westbrook setting a new triple double record which most thought could never happen. That said, you're correct to say that RW is losing some shine as others leave him and find success. He's still a great player, but of the league's elite, he's the lowest on the top tier.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I think he was fourth or fifth, but if we're being honest, LeBron should get it every year outside of one's like Curry's statistically bonkers one or Westbrook setting a new triple double record which most thought could never happen. That said, you're correct to say that RW is losing some shine as others leave him and find success. He's still a great player, but of the league's elite, he's the lowest on the top tier.

Westbrook finished fifth this year, behind Harden, LeBron, Anthony Davis, and...

Spoiler

Dame Lillard

His "score" was 1/3 of the fourth place finisher. But he beat Giannis and KD, so he's got that going for him.

[Proudfeet]

4 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I think he was fourth or fifth, but if we're being honest, LeBron should get it every year outside of one's like Curry's statistically bonkers one or Westbrook setting a new triple double record which most thought could never happen. That said, you're correct to say that RW is losing some shine as others leave him and find success. He's still a great player, but of the league's elite, he's the lowest on the top tier.

LeBron might be the best player, but the MVP is an award for performance in the regular season. I don't think he deserves it since he's in energy conservation mode for 3/4 of the season.

[Relic]

9 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Westbrook won it last year, and will be in contention for the award every year for the next few seasons. 

Yah, i know, but read what I wrote. 

 

Anyway, if we were only taking the regular season into account when ranking guys I'd have Westbrook over Giannis going forward for another couple of years. But we aren't and Russ will never win a ring as the number 1 guy. He's the kind of dude that takes 40 shots in an elimination game...and gets eliminated. 

[Red Tiger]

15 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I think he was fourth or fifth, but if we're being honest, LeBron should get it every year outside of one's like Curry's statistically bonkers one or Westbrook setting a new triple double record which most thought could never happen. That said, you're correct to say that RW is losing some shine as others leave him and find success. He's still a great player, but of the league's elite, he's the lowest on the top tier.

Starship Troopers is an amazing film. One of the few films that make me proud to be Dutch.

[Relic]

12 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Starship Troopers is an amazing film. One of the few films that make me proud to be Dutch.

I'm a fan as well but...what does it have to do with the NBA???

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

I'm a fan as well but...what does it have to do with the NBA???

Take a look at his av.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Westbrook finished fifth this year, behind Harden, LeBron, Anthony Davis, and...

  Reveal hidden contents

Dame Lillard

His "score" was 1/3 of the fourth place finisher. But he beat Giannis and KD, so he's got that going for him.

Eat it @IamMe90!!!!

10 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

LeBron might be the best player, but the MVP is an award for performance in the regular season. I don't think he deserves it since he's in energy conservation mode for 3/4 of the season.

That’s more of a recent development, and it’s hard to argue than anyone has been more valuable to their team than LeBron over the last decade.  

8 hours ago, Relic said:

Yah, i know, but read what I wrote. 

 

Anyway, if we were only taking the regular season into account when ranking guys I'd have Westbrook over Giannis going forward for another couple of years. But we aren't and Russ will never win a ring as the number 1 guy. He's the kind of dude that takes 40 shots in an elimination game...and gets eliminated. 

We’ve yet to see if Giannis can either. Davis is better than Giannis and he just won his first playoff series…..  

37 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Starship Troopers is an amazing film. One of the few films that make me proud to be Dutch.

Yeah I’ve always liked the film, but this is purely to mock Trump.  

[Proudfeet]

17 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

That’s more of a recent development, and it’s hard to argue than anyone has been more valuable to their team than LeBron over the last decade.  

It has been going on for at least a couple of years now actually. He's not a serious MVP candidate anymore and he shouldn't get it "every year". It still depends on the rest of the field, but he isn't the lock for MVP he should be if he puts in full effort.

[Jaime L]

On 7/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

You would expect a big to have a higher eFG%, though the difference isn't that much. Lillard also has a much better 3FG%. Now that wouldn't matter if Giannis was playing as a traditional big, but he's got to shoot it better if he's going to be some kind of combo PG/wing. He's also a way less efficient passer. I can't speak to their defensive skill sets though. I know Lillard is an average defender, but I can't recall how Giannis ranks.

At the end of the day man, if you want to argue over who will be the better player over the next three seasons, I'd agree and say it's Giannis. But if you go off of their recent careers, I think Lillard is the better player. He's more polished and complete, and he's done more to help his team win. Giannis needs to figure out who he is as a basketball player and take the next leap in his game before I'm putting him over Lillard. 

The big difference between the two is if Portland called up Milwaukee offering Lillard for Giannis, Milwaukee would laugh them off the phone. Whereas vice versa, Olshey, wouldn't let Horst finish the sentence before screaming "YES". 

Lillard's an excellent player but I think his highest potential is as a Kyrie-type #2 on a championship team. Whereas Giannis' is Lebron's heir athletically. If the Bucks ever wised up and surrounded him 4 shooters, he could be devastating. Ilyasova and Lopez should help. Also a 2nd team All-NBA defensive level defender. I could see him absolutely being the best player on a title team. He obviously needs to continue to improve and refine his game to get there. He looked like a legit MVP candidate for the first half of last year before regressing. But this was basically the rawest player in the 2013 draft so the strides he's made in 5 years has been nuts. Hope Coach Bud can get him there because lord knows the East needs it. 

[IamMe90]

1 hour ago, Jaimstoyevesky said:

The big difference between the two is if Portland called up Milwaukee offering Lillard for Giannis, Milwaukee would laugh them off the phone. Whereas vice versa, Olshey, wouldn't let Horst finish the sentence before screaming "YES". 

Lillard's an excellent player but I think his highest potential is as a Kyrie-type #2 on a championship team. Whereas Giannis' is Lebron's heir athletically. If the Bucks ever wised up and surrounded him 4 shooters, he could be devastating. Ilyasova and Lopez should help. Also a 2nd all NBA defense level defender. I could see him absolutely being the best player on a title team. He obviously needs to continue to improve and refine his game to get there. He looked like a legit MVP candidate for the first half of last year before regressing. But this was basically the rawest player in the 2013 draft so the strides he's made in 5 years has been nuts. Hope Coach Bud can get him there because lord knows the East needs it. 

Thanks for putting this better than I could, hah. 

 

Personally, although @SpaceForce Tywin et al. may be right in calling me a shameless homer, I really like what the Bucks have done this offseason and am really high on their chances in the upcoming season to make at least make a 2 or 3-series deep playoff run. Going from quite possibly the worst coaching in the league to an above-average head coach will be huge. We now have more shooters than ever on the roster and a big not named John Henson or Thon Maker. I'd peg us somewhere in the 3rd-6th seed, although 3 is probably a stretch. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Jaimstoyevesky said:

The big difference between the two is if Portland called up Milwaukee offering Lillard for Giannis, Milwaukee would laugh them off the phone. Whereas vice versa, Olshey, wouldn't let Horst finish the sentence before screaming "YES". 

I agree, hence why I said going forward I expect Giannis to be the better player over the course of the next three years, but that right at this moment Lillard slightly edges him out.

Quote

Lillard's an excellent player but I think his highest potential is as a Kyrie-type #2 on a championship team. Whereas Giannis' is Lebron's heir athletically. If the Bucks ever wised up and surrounded him 4 shooters, he could be devastating. Ilyasova and Lopez should help. Also a 2nd all NBA defense level defender. I could see him absolutely being the best player on a title team. He obviously needs to continue to improve and refine his game to get there. He looked like a legit MVP candidate for the first half of last year before regressing. But this was basically the rawest player in the 2013 draft so the strides he's made in 5 years has been nuts. Hope Coach Bud can get him there because lord knows the East needs it. 

I agree with Lillard. He’s likely plateaued. Giannis, OTOH, is an interesting case. He’s already in the same area as Lillard with the potential to rise much further. I agree that he can be “the guy” on a championship team, but he’s got a ways to go first. As you said he was super raw and still needs a lot of refining. But the talent is there and IamMe has every reason to be excited….for the next two years until be bolts on the team.  

1 hour ago, IamMe90 said:

Thanks for putting this better than I could, hah. 

 

Personally, although @SpaceForce Tywin et al. may be right in calling me a shameless homer, I really like what the Bucks have done this offseason and am really high on their chances in the upcoming season to make at least make a 2 or 3-series deep playoff run. Going from quite possibly the worst coaching in the league to an above-average head coach will be huge. We now have more shooters than ever on the roster and a big not named John Henson or Thon Maker. I'd peg us somewhere in the 3rd-6th seed, although 3 is probably a stretch. 

There’s nothing wrong with being a shameless homer so long as you recognize and own your shameless homerism.    

[briantw]

Toronto going all-in.  I like it.  No real downside for them.  They've got no shot of winning a title, so why not trade for Kawhi and see if you can convince him to stay?  If they fail, they just get a jump start on the rebuild.  If they succeed, they've got a good shot at winning the East for the next few years.

[Calibandar]

I was thinking the same thing. For Toronto it makes sense.

If he stays, great.

If he leaves, well you gave up your best player but your team was clearly going nowhere but to Mount Mediocrity with him.

I felt Toronto was one of the teams with a bleak outlook, stuck in the middle of the NBA.

That said, apparently neither Leonard nor DeRozan is happy with this, as it is already being reported, whcih does not suggest Leonard will stay.

[briantw]

14 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I was thinking the same thing. For Toronto it makes sense.

If he stays, great.

If he leaves, well you gave up your best player but your team was clearly going nowhere but to Mount Mediocrity with him.

I felt Toronto was one of the teams with a bleak outlook, stuck in the middle of the NBA.

That said, apparently neither Leonard nor DeRozan is happy with this, as it is already being reported, whcih does not suggest Leonard will stay.

Nobody thought George would stay in OKC either.  Might as well take a swing if you're Toronto.  DeRozan is a good player, but he's a third-tier star at best.  Leonard was a top five player in the NBA two years ago.

[Red Tiger]

Welp, guess Magic will get Kawhi in free agency next year. S'all good.

[Slurktan]

24 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Welp, guess Magic will get Kawhi in free agency next year. S'all good.

Yep.  Just like he got PG this year as you said he would.

Win-Win for the Raps.  I like DeRozan but he isn't good enough to win and getting a clear upgrade over him is delightful.  If he leaves after one year, OH No!  They rebuild a year earlier and have two massive trade contracts to deal with.  Love it.  I haven't seen who else is in it but honestly doesn't really matter, our young guys are solid but not great.  If Masai can somehow get Pop to take Norm Powell off our hands, even better.

[DanteGabriel]

Rather see Kawhi go to an Eastern contender than the fucking Lakers. And better he be in Toronto than Philly. This is good.

[Maithanet]

If Kawhi is back looking like himself and playing hard, then the Raptors definitely have a shot at winning the East this year.  I mean, they were the #1 seed last year for a reason, they just lacked top end talent to compete once rotations got shorter in the playoffs.  Kawhi is something of a wash offensively for DeRozan, but he's a HUGE upgrade defensively, and he fits well with Lowry (Kawhi's skill set fits well with almost everyone). 

I think there's a good chance that the East, even losing Lebron, is beginning to get on the upswing this year.  Nobody will beat GSW, but the rest of the West is either treading water (NO, OKC) or getting worse (HOU, SA).  Depending on how things shake out, it's quite possible that any of Boston, Philly or Toronto could be the #2 team in the league next year, and it's been a LONG time since you could say that about the East.