Darth Richard II Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Switzeran said: I have to say I do find it somewhat annoying as well. There certainly are assholes who are bothered only because Rey is female. Then there are assholes like me who think that her character is just badly written in that first movie (I think she's much better in TLJ). Yes, I am very pissy today and I apologize. I won’t bore you all with my real life drama but before this I spent about 2 hours on another forum arguing with a guy who thinks Best suicidal confession was fake and that Tran being harassed off Instagram was a media stunt, so I was on a super thin hair trigger. I don’t think you or @relic are actually alt right incel types. Or anyone in here.. I dont think. You just all caught me at the end tail of one of the worst weeks of my life, and I’m sorry I took it out on you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Well damn, this thread heated up pretty quickly. I was reading it to turn myself in for doing something I said I wouldn't do, watch The Phantom Menace again. I was captive for 8 hours and had it on my hard drive so.... It was as I remembered it. I cringed every time Jar Jar or any other Gunden or whatever they are called was on screen. Hated seeing R2 D2 randomly be introduced and C3PO do the same, did we really need to see them? Got annoyed with the birds and the bees talk about midaclorians. I didn't remember Anakin destroying the ship, hell didn't even remember him in the fighter ship at all. Other than that I didn't mind the movie. I did really enjoy the duel with Darth Maul. That is actually probably my favorite light saber type fight from all the movies, pretty much all because of the martial arts abilities of Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I actually like the pod racing for the most part. I think cause there is so little dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: I actually like the pod racing for the most part. I think cause there is so little dialogue. The main thing I didn't like was how easily he was able catch the other racers but yet not be able to blow by Sepulveda once he got to him. Based on his closing speed he should have blown him away. Same thing is shown in other movies as well, good guy catches up to bad guy from way back but then they have to battle it out til the finish line because suddenly the good guys car slows down or bad guys speeds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Yes, I am very pissy today and I apologize. I won’t bore you all with my real life drama but before this I spent about 2 hours on another forum arguing with a guy who thinks Best suicidal confession was fake and that Tran being harassed off Instagram was a media stunt, so I was on a super thin hair trigger. I don’t think you or @relic are actually alt right incel types. Or anyone in here.. I dont think. You just all caught me at the end tail of one of the worst weeks of my life, and I’m sorry I took it out on you guys. Sorry you are having a bad week man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 TLJ really just focuses on her uber-Force abilities and I guess her hand-to-hand, so the other areas of her hyper-competence aren't thrown in one's face. But it's true, it was too fast. I feel like TLJ works better if we understand that Rey's storyline is happening in a substantial gap in time, in its own chronology, up until the point that her story interacts with that of the Resistance folks to pin it down. I think this could have worked if they hadn't given her the Force mind-meld with Kylo Ren so early, I suppose. Although, then again, who's to say the Force works in terms of normal time and space? Maybe present-day Ren was speaking to a Rey several weeks in the past... I really didn't have an issue with her being a skilled fighter and being strong in the Force, especially if one supposes Luke's methods were very well-suited to her. It's just that they threw everything and the kitchen sink into her in the first film. @La Albearceleste True, but usually it's hyper-competence that suits the environment. You get street smart kids in urban settings, you get woodcrafty kids in rural settings. A lawless junkyard desert planet feels like you should get, well, a scavenger who can fight her way out of a scrap. Or maybe you get a junkyard genius who can juryrig anything. Or perhaps you get an ace pilot who can navigate any sandstorm, any canyon run, any Imperial wreck to get you to the good stuff and out. Not all of those things at the same time. Rey is River, Wash, Kaylee, and Zoë rolled into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, Werthead said: This argument is basically, "the movie is not adhering to the fanfiction we've had in our heads for 30 years therefore it sucks." Rey finding Luke, Luke going Full Yoda on her, training her up and then Luke dying in a blaze of glory and "passing the torch" is predictable, cliched and trite, and although The Last Jedi has a colossal list of problems, the Luke/Rey storyline is definitely not one of them. Ideally, we'd have been able to pick up the sequel trilogy quickly enough after the original movies to have made continuing to have Luke, Leia and Han as main characters viable, like Heir to the Empire, and the story could have gone in a different direction where we see the characters react to events in-situ (as in the EU) rather than having to skip forward 30 years of character development in a flash. But Luke's position in TLJ is reasonable, if a little derivative of Kenobi in ANH and Yoda in ESB (it also doesn't help the foundational Star Wars problem of why anyone trains Jedi at all, as their failure/Dark Side rate seems to be ridiculously high). So I guess Logan was a predictable, cliched, and trite movie then? and sure the fans love fan service but not at the expense of a good story, no matter what direction it takes, they just don't want to feel pissed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, drawkcabi said: So I guess Logan was a predictable, cliched, and trite movie then? and sure the fans love fan service but not at the expense of a good story, no matter what direction it takes, they just don't want to feel pissed on. Don't know, haven't seen it (I do own it, though, so I should sit down and watch it). Why does anyone feel "pissed on"? Luke's arc in TLJ is also pretty standard in its own way: the hero of the previous cycle is depressed by his failures and doesn't want to compound them, but is convinced by the plucky next generation hero to wade back in and help save the day. It could have been handled better - they could have gotten Matt MFing Stover to write it - but it's certainly a reasonable storyline to follow. The alternative, that Luke was so rad and awesome all the time, would have meant we had no story unless we'd gone multiple generations into the future when everyone is dead, like the Legacy comics, which would have been a reasonable choice. Quote The main thing I didn't like was how easily he was able catch the other racers but yet not be able to blow by Sepulveda once he got to him. Based on his closing speed he should have blown him away. Same thing is shown in other movies as well, good guy catches up to bad guy from way back but then they have to battle it out til the finish line because suddenly the good guys car slows down or bad guys speeds up. As any motor racing fan knows, this very, very rarely happens in real life. In 25 years of being a Formula One fan, there is exactly one and only one race in all that time where anything remotely like this happened (Canada, 2011, when people's favourite Jenson Button started from the pits at the tail end of the pack in a less-competitive car, made his way up the field, crashed into his team-mate, started from the rear again, overtook the entire field and won). Otherwise the margins are much tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 hours ago, drawkcabi said: and sure the fans love fan service but not at the expense of a good story, no matter what direction it takes, they just don't want to feel pissed on. Yet there is a substantial group that thinks TFA is the bee's knees...but I digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Werthead said: Don't know, haven't seen it (I do own it, though, so I should sit down and watch it). Why does anyone feel "pissed on"? Luke's arc in TLJ is also pretty standard in its own way: the hero of the previous cycle is depressed by his failures and doesn't want to compound them, but is convinced by the plucky next generation hero to wade back in and help save the day. It could have been handled better - they could have gotten Matt MFing Stover to write it - but it's certainly a reasonable storyline to follow. The alternative, that Luke was so rad and awesome all the time, would have meant we had no story unless we'd gone multiple generations into the future when everyone is dead, like the Legacy comics, which would have been a reasonable choice. A considerable amount of the fandom just feel Rey upstaged Luke in TLJ and then in retrospect felt she upstaged Han in TFA. You can disagree but it's what many feel, far more than the loser "we-hates-the-womans" faction. They could have accepted a depressed Luke or grown cynical Luke, or whatever, but somewhere along the line many got the feeling that the movie was trying to say Rey was all that mattered and what happened in the OT didn't mean squat and that turned many off. Add to that Leia Spacewaker, Rose Tico coming off flat and dull, and Space PETA and it was a mess. You should see Logan, then I could make the analogy better, but mostly it's just an awesome movie You can refute what I said and what others have said negative about TLJ point by point, that's what nerds have been doing on the internet since Al Gore invented it. That's not what I'm after though. My point is it just comes down to whether they're right or they're wrong these are reasons for many of the fans' dislike or hate of TLJ and it's not fair to paint them all as misogynist woman haters and make them feel they need to shut up or be labeled that if they want to express their honest opinion of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 10 hours ago, dbunting said: Well damn, this thread heated up pretty quickly. I was reading it to turn myself in for doing something I said I wouldn't do, watch The Phantom Menace again. I was captive for 8 hours and had it on my hard drive so.... It was as I remembered it. I cringed every time Jar Jar or any other Gunden or whatever they are called was on screen. Hated seeing R2 D2 randomly be introduced and C3PO do the same, did we really need to see them? Got annoyed with the birds and the bees talk about midaclorians. I didn't remember Anakin destroying the ship, hell didn't even remember him in the fighter ship at all. Other than that I didn't mind the movie. I did really enjoy the duel with Darth Maul. That is actually probably my favorite light saber type fight from all the movies, pretty much all because of the martial arts abilities of Maul. This. Easily the most riveting lightsaber combat in all of Star Wars. The score; the edits; the spare dialogue; the physicality; just brilliant. IMO, that places it very high on the list of sword fights in the history of cinema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: I actually like the pod racing for the most part. I think cause there is so little dialogue. I remember seeing the pod race scene in the theater and I was completely blown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 6 hours ago, Werthead said: As any motor racing fan knows, this very, very rarely happens in real life. In 25 years of being a Formula One fan, there is exactly one and only one race in all that time where anything remotely like this happened (Canada, 2011, when people's favourite Jenson Button started from the pits at the tail end of the pack in a less-competitive car, made his way up the field, crashed into his team-mate, started from the rear again, overtook the entire field and won). Otherwise the margins are much tighter. That race was effected by weather. Pit stops were a factor. Jenson was brilliant. Other examples: Mansell stalking Piquet at Silverstone in 86. Mansell carving his way through the field in Hungary in 89 Senna chasing down Prost at Suzuka after flubbing the start and dropping back to 14th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, drawkcabi said: A considerable amount of the fandom just feel Rey upstaged Luke in TLJ and then in retrospect felt she upstaged Han in TFA. You can disagree but it's what many feel, far more than the loser "we-hates-the-womans" faction. Then a considerable amount of the fandom is more pathetic than I thought. I have news for those people: this is not Han, Luke, and Leia's story anymore. Maybe it's just me, but isn't "upstaging" just a dumb thing to get excited about? Also, while it certainly isn't a majority of the fandom or even a majority of the critics, I would also not underestimate the "we-hates-the-womans" faction. Check the view counts or (for a truly soul-sucking experience) the comments sections of TFA reviews by Stefan Molyneux (326k views) or Ben Shapiro (1.2M views). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: This. Easily the most riveting lightsaber combat in all of Star Wars. The score; the edits; the spare dialogue; the physicality; just brilliant. IMO, that places it very high on the list of sword fights in the history of cinema. Are you on crack? Vader VS Luke in the throne room is infinitely better. As is Vader VS Luke in Cloud City. As is Ben VS Vader on the Death Star. Flashy choreography and sick dance moves don't mean shit without context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Have to agree that Luke against Darth Vader in the throne room had a lot more stakes to it. The TPM fight is impressive thanks to Ray Parks more than anything, but the only standout moment in it for me is the moment Qui-Gon and Maul are separated by the force field, and we see the two react very differently to that pause in the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: This. Easily the most riveting lightsaber combat in all of Star Wars. The score; the edits; the spare dialogue; the physicality; just brilliant. IMO, that places it very high on the list of sword fights in the history of cinema. I'm afraid I'll have to bring this video up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: This. Easily the most riveting lightsaber combat in all of Star Wars. The score; the edits; the spare dialogue; the physicality; just brilliant. IMO, that places it very high on the list of sword fights in the history of cinema. My favourite is Rey vs Ren on SKB....or maybe Rey and Ren vs Praetorian Guards. Probably the former because I think there is a lot more raw emotion involved. Ben vs Vader on the Death Star is awful to the point of being almost comical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, Corvinus of Teranga said: I'm afraid I'll have to bring this video up again. That always makes me laugh. 1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said: My favourite is Rey vs Ren on SKB....or maybe Rey and Ren vs Praetorian Guards. Probably the former because I think there is a lot more raw emotion involved. Ben vs Vader on the Death Star is awful to the point of being almost comical I'll give you Rey vs Ren is good (as is Finn's part), but Ben vs Vader is about more than the dance choreography. The most important person in the fight isn't holding a lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 TPM one is generally considered the best and pretty much always tops polls and the like. Obviously not everyone agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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