More Things Star Wars

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, Darth Richard II said:

TPM one is generally considered the best and pretty much always tops polls and the like. Obviously not everyone agrees.

The poll subjects are wrong and easily distracted. Part of the false 'goodness' of that fight is that the rest of the film is so goddamn boring that it's one of two things people remember, the other being podracing.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

40 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Are you on crack? Vader VS Luke in the throne room is infinitely better. As is Vader VS Luke in Cloud City. As is Ben VS Vader on the Death Star. 

Flashy choreography and sick dance moves don't mean shit without context.

High on life, sister.

The throne room fight had all the physicality of octogenarians having sex.  Too much clunky dialogue, also like octogenarians having sex. Plus, Vader let him win. Sick dance moves go a long way.

34 minutes ago, Switzeran said:

Have to agree that Luke against Darth Vader in the throne room had a lot more stakes to it.

The TPM fight is impressive thanks to Ray Parks more than anything, but the only standout moment in it for me is the moment Qui-Gon and Maul are separated by the force field, and we see the two react very differently to that pause in the fight. 

The other two guys were stand-ins too.  

24 minutes ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

I'm afraid I'll have to bring this video up again.

Perfection. Like a ballet, really.

 

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

High on life, sister.

The throne room fight had all the physicality octogenarians having sex.  Too much clunky dialogue. Also, Vader let him win. Sick dance moves go a long way.

Are you kidding me? TPM has them spinning around like idiots. The Throne Room in RotJ sees them chopping down scenery and shit. And when Luke gets pissed off? Are you kidding me? Seriously. Is this a joke?

That scene is the single reason I love RotJ more than ESB despite acknowledging that the former is a far inferior film.

Y'know why it's better? Because there's stakes. The entire film builds to the second confrontation of Vader, and the Emperor's presence looms over the fight as a physical manifestation of Luke's internal conflict about killing/becoming his father. There's more emotion in that scene than can be easily put into words.

And don't even get me started on Ben vs Vader. As I said, if you think that fight is about the old dude whacking at the guy who can't see out of his helmet then I'm wondering if you actually saw the movie.

[Darth Richard II]

10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

The poll subjects are wrong and easily distracted. Part of the false 'goodness' of that fight is that the rest of the film is so goddamn boring that it's one of two things people remember, the other being podracing.

You don't have to like it at all, but acting surprised and offensive when someone brings it up makes no sense. It's like acting surprised when someone says Empire is the best. Neither of these are way unheard of bizarre opinions.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

16 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

My favourite is Rey vs Ren on SKB....or maybe Rey and Ren vs Praetorian Guards. Probably the former because I think there is a lot more raw emotion involved.

 

Ben vs Vader on the Death Star is awful to the point of being almost comical

I think they were going for lightsaber scenes that were more visceral and seemingly less choreographed than the prequel trilogy. They were good.

[Darth Richard II]

That's funny cause Ben dying in ANH was added at the last minute cause they thought having Kenobi just standing around during the death star battle was kind of lame.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

You don't have to like it at all, but acting surprised and offensive when someone brings it up makes no sense. It's like acting surprised when someone says Empire is the best. Neither of these are way unheard of bizarre opinions.

I am often surprised when someone holds a stupid opinion. Have you met me? I'm a fucking bitch, man.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

That's funny cause Ben dying in ANH was added at the last minute cause they thought having Kenobi just standing around during the death star battle was kind of lame.

It is generally accepted that the film was saved in post after the disastrous shoot.

Editing, it makes up for a lot.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I am often surprised when someone holds a stupid opinion. Have you met me? I'm a fucking bitch, man.

Mom?

[felice]

1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

That's funny cause Ben dying in ANH was added at the last minute cause they thought having Kenobi just standing around during the death star battle was kind of lame.

Huh. Was Kenobi originally going to escape from Vader somehow, or were they not going to have a lightsaber duel at all?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

6 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Are you kidding me? TPM has them spinning around like idiots.

8 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

...The Throne Room in RotJ sees them chopping down scenery and shit. And when Luke gets pissed off? Are you kidding me? Seriously. Is this a joke?

That scene is the single reason I love RotJ more than ESB despite acknowledging that the former is a far inferior film.

Y'know why it's better? Because there's stakes. The entire film builds to the second confrontation of Vader, and the Emperor's presence looms over the fight as a physical manifestation of Luke's internal conflict about killing/becoming his father. There's more emotion in that scene than can be easily put into words.

And don't even get me started on Ben vs Vader. As I said, if you think that fight is about the old dude whacking at the guy who can't see out of his helmet then I'm wondering if you actually saw the movie.

I think you are confusing things a bit, I'm not talking about the impact on character or story arcs, merely the cinematic quality of the scene itself.  We'll just have to differ on this.

I've never rated the duel in RotJ very highly.  I can't believe you think it's better than the one in ESB, for all the reasons you stated.  That was probably the first time I've seen the good guy lose for crying out loud. And his hand; and his space dad; it was very moving.

As far as stakes go, aside from Obi-wan surviving, I had no idea how that fight was going to go.  Does Liam Neeson survive to the next movie? Does Maul?**  

I have no opinion of Ben vs. Vader, except it was a worthy first attempt at staging a light saber duel.  Lucas had a lot on his plate.

**for all it's faults, Liam Neeson turns in a solid performance overall in TPM.  Something never really acknowledged.

[dbunting]

The Vader Ben fight to me was only exciting because it was the first light saber duel I saw. AND we lost Ben, kind of like losing Ned in GOT, as a 5 year old watching it I expected Ben to live. After seeing it 20-30 times over the years it really isn't much of a fight, but it does have the emotion and nostalgia draw.  As to the TPM fight, calling it "sick dance moves" is just silly, basically stating that martial arts are nothing but dance moves.

[Nictarion]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Are you on crack? Vader VS Luke in the throne room is infinitely better. As is Vader VS Luke in Cloud City. As is Ben VS Vader on the Death Star. 

Flashy choreography and sick dance moves don't mean shit without context.

Lol, no. 

And Qui-Gon was awesome, so his death was plenty impactful for me.  

[Darth Richard II]

58 minutes ago, felice said:

Huh. Was Kenobi originally going to escape from Vader somehow, or were they not going to have a lightsaber duel at all?

I'm not sure. That movie's filing was really just a clusterfuck. I know the change from Starkiller to Skywalker was so late they had to reshoot some stuff.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

54 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I'm not sure. That movie's filing was really just a clusterfuck. I know the change from Starkiller to Skywalker was so late they had to reshoot some stuff.

Holy crap, I didn't know that.

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/mark-hamill-originally-said-im-luke-starkiller-im-here-to-rescue-you

I was aware of the change but I thought it came in a earlier draft of the script.

[Corvinus85]

Since this thread is about all Star Wars, I would say the best lightsaber fight in the canon universe is the final fight between Obi-Wan and Maul, with a close 2nd being Vader vs. Ahsoka Tano.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

36 minutes ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

Since this thread is about all Star Wars, I would say the best lightsaber fight in the canon universe is the final fight between Obi-Wan and Maul, with a close 2nd being Vader vs. Ahsoka Tano.

Asoka pwning the inquisitor fools was always a high point of the series for me.  So was Palpatine completely devastating the Maul-Opress brothers.  Merciless.

While not strictly a light saber duel, Pong Krell battling the clones is also memorable.  That guy had a pair of double bladed lightsabers with blades like baseball bats. 

[Darth Richard II]

1 hour ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

Since this thread is about all Star Wars, I would say the best lightsaber fight in the canon universe is the final fight between Obi-Wan and Maul, with a close 2nd being Vader vs. Ahsoka Tano.

I was just thinking that. The Maul vs Obi one was so like a Samurai film is was just, dare I say, awesomesauce.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I was just thinking that. The Maul vs Obi one was so like a Samurai film is was just, dare I say, awesomesauce.

I loved the line, "If you define yourself by your power to take life, the desire to dominate, to possess... then you have nothing." 

That's the whole Jedi-Sith dynamic summed up beautifully in one simple phrase.  Vintage Kenobi dialogue in a voice that sounded eerily similar to Alec Guiness. Brilliant.  

[drawkcabi]

9 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Then a considerable amount of the fandom is more pathetic than I thought.  I have news for those people: this is not Han, Luke, and Leia's story anymore.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't "upstaging" just a dumb thing to get excited about?

Also, while it certainly isn't a majority of the fandom or even a majority of the critics, I would also not underestimate the "we-hates-the-womans" faction.  Check the view counts or (for a truly soul-sucking experience) the comments sections of TFA reviews by Stefan Molyneux (326k views) or Ben Shapiro (1.2M views). 

It's only pathetic when caring about it becomes all consuming. I never got the whole calling nerds out for caring about the things they like as long as it does not go too far like wearing a Starfleet uniform to jury duty or going crazy at a fast food chain over Rick and Morty sauce or calling for a boycott of Star Wars. There you wade into pathetic territory.

Otherwise expressing opinions on something you are or have been enthusiastic, no I don't count that as pathetic.

Even the whole "you ruined my childhood" meme I get as an exaggerated short hand for what they really mean. They never actually mean that, at least I sure hope most don't. I know I never did when I used that phrase. Fans want new stories in their favorite franchises, but they don't want any of it to make what comes before feel sullied (see Indiana Jones 4) or less important (Ghostbusters 2016). I don't think that's pathetic and I don't think it's a hard thing to do for film makers, writers, producers, etc to avoid doing if they are also appreciative and care about the source material, at least for the majority of fans who really do want to like the new stuff, again, there's always the excessive fans, the ones nothing ever pleases them and they'll always complain beyond a point of healthy involvement.

Star Wars needs to move on from Han, Luck, and Leia's story but I got news for you, the 2 billion that The Force Awakens earned was made because of seeing Han, Chewie and the Millenium Falcon, The X Wing Fighters, and all the other call backs to the OT. Let the story move on but some fans got a sour taste in their mouths when they felt the events in the OT were not meaningful or as meaningful as it had been.

I try to avoid Ben Shapiro like the plague. I also have my own theory that a bunch of the "we-hates-the-womens" fans were never real Star Wars fans or casual fans at best, some are, I know, and that's disappointing, but I think a good portion are just the incel, misogynist, mgtows losers whatever that jump on the bandwagon only because they see a chance to advance their agenda.