More Things Star Wars

[Jace, Extat]

The one thing we know about Fett is that he's got a working relationship with Darth fucking Vader.

Not only does Vader have to tell him 'no disintegrations' but Fett is clearly double dipping on a bounty and Vader basically promises INSURANCE on Han. 

That's fucking awesome! Boba Fett is such a badass that even Darth Vader treats him preferentially.

[Darth Richard II]

Maybe they’re dating on the side.

[felice]

9 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Maybe they’re dating on the side.

That day, Vader was amazed to discover that when Fett was saying "As you wish", what he meant was, "I love you."

[Corvinus85]

19 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

OH and I found this an insightful read

https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/1016778646655123456?s=20

 

Huh, this also helped me understand one of the few moments regarding Luke in TLJ that I was still frowning on, specifically his brief moment of weakness when he thought about killing Ben. While in his fight with Vader, he had the brief moment when he gave into anger, with Ben, he gave into fear, both paths to the dark side, yet both times he came back and remained a Jedi. Damn...

The only part that still remains an open issue for me is the why was Ben being seduced by the dark side.

[Jace, Extat]

Daddy issues.

[Astromech]

4 hours ago, felice said:

That day, Vader was amazed to discover that when Fett was saying "As you wish", what he meant was, "I love you."

Hahaha, now I'll never be able to watch his death to the Sarlacc without hearing him say those words. Like Wesley when he was rolling drown the hill.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

Huh, this also helped me understand one of the few moments regarding Luke in TLJ that I was still frowning on, specifically his brief moment of weakness when he thought about killing Ben. While in his fight with Vader, he had the brief moment when he gave into anger, with Ben, he gave into fear, both paths to the dark side, yet both times he came back and remained a Jedi. Damn...

The only part that still remains an open issue for me is the why was Ben being seduced by the dark side.

I believe Luke explicitly mentions Snoke seducing him no? Certainly think that deserves more explanation, and I think we’ll get more backstory next film

[Corvinus85]

16 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I believe Luke explicitly mentions Snoke seducing him no? Certainly think that deserves more explanation, and I think we’ll get more backstory next film

Yes, he says that, Leia says it in TFA, too, but we don't know the backdrop of it all.

In Anakin's case, even if you completely remove the prequels from mind, the info we get is that a young Jedi, Vader, was seduced by the dark side. Then we later learn that Vader = Anakin, so it was Anakin seduced by the dark side. But we also know from ANH, that Obi-Wan and Anakin fought together in the Clone Wars. So you can deduce, without knowing the details that the prequels give you, that Anakin was likely seduced to the dark side in a time of war. Such an event is understandable - good men can become bad in war. Comparing Anakin with a real life person type, I would say he is someone who becomes a war criminal. (again, keeping the prequels out of mind)

But what war or traumatic event took place in Ben Solo's time? Was it just poor upbringing by his parents (daddy issues as Jace said), coupled also, maybe, with poor mentorship from Luke? Or is he just a psychopath, always destined to become evil? At this point, I equate Ben Solo not with a war criminal like Anakin, but with a school shooter, which I suppose is appropriate, given the times we live in.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I believe Luke explicitly mentions Snoke seducing him no? Certainly think that deserves more explanation, and I think we’ll get more backstory next film

You have way too much faith in JJ...

[DanteGabriel]

17 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

The one thing we know about Fett is that he's got a working relationship with Darth fucking Vader.

Not only does Vader have to tell him 'no disintegrations' but Fett is clearly double dipping on a bounty and Vader basically promises INSURANCE on Han. 

That's fucking awesome! Boba Fett is such a badass that even Darth Vader treats him preferentially.

So Boba Fett is the Erik Prince to Vader's Dick Cheney?

[Jace, Extat]

3 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

So Boba Fett is the Erik Prince to Vader's Dick Cheney?

That's insulting. Bona Fett is a well rounded and fleshed out character, not some comic book villain!

[Mosi Mynn]

Apologies if y'all have moved on from this, but I'm making way through this thread and came across the "Rey is a Mary Sue" debate.

The one thing I loved about TLJ was the Rey/Ren dichotomy.  I really wish they had done more with that.  It's the middle part of a trilogy - have Rey join Ren as the expected downer. 

I also wish Rey was Luke's daughter.  I kind of assumed she was in TFA because of her supreme competency in all things.  I thought her training (as a toddler, but still - she could have picked up some stuff being raised in a Jedi Academy) was kicking in as she encountered various situations throughout the film.  And then Ren tries to take stuff from her mind, and her Forciness enables her to fight back and take stuff she subliminally already knows, and gives her one hell of an upgrade.  The one moment in TFA that I did think came out of nowhere was when she Obi Wan'd Daniel Craig.  How did she know how to do that so confidently? 

My main reasons for wanting her to be Luke's daughter are a) I don't think bloodlines matter a jot in Star Wars, but I did think these numbered episodes were about the Skywalkers, but mainly b) I really like the idea of Luke's daughter and Leia's son finding a middle way with the Force, neither Dark nor Light. 

Just to finish off my fanfic, I thought Ren had left her on Jakku, unable to kill his little cousin at the Temple, which is why he seemed to know of her (Han seemed to know her too - I might have misread that). 

The presumed death of his daughter could also explain why Luke has cut himself off from the Force and everything and hates and fears Ren so much, and also explain why he has knowingly left a potential Vader loose in the galaxy. 

Also what was the old guy with the map to Luke doing so close to Rey on Jakku anyway? 

Clearly, Rian Johnson wanted to go another way - which is kind of fine.  But the pay off in IX had better be pretty fantastic, because in TLJ Rey did not struggle with anything ever, and Ren has reverted to pantomime villain after being interesting for a film.

Ooh that was rambling and long - sorry!  I think the "Light rising to the meet the Dark" reason for Rey's mad skillz was done already with Anakin.  I really wanted this to be a different story.  Although I would have accepted Rey becoming a Vader too.  Too late for that now, though.

[drawkcabi]

Mending Your Relationship With Star Wars

[Liver and Onions]

I remember that Boba Fett first showed up in the classic  Star Wars Christmas special animated sequence. If anyone actually stuck around to watch that, I wonder if that influenced how people saw him in the film. Or if that animation was retconned into the special's only redeeming feature by Boba Fett in TESB....  

With regard to Episode IX, I still hope that Snoke shows up as a force ghost to mess things up. Didn't the Emperor's ghost cause trouble in the EU comics/novels? It's been a while...

 

[Darth Richard II]

Oh EVERYONES Ghost fucked shit up in the EU.

[Corvinus85]

11 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said:

Apologies if y'all have moved on from this, but I'm making way through this thread and came across the "Rey is a Mary Sue" debate.

The one thing I loved about TLJ was the Rey/Ren dichotomy.  I really wish they had done more with that.  It's the middle part of a trilogy - have Rey join Ren as the expected downer. 

I also wish Rey was Luke's daughter.  I kind of assumed she was in TFA because of her supreme competency in all things.  I thought her training (as a toddler, but still - she could have picked up some stuff being raised in a Jedi Academy) was kicking in as she encountered various situations throughout the film.  And then Ren tries to take stuff from her mind, and her Forciness enables her to fight back and take stuff she subliminally already knows, and gives her one hell of an upgrade.  The one moment in TFA that I did think came out of nowhere was when she Obi Wan'd Daniel Craig.  How did she know how to do that so confidently? 

My main reasons for wanting her to be Luke's daughter are a) I don't think bloodlines matter a jot in Star Wars, but I did think these numbered episodes were about the Skywalkers, but mainly b) I really like the idea of Luke's daughter and Leia's son finding a middle way with the Force, neither Dark nor Light. 

Just to finish off my fanfic, I thought Ren had left her on Jakku, unable to kill his little cousin at the Temple, which is why he seemed to know of her (Han seemed to know her too - I might have misread that). 

The presumed death of his daughter could also explain why Luke has cut himself off from the Force and everything and hates and fears Ren so much, and also explain why he has knowingly left a potential Vader loose in the galaxy. 

Also what was the old guy with the map to Luke doing so close to Rey on Jakku anyway? 

Clearly, Rian Johnson wanted to go another way - which is kind of fine.  But the pay off in IX had better be pretty fantastic, because in TLJ Rey did not struggle with anything ever, and Ren has reverted to pantomime villain after being interesting for a film.

Ooh that was rambling and long - sorry!  I think the "Light rising to the meet the Dark" reason for Rey's mad skillz was done already with Anakin.  I really wanted this to be a different story.  Although I would have accepted Rey becoming a Vader too.  Too late for that now, though.

That was a theory that went around the web after TFA, but imo, I don't know how that could have been. Kylo Ren never actually recognizes Rey in the film, he's just puzzled by her. And if he had done that, even with the number of years that passed by, there would have probably been a force familiarity (kinda how like Vader senses Obi Wan). But not only did Johnson go in a different direction, the flashback with the confrontation between Luke and Ben imply that there hadn't been that many years since it happened.

[Mosi Mynn]

7 hours ago, Corvinus of Teranga said:

That was a theory that went around the web after TFA, but imo, I don't know how that could have been. Kylo Ren never actually recognizes Rey in the film, he's just puzzled by her. And if he had done that, even with the number of years that passed by, there would have probably been a force familiarity (kinda how like Vader senses Obi Wan). But not only did Johnson go in a different direction, the flashback with the confrontation between Luke and Ben imply that there hadn't been that many years since it happened.

It was his reaction when he heard Finn and BB8 had left Jakku with "a girl".  Why react at all to that?  Why would it matter?  And I think there is enough ambiguity in his reactions to her throughout TFA to interpret it as him knowing exactly who she is but not wanting to reveal that for a number of reasons.

The time thing is interesting.  Did TFA reveal how long Luke had been missing?  I think Ren in the flashback was maybe supposed to be a teenager?  There is about ten years between Ren and Rey, so that could add up - though it would mean Rey was born when Luke was fairly old.

I also thought Rey had had her memory tampered with in TFA.  She doesn't seem to have much awareness of the Rebellion, recognising Han Solo as a smugger rather than someone who fought in the war.  She thinks Luke is a myth, when surely he should be quite a famous war hero?  And despite that, she knows or has heard of the Jedi Temple.  This can all be explained by her picking up random bits of information, but I like the mysterious origins thing!

[karaddin]

On 7/13/2018 at 10:42 PM, Corvinus said:

The only part that still remains an open issue for me is the why was Ben being seduced by the dark side.

 

On 7/14/2018 at 12:59 AM, Corvinus said:

But what war or traumatic event took place in Ben Solo's time? Was it just poor upbringing by his parents (daddy issues as Jace said), coupled also, maybe, with poor mentorship from Luke? Or is he just a psychopath, always destined to become evil? At this point, I equate Ben Solo not with a war criminal like Anakin, but with a school shooter, which I suppose is appropriate, given the times we live in.

I think the difference between Ben and Anakin is central to the different attitudes towards whether they can be redeemed by Luke and Leia. Anakin stumbled after extensive grooming in a high pressure situation where Windu was doing precisely what Palpatine told Anakin would happen. If you bring in all of TCW material you also have Anakin having significant reasons to mistrust the jedi and what was going on in the war. All of this leaves aside the family based pressures, which again were a matter of grooming (the dreams) and misdeeds of the Jedi (leaving his Mum a slave/to eventually be killed), that lead to him stopping Windu. From that point he sees his choice as having been made for him, and goes full Vader as his only option left but Vader is functionally a constructed persona to avoid confronting what he did. Luke shows him a way back after all the evil, and he takes it and Anakin the person resurfaces.

Ben by contrast IS Kylo Ren. His trigger point was similarly understandable and high pressure, but everything since then he's been aware that he can change, he wasn't trapped in that course of action, but he continues to choose that every single time. Ben isn't lost inside him to reach, there's nothing to get through to, so Luke and Leia give up on him.

As for his motivations? Jace is pretty much spot on. He's grown up in the shadow of his father and mother - Generals of the rebellion and heroes of the civil war while seeing his father for the morally dubious smuggler he is at heart and his mother not having the time for him. They (to his eyes) abandon him to the care of his uncle, leaving him in the shadow of the only greater hero of the war and the greatest jedi of all Luke Skywalker. Major daddy issues, major abandonment issues and major inadequacy. Snoke took all that and stoked it, by stepping out and becoming evil he found an identity of his own and his way to get into the light.

[Mosi Mynn]

5 hours ago, karaddin said:

Ben by contrast IS Kylo Ren. His trigger point was similarly understandable and high pressure, but everything since then he's been aware that he can change, he wasn't trapped in that course of action, but he continues to choose that every single time. Ben isn't lost inside him to reach, there's nothing to get through to, so Luke and Leia give up on him.

That's just terrible!

Why does Ben not idolise Anakin over Vader?  I can understand a resentful, gothy teen wanting to be like the iconic Dark Lord he's related to (we've all been there), but that should have just been a phase.  I guess that's when Snoke got to him.  But Luke in particular should have emphasised Anakin's courage, and at the right moment pointed out that Vader failed, the Dark Side failed, and Anakin and the Light prevailed.

It is also utterly irresponsible to let his angry powerful young man roam the Galaxy to kill and torture hundreds of people.  If he really couldn't be saved then he needed to be put down.  As did Snoke.  Luke effectively gave them the Galaxy!

I can see why folk were upset at how Luke was written in TLJ.  This was the man who thought Darth Vader could be saved.  Yet he completely abandons Ben, who he has seen grown up, and who he must feel partially responsible for.  He can reach Vader after knowing of their relationship for a year. he should be able to reach Ben.

[Astromech]

1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said:

That's just terrible!

Why does Ben not idolise Anakin over Vader?  I can understand a resentful, gothy teen wanting to be like the iconic Dark Lord he's related to (we've all been there), but that should have just been a phase.  I guess that's when Snoke got to him.  But Luke in particular should have emphasised Anakin's courage, and at the right moment pointed out that Vader failed, the Dark Side failed, and Anakin and the Light prevailed.

It is also utterly irresponsible to let his angry powerful young man roam the Galaxy to kill and torture hundreds of people.  If he really couldn't be saved then he needed to be put down.  As did Snoke.  Luke effectively gave them the Galaxy!

I can see why folk were upset at how Luke was written in TFA.  This was the man who thought Darth Vader could be saved.  Yet he completely abandons Ben, who he has seen grown up, and who he must feel partially responsible for.  He can reach Vader after knowing of their relationship for a year. he should be able to reach Ben.

He probably saw the prequels.