karaddin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 9:51 PM, Mosi Mynn said: That's just terrible! ... It is also utterly irresponsible to let his angry powerful young man roam the Galaxy to kill and torture hundreds of people. If he really couldn't be saved then he needed to be put down. As did Snoke. Luke effectively gave them the Galaxy! I think you're misunderstanding my point - they didn't let Ben roam around the galaxy to kill and torture because they'd given up on him, they let that happen because they refused to confront the need to give up on him. The emotional act of truly accepting they need to fight him occurs at the very end of TLJ - when Luke's projection walks in, says goodbye to Leia and apologises that he can't save her son. Sure he says to Rey before that that it won't work, but he's still emotionally running from that truth. I was thinking some more about this, and how I seem to attribute much greater value to Kylo getting humiliated than most and had these (somehow unordered) thoughts in my head. The new trilogy is, to varying degrees, either repeating notes from the OT or alluding to them. I expect at least some of that to continue in EpIX. We (only discussions generally and in here) talked about how in RotJ Luke momentarily gives in to the dark side and defeats Vader in battle, only to throw his LS away and refuse the call of the dark/the Emperor. I don't think I've seen it discussed that the visual trigger which jolts him out of the dark side is looking at his fathers severed mechanical arm, then looking at his own mechanical arm and through that their shared humanity. So from a certain point of view, his defeat to Vader at the end of Empire is ultimately the catalyst for their ultimate victory. Bonus points for Yoda telling him not to go, in addition to telling him to kill Vader - Yoda's failures aren't just the PT, they're all the direct advice he gives Luke about the situation in the OT which is informed by the mistakes they made in the PT. So what do we have in TLJ that could parallel or rhyme with these particular things. Luke urges Rey not to go to Ren, but ultimately Rey's presence there leads to saving those important to her much like Luke saves Leia/sets in motion Lando joining them and allowing for the plan that saves Han. I think the part that corresponds to the loss of the hand is much more abstract though as its not directly a loss for the good guys, but will be the thing that 'jolts' the story out of its rush to a dark ending much like Luke looking at the mechanical hand did. Hux is dunked on for pretty much the entirety of TLJ. He's played for a fool by Poe, his subordinate commanding the Dreadnought is openly contemptuous of him, Snoke calls him a "Rabid Cur" to Kylo while he's still in ear shot walking out of the room. He has no loyalty to Kylo, rather he's been depicted as seeing him as a rival for the first 1.5 movies of the trilogy and is only falling in line when he feels the fist around his throat. And for all that the people around him in The First Order view him with contempt, he was right when he tried to stop Kylo getting distracted by Luke - it got him slammed into a wall, and then Kylo was humiliated in front of his army. I view this as a double blow to Kylo, even the useless fuck up could see the trap that he fell for. So what I can see happening in EpIX to rhyme with RotJ is that instead of it being the inherent good buried inside Luke and Anakin that saves the day, its the malice in Hux. I don't for even a second think he'll be redeemed, but at the moment when their victory seems apparent he will stab Kylo in the back in his own attempted power grab and this will be the opening that the resistance exploit. Sorry for the terrible rambling, I'm not sure that actually rhymes back as well as it seemed in my head so much as just being stream of consciousness as I thread my way to predicting that the treatment of Hux is not without purpose, nor was Luke's physical death without purpose or victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 The fact that it doesn't include opportunity for a lens flare is the proof that J.J. will go a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 See you're just exposing your lack of imagination. Ren could be standing over a defeated Rey with his sabre at her throat in his brand new Snoke style throne room that hasn't had the curtains installed yet - we've got the glorious vista of the heavens exposed before us, just as Ren is about to deliver the killing blow he's blinded by a lensflare and Hux takes the opportunity to shoot him in the back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, karaddin said: See you're just exposing your lack of imagination. Ren could be standing over a defeated Rey with his sabre at her throat in his brand new Snoke style throne room that hasn't had the curtains installed yet - we've got the glorious vista of the heavens exposed before us, just as Ren is about to deliver the killing blow he's blinded by a lensflare and Hux takes the opportunity to shoot him in the back! Oh god! What if the lens flare comes off Hux's blaster!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Oh god! What if the lens flare comes off Hux's blaster!?! Perfect! I can't believe I missed that opportunity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 7 hours ago, karaddin said: I think you're misunderstanding my point - they didn't let Ben roam around the galaxy to kill and torture because they'd given up on him, they let that happen because they refused to confront the need to give up on him. The emotional act of truly accepting they need to fight him occurs at the very end of TLJ - when Luke's projection walks in, says goodbye to Leia and apologises that he can't save her son. Sure he says to Rey before that that it won't work, but he's still emotionally running from that truth. I get that bringing him down and giving up on him would be terrible choices for his family to make. But these are veterans of war - they know what has to be done. They know what damage a rampant(in this case,, wannabe) Sith can do. And Leia is eminently practical. She - more even than Han or Luke - would know that they can't let another Vader loose on the Galaxy. Maybe IX would have had Leia act on this realisation At the very least, why did Luke not go after Snoke? As to Hux betraying Kylo Ren - I'd be staggered if he doesn't do that between films! What does the First Order even need Kylo for? They own the Galaxy now. After the Crait humiliation, Ren should have no standing at all with the First Order. Of course, Hux is one of the worst Star Wars characters ever, and I don't want to see him as the Big Bad of IX, but maybe he can step up and be a Tarkin ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said: I get that bringing him down and giving up on him would be terrible choices for his family to make. But these are veterans of war - they know what has to be done. They know what damage a rampant(in this case,, wannabe) Sith can do. And Leia is eminently practical. She - more even than Han or Luke - would know that they can't let another Vader loose on the Galaxy. Maybe IX would have had Leia act on this realisation At the very least, why did Luke not go after Snoke? As to Hux betraying Kylo Ren - I'd be staggered if he doesn't do that between films! What does the First Order even need Kylo for? They own the Galaxy now. After the Crait humiliation, Ren should have no standing at all with the First Order. Of course, Hux is one of the worst Star Wars characters ever, and I don't want to see him as the Big Bad of IX, but maybe he can step up and be a Tarkin ... I think you are seriously underestimating the power of love to blind people to the faults in those we care for, especially family. Leia is definitely practical, but she is not heartless. She is not the type of character to order her son put down even if she does know his true nature. And Luke, even if he didn’t care two figs for Ben, wouldn’t want to hurt Leia like that...I mean I wouldnsuspect he never told her he tried to kill Ben at the temple either. As for not hunting down Snoke, who knows? Probably not as easy as it sound s if Snoke hides away at the heart of the First Order and the Resistance is crippled by the New Republic’s aversion to conflict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said: I get that bringing him down and giving up on him would be terrible choices for his family to make. But these are veterans of war - they know what has to be done. They know what damage a rampant(in this case,, wannabe) Sith can do. And Leia is eminently practical. She - more even than Han or Luke - would know that they can't let another Vader loose on the Galaxy. Maybe IX would have had Leia act on this realisation At the very least, why did Luke not go after Snoke? Dude, it's their kid. It's not just some person out there. And rather than make that choice, they allowed their indecision to destroy their relationship and family and everything, because the alternative would be to kill their son. Note that this is a great parallel to Luke's choice - to NOT kill his father at the risk of everything, and they saw how that turned out - really fucking good, in the end. So given that their previous evidence was that love will win out if they try, it's hard to imagine why they would do anything other than, well, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 17 hours ago, karaddin said: Sorry for the terrible rambling, I'm not sure that actually rhymes back as well as it seemed in my head so much as just being stream of consciousness as I thread my way to predicting that the treatment of Hux is not without purpose, nor was Luke's physical death without purpose or victory. On the contrary, that post was the most interesting thing I've read about TLJ..maybe ever. I especially liked the point about Hux. Domhnall Gleeson does seem to be in nearly everything these days, so who knows? Certainly would take him over Adam Driver in a battle of wills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Kalbear said: Dude, it's their kid. It's not just some person out there. And rather than make that choice, they allowed their indecision to destroy their relationship and family and everything, because the alternative would be to kill their son. Note that this is a great parallel to Luke's choice - to NOT kill his father at the risk of everything, and they saw how that turned out - really fucking good, in the end. So given that their previous evidence was that love will win out if they try, it's hard to imagine why they would do anything other than, well, nothing. 12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: I think you are seriously underestimating the power of love to blind people to the faults in those we care for, especially family. Leia is definitely practical, but she is not heartless. She is not the type of character to order her son put down even if she does know his true nature. And Luke, even if he didn’t care two figs for Ben, wouldn’t want to hurt Leia like that...I mean I wouldnsuspect he never told her he tried to kill Ben at the temple either. As for not hunting down Snoke, who knows? Probably not as easy as it sound s if Snoke hides away at the heart of the First Order and the Resistance is crippled by the New Republic’s aversion to conflict I do get all that. And I do like the parallel with not killing Vader, but at least Luke was trying to do something there - and it worked! It seems that they not only let Ben run off to wreck everything they fought for, but they also stopped trying. Except for Leia (although she did seem to have given up on Ben). But Luke and Han just completely gave up. And when a bright young spark with the desire and power to take on Kylo Ren shows up Luke tries to turn her away too! I know he's seriously jaded by this point, but surely it's reckless in the extreme to unleash yet another uber-Force user on the Galaxy without trying to train them first. What did he think Rey was going to do with all this power and no guidance whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said: What did he think Rey was going to do with all this power and no guidance whatsoever? Move to Canto Bight and cheat at sabacc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Can I just remind everyone how AWFUL the Finn/Rose B plot was? And I kinda dug TLJ... I even liked Benicio's character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Clone Wars getting a new season per SDCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Disney to launch new streaming service with a CLONE WARS mini-series to wrap up the original show. The mini-series will depict the Siege of Mandalore, Ahsoka Tano joining forces with Anakin to take down Maul (although we obviously know how that turns out) and this then segueing into the Battle of Coruscant that opens Revenge of the Sith. The circle is complete. Or will be in late 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 That is great news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Werthead said: Disney to launch new streaming service with a CLONE WARS mini-series to wrap up the original show. Huh. Will it include completing the episodes that currently exist as animatics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'ari Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 10:55 AM, Mosi Mynn said: I get that bringing him down and giving up on him would be terrible choices for his family to make. But these are veterans of war - they know what has to be done. They know what damage a rampant(in this case,, wannabe) Sith can do. And Leia is eminently practical. She - more even than Han or Luke - would know that they can't let another Vader loose on the Galaxy. Maybe IX would have had Leia act on this realisation At the very least, why did Luke not go after Snoke? As to Hux betraying Kylo Ren - I'd be staggered if he doesn't do that between films! What does the First Order even need Kylo for? They own the Galaxy now. After the Crait humiliation, Ren should have no standing at all with the First Order. Of course, Hux is one of the worst Star Wars characters ever, and I don't want to see him as the Big Bad of IX, but maybe he can step up and be a Tarkin ... Ren cant do that much damage, he’s not very powerful, is rubbish with his ridiculous looking lightsaber and is too prone to foolish emotional outbursts. In fact the only thing he’s strong in is embarrassing himself, to the degree that even I want the resistance to win!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, felice said: Huh. Will it include completing the episodes that currently exist as animatics? I don't think so. It's solely the Siege of Mandalore arc which I think was planned to be 4-6 episodes at the end of Season 6. It'd be nice to complete those episodes as well to give us a complete Season 6. Maybe later if this mini-series is successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Wait. The next animated series, Resistance, is all about Poe? Fail, Disney. Epic fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Can I just remind everyone how AWFUL the Finn/Rose B plot was? And I kinda dug TLJ... I even liked Benicio's character. Awful is a strong word. It’s not necessary, and is a bit clumsy, but it wasn't as long as it originally felt when I watched it a second and third time. I don’t deny that it could have been handled better though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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