Jen'ari Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Corvinus said: I don't believe you're the real Lord Sidious. All I see is a big L for the avatar. Though perhaps, considering events at Endor, that is appropriate. I’ve been quite busy recently with the seer gig on Vikings, that and bringing up a new apprentice, I shall find a minion to sort out my avatar soon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 34 minutes ago, Corvinus said: I don't believe you're the real Lord Sidious. All I see is a big L for the avatar. His injuries have left him scarred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said: His injuries have left him scarred. Don't forget deformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 57 minutes ago, Lord Sidious said: He’s a very good actor, unfortunately the character just isn’t to me, his instability, petulance and lack of power just put me off him completely, I actually much prefer Rey as a character, a powerful Sith she should become!. I feel that this is a missed opportunity in TLJ. Both Ren and Rey are shown to be be drawn to both the Dark and the Light Sides, and use elements of both. Yet the ending of the film implies Ren has gone fully evil, and Rey fully good. BORING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said: I feel that this is a missed opportunity in TLJ. Both Ren and Rey are shown to be be drawn to both the Dark and the Light Sides, and use elements of both. Yet the ending of the film implies Ren has gone fully evil, and Rey fully good. BORING! Yeah, but no. Rey might be drawn to both, that's reasonable. Ren has not once shown anything like a light side yearning. Snoke teased him about it, but Ren used that to kill Snoke, take over, and rule in his own stead. Ren hasn't shown any use of lightside powers either. The realization that Rey had to have was that Ren is fully evil, isn't redeemable, and isn't worth saving. He went fully evil when he killed his dad. Everything else was him using other people's perceptions and hopes against him. Luke realizes this as well, when he says 'no' to Ren's question. And honestly, that's good. I like that Ren is unabashedly a villain. I understand his motivations, I sympathize with some of his reasoning, but he's still the bad guy, and he doesn't deserve a redemption arc. He deserves to be put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Yeah, but no. Rey might be drawn to both, that's reasonable. Ren has not once shown anything like a light side yearning. Snoke teased him about it, but Ren used that to kill Snoke, take over, and rule in his own stead. Ren hasn't shown any use of lightside powers either. The realization that Rey had to have was that Ren is fully evil, isn't redeemable, and isn't worth saving. He went fully evil when he killed his dad. Everything else was him using other people's perceptions and hopes against him. Luke realizes this as well, when he says 'no' to Ren's question. And honestly, that's good. I like that Ren is unabashedly a villain. I understand his motivations, I sympathize with some of his reasoning, but he's still the bad guy, and he doesn't deserve a redemption arc. He deserves to be put down. Except no he didn't go fully evil when he killed Han because he purposely didn't shoot and kill his Mom. Did you even watch TLJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Slurktan said: Except no he didn't go fully evil when he killed Han because he purposely didn't shoot and kill his Mom. Did you even watch TLJ? Yep! I just don't agree that this makes him less than purely evil. Not killing your mom isn't an act of good. It's an act of indecision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I thought Ren was more interesting when there was the possibility he was powerful because he balanced light and dark urges. He couldn't beat Rey because killing his father made him skewed to the dark side and weaker. That goes out the window with TLJ as he appears to embrace the dark side and be stronger for it. Unless killing snoke cancelled out killing Han. It might be he killed smoke to save Rey which is more noble than his assertion it was for power. I hope that's the case as Luke and themes in rebels suggest the force is the force and it's the various sects that have corrupted and fragmented it into light, dark, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liver and Onions Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I'm a bit torn on the idea that Kylo Ren is an irredeemable villain. On one hand, giving him third and fourth chances will get repetitive and make the heroes look foolish; on the other hand, it does gives an element of uncertainty when the bad guy might switch sides or show mercy at a key point. I do like him as a villain. He's intimidating and petulant, but still feels like a real person. As for Rey going to the Dark Side, I wonder if she'll find out that maybe the Force doesn't really have light and dark sides. It might tie in with what Luke told her, than the Jedi don't own the Force. So it's less of her going evil and more of her going against what the prequels framed as Jedi disciplines. Not sure if I'm making sense. This does remind me that I've never watched much of the Clone Wars series. I should rectify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I had hoped that Luke in TLJ was rejecting the Jedi, but not the Force. Rey appears to largely have embraced the Jedi way - at least getting the old texts, Luke believing that he isn't the last Jedi, etc - but perhaps I'll be pleasantly mistaken. Though probably not given JJ; he isn't exactly going to be subtle. One of the things I like is Rian Johnson clearly respected and knew the story of star wars and wanted to give it an extension - especially the Force - but not ignore the bad things in the past. I'm not sure JJ has that level of nuance. Which is probably okay given that it's the last movie in the trilogy, but is a bit sad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I always thought one of the main points of the prequels was that the Jedi were wrong about some stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Well, it was one of the things they could have done. I don't think they did it very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Oh, I'm not syaing it was done WELL. Just I remember a lot of fan rage over the Jedi not being perfect awesome super heroes of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Wait, what?!? The Clone Wars gets a final movie? I thought Rebels was hijacked to wrap up its last storylines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Kalbear said: Though probably not given JJ; he isn't exactly going to be subtle. One of the things I like is Rian Johnson clearly respected and knew the story of star wars and wanted to give it an extension - especially the Force - but not ignore the bad things in the past. I'm not sure JJ has that level of nuance. Which is probably okay given that it's the last movie in the trilogy, but is a bit sad to me. I have more faith in Abrams than Johnson after TLJ. Abrams set up interesting questions about Light and Dark and where Rey and Ren fitted into them, and Johnson and TLJ explored that further, and I thought they were going to take it in an interesting (maybe Grey) direction ... and then Ren ended up going full-on eeeevillll, and Rey went good. I can't see IX reneging on that, as it would then be the third film to feature someone trying to redeem Ren (which could have been interesting if it was Leia :-(). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Toth said: Wait, what?!? The Clone Wars gets a final movie? I thought Rebels was hijacked to wrap up its last storylines. Yes, it was mentioned above, and it's not a movie, but a final season really, with 12 episodes. It will mainly cover the Siege of Mandalore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said: I have more faith in Abrams than Johnson after TLJ. There's something one doesn't hear every day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: There's something one doesn't hear every day... Into Darkness aside, I've never had a problem with JJ Abrams. And I enjoyed TFA way more than TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Corvinus said: Yes, it was mentioned above, and it's not a movie, but a final season really, with 12 episodes. It will mainly cover the Siege of Mandalore. Was this covered by the dark horse comics it is this going to be another classic case of comic continuations are only canon until someone makes another TV show or film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 The Dark Horse comics where thrown out of the official continuity with the rest of the old EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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