More Things Star Wars

[Calibandar]

We're not talking about the cartoons for kids, nor is anyone talking about the 70's and the OT. Could you drag in some more irrelevant stuff? 

I'm clearly talking about the recent live action films which outside of the much maligned Solo, have all had female leads and it would be nice to see some more diversity in that. True diversity Ran, includes male leads.  

It's a fair point to change it up a bit and have a male lead character for the tv series after 3 major Star Wars movies that all had female lead characters. Why on Earth would you be against such diversity?

 

[Darth Richard II]

lol

[Ran]

 

4 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

We're not talking about the cartoons for kids, nor is anyone talking about the 70's and the OT. Could you drag in some more irrelevant stuff? 

It's hardly irrelevant. It's the Star Wars filmed and televised universe that we're talking about, which is and has been historically lacking in real balance.  Lets see where we're at in a couple of decades regarding gender balance in the Star Wars universe.

4 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I'm clearly talking about the recent live action films which outside of the much maligned Solo

And the much-maligned TFA and TLJ in some quarters, no? If we're going to talk about films being "maligned" as not really counting to your gender quotas, then in fact there's simply Rogue One to concern yourself with. Hardly a trend to cry about.

4 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

, have all had female leads and it would be nice to see some more diversity in that. True diversity Ran, includes male leads.  

I know I left my tiny violin somewhere.

[Calibandar]

Darth Richard is a great poster with valuable contributions.

 

[Darth Richard II]

[Derfel Cadarn]

27 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Agreed. 

[Darth Richard II]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

Darth Richard is a great poster with valuable contributions.

 

Awww shucks, thanks.

[HexMachina]

Well that answer surprised me not at all, so hurray for consistency I guess

[Werthead]

Quote

That's how the books started out.....  don't think it's canon anymore though.

I could be wrong, but I think one of the new Lucasfilm Story Group confirmed that Boba (probably) survived in the New Canon as well, and certainly a couple of the supposedly-canon new books strongly hinted at that.

Quote

 

after 3 major Star Wars movies that all had female lead characters

 

The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi are ensemble pictures with 5 key protagonists in each movie (Rey/Ren/Finn/Poe in both, plus Han in TFA and then Luke in TLJ), only one of whom is female. Arguably Rey is the most powerful and prominent of the new characters, but she is not indisputably the main character in the same way that Jyn Erso was in Rogue One.

Obviously we don't know what's going on in the Weiss & Benioff or Johnson movies, but of the other films in development clearly the Obi-Wan and Boba Fett movies (if they happen) will have male leads as well.

[Darth Richard II]

I was under the impression the Obi Wan and Bobba Fett films were canned,  but then again 1. Star Wars rumors on the internet, right? and 2. I don;t think they were ever officially announced so they can;t be officially canceled, I guess.

[Calibandar]

Yeah, the future of those two films is very much up in the air after the latest round of announcements, in fact it sounds more likely now that they will not be made, rather than that they will be. As such they shouldn't be brought up in this comparison of male vs female characters. If these films had been a go, I wouldn't have made the point I made.

Wert, I'll disagree strongly with you on Rey being just one of five main cast members in the first Star Wars films. She's quite clearly the lead character, and I'd say the others are secondary lead characters. If you want to bolster or test that, ask the average Joe or Jane who they thought the lead character of these films was, how many people will say "Poe" or "Finn"? Pretty much no one to be frank. Rey is quite clearly more the lead character than any of the others and to pass that off as "she just like the other 4" seems to be downplaying it for the sake of your argument.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

Yeah, the future of those two films is very much up in the air after the latest round of announcements, in fact it sounds more likely now that they will not be made, rather than that they will be. As such they shouldn't be brought up in this comparison of male vs female characters. If these films had been a go, I wouldn't have made the point I made.

Wert, I'll disagree strongly with you on Rey being just one of five main cast members in the first Star Wars films. She's quite clearly the lead character, and I'd say the others are secondary lead characters. If you want to bolster or test that, ask the average Joe or Jane who they thought the lead character of these films was, how many people will say "Poe" or "Finn"? Pretty much no one to be frank. Rey is quite clearly more the lead character than any of the others and to pass that off as "she just like the other 4" seems to be downplaying it for the sake of your argument.

I'd say Rey is the main character in the same sense Luke was originally. Han, Leia, Darth and the droids are important characters but it's Luke's film. Unless something happens in the third film that makes it clear the trilogy was actually about kylo's journey I'd say he, Finn and Poe are strong supporting characters only.

While it's great the new films have had female leads (besides solo, obviously) they have still been largely surrounded by male characters - most notably rogue one. Unless star wars biology is very different in the sense there are 10 males for every female they still have a way to go. The TV show might be a good way of doing this as the cartoons have shown mandalorians have a lot of women often in positions of leadership.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

Yeah, the future of those two films is very much up in the air after the latest round of announcements, in fact it sounds more likely now that they will not be made, rather than that they will be. As such they shouldn't be brought up in this comparison of male vs female characters. If these films had been a go, I wouldn't have made the point I made.

Wert, I'll disagree strongly with you on Rey being just one of five main cast members in the first Star Wars films. She's quite clearly the lead character, and I'd say the others are secondary lead characters. If you want to bolster or test that, ask the average Joe or Jane who they thought the lead character of these films was, how many people will say "Poe" or "Finn"? Pretty much no one to be frank. Rey is quite clearly more the lead character than any of the others and to pass that off as "she just like the other 4" seems to be downplaying it for the sake of your argument.

Rey didn't really feel like the main character to me in TLJ. Kylo Ren shared as much of the spotlight.

[Slurktan]

9 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Rey didn't really feel like the main character to me in TLJ. Kylo Ren shared as much of the spotlight.

I'd agree with that.  Ren weirdly gets a sort of Campbellian Hero's Journey (so does Luke for that matter) that Rey simply doesn't in TLJ.

[Werthead]

On 10/7/2018 at 7:53 PM, Calibandar said:

Yeah, the future of those two films is very much up in the air after the latest round of announcements, in fact it sounds more likely now that they will not be made, rather than that they will be. As such they shouldn't be brought up in this comparison of male vs female characters. If these films had been a go, I wouldn't have made the point I made.

Wert, I'll disagree strongly with you on Rey being just one of five main cast members in the first Star Wars films. She's quite clearly the lead character, and I'd say the others are secondary lead characters. If you want to bolster or test that, ask the average Joe or Jane who they thought the lead character of these films was, how many people will say "Poe" or "Finn"? Pretty much no one to be frank. Rey is quite clearly more the lead character than any of the others and to pass that off as "she just like the other 4" seems to be downplaying it for the sake of your argument.

TFA opens on Poe and Finn and remains focused on them for quite a large stretch of the film before Rey even shows up, then it's the Finn, Rey and Han show for the rest of the movie with a lot of cutting away to Ren.

TLJ I think has Ren and Luke very much in co-starring roles whilst pushing Finn and Poe back into supporting roles (a bit weirdly).

I think you're confusing the "focal character" of the story - the character who is playing the most important motivating role in the story - with the "main character". Luke is the focal character of the OT but we spend as much time with Han and Leia (this is especially prevalent in ESB and RotJ when they have their own subplots which are given very equal treatment). Frodo is the focal character of LotR but we spend - I think - noticeably longer amounts of screen time with Team Aragorn. Rand is the focal character of Wheel of Time, but other characters have more screen time (Rand vanishes for almost three entire books, with only a couple of scenes in each), and so forth.

Rey and Kylo Ren are certainly the key focal characters of the new trilogy, but it's so far been very much an ensemble piece.

[Corvinus85]

To change the subject, and because I don't think it deserves its own thread just yet, has anyone watched the pilot of the new animated show, Resistance?

I wasn't impressed. Yes, even more than the other main animated shows, this one is geared towards kids, but I found it quite bland. The other two shows benefited from being inserted at the time of great conflicts, while this one precedes the great conflict of the new trilogy. I would like to see a show about the rise of the First Order, because I'm still kinda in the dark on that. 

Also, and I said it before, I don't like the animation. Certainly not, when comparing with the other two shows. The race at the end had cool visuals, but I was less than impressed with the brief X-Wing vs. Elite TIE fighter encounter - the ship motions in that scene didn't look at all fluid.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

To change the subject, and because I don't think it deserves its own thread just yet, has anyone watched the pilot of the new animated show, Resistance?

I wasn't impressed. Yes, even more than the other main animated shows, this one is geared towards kids, but I found it quite bland. The other two shows benefited from being inserted at the time of great conflicts, while this one precedes the great conflict of the new trilogy. I would like to see a show about the rise of the First Order, because I'm still kinda in the dark on that. 

Also, and I said it before, I don't like the animation. Certainly not, when comparing with the other two shows. The race at the end had cool visuals, but I was less than impressed with the brief X-Wing vs. Elite TIE fighter encounter - the ship motions in that scene didn't look at all fluid.

Actually didn't know they were showing it last night. I stumbled upon it it part way through. I gave it ten tonfiftenn minutes, but found it uninspiring and tepid.  As I said before, I could deal with the animation, as it was a little like Tron Uprising in some respects.  But the story was not something that grabbed you.

[red snow]

Had no idea resistance was out already. Shane to hear it isn't impressing. I was hoping there'd be some reveal in the premier that would make the concept more interesting than the fairly bland synopsis. Maybe better stockpiling a few episodes and hoping some buzz generates before trying to watch

[red snow]

9 hours ago, Werthead said:

TFA opens on Poe and Finn and remains focused on them for quite a large stretch of the film before Rey even shows up, then it's the Finn, Rey and Han show for the rest of the movie with a lot of cutting away to Ren.

TLJ I think has Ren and Luke very much in co-starring roles whilst pushing Finn and Poe back into supporting roles (a bit weirdly).

I think you're confusing the "focal character" of the story - the character who is playing the most important motivating role in the story - with the "main character". Luke is the focal character of the OT but we spend as much time with Han and Leia (this is especially prevalent in ESB and RotJ when they have their own subplots which are given very equal treatment). Frodo is the focal character of LotR but we spend - I think - noticeably longer amounts of screen time with Team Aragorn. Rand is the focal character of Wheel of Time, but other characters have more screen time (Rand vanishes for almost three entire books, with only a couple of scenes in each), and so forth.

Rey and Kylo Ren are certainly the key focal characters of the new trilogy, but it's so far been very much an ensemble piece.

I'm pretty sure that the main and focal character are usually the same thing (although your LOTR movie example is a good example that could be an exception).  Even with your definitions I'd maintain Luke is both and over two films Rey is (I still think Ren might be the trilogy main character depending on how episode ix pans out). Going back to my memories of TFA I'd concede that Rey and Finn were the focus with Ren having the traditional nemesis role (it's pretty rare we get fleshed out antagonists in the superhero dominated landscape these days). I'd forgotten how the first time around there was a possibility Finn might be a force wielder and even when it turned out he wasn't (or is merely a weak one) there was still hope he'd get a lot if story but the sequel dumped him into a supporting role with a story that didn't really go anywhere.

R2D2 and C3PO aren't leads in the trilogy just because they are in the first scene and play a part throughout. They could be considered main characters but I'd personally consider them supporting characters. Storm troopers and aliens in the bar are more background characters and those between are incidental characters. I think there's a difference (probably a legal one) in movies defining roles regarding pay and credit order that differs from story roles.? Maybe someone with recent exposure to a storytelling/screenwriting course can shed some light?

[Werthead]

Marvel fired Chuck Wendig from the new Star Wars comic series he was doing for them, apparently for political reasons, after Lucasfilm had given him their support for the work he'd been doing for them elsewhere.

Very unpleasant and bizarre. Although I didn't rate Wendig's first Star Wars novel, that was down to the quality of the writing, not anything else, and the abuse, doxxing, SWATting and other things he suffered are clearly completely unacceptable.