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Kandrax

[Book spoilers] Plot holes that aren't in the books

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  • 1)The sole survivor of the prologue to the first book, A Game Of Thrones, is Gared, who stays with the horses and flees when the Others attack. In the series, we see the survivor, Will, come face-to-face with the White Walkers, but how or why he survived is never explained.
    • A similar event occurs in "Valar Morghulis" when a White Walker looks directly at Sam but leaves him alive for no apparent reason. In the equivalent chapter of A Storm Of Swords, Sam spends the majority of the battle in his tent composing an Apocalyptic Log and escapes with the rest. This also creates a plot hole in the next episode, where he gets yelled at for not sending ravens with their reports; in the books, he legitimately forgot in his panic (making all those notes he wrote useless), but in the show, he never had a chance.
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  • 2)"Winter is Coming" has a small one that only becomes clear when it's revealed Lysa's letter was actually a ploy. In the books, Catelyn's reaction is to urge Ned to go to King's Landing, which plays perfectly into the schemer's expectation of the only person they know at Winterfell. In the show, Catelyn staunchly opposes Ned going to King's Landing, meaning the schemer was just shooting in the dark.
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  • 3)After leaving the major instigating question of who sent the catspaw to kill Bran unresolved since the series' second episode, the Season 7 finale reveals that it was Littlefinger, a case of Not His Sled that still leaves an example of this trope since in the book the culprit had an unrelated motive (Joffrey was trying to Mercy Kill Bran in an honest attempt to save him from what he saw as a Fate Worse Than Death) and merely had to hire a thug on-site instead of somehow learning of Bran's fall, knowing evidence would implicate the Lannisters, and sending/coordinating a thug all from halfway across the continent. Granted, the timeline isn't impossible, but it is unlikely.
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  • 4)Despite nearly dying as a result, Tyrion seemingly forgets he was framed for trying to kill Bran since he never once probes into who framed him or why, even as he systematically removes his other opponents like Janos Slynt and Pycelle. In the books, Tyrion easily tracks the lie back but defers retaliation because Littlefinger is too useful and controls too many essential city officials, something that isn't true in the show where Littlefinger's power explicitly amounts to owning a brothel and borrowing from the Iron Bank.
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  • 5)In the books, Mirri Maz Duur adds "when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child" to her statement that Drogo will only return "when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east", implying that Dany is now infertile. The show omits this line but runs with the idea that Dany believes herself barren when she calls her dragons "the only children I will ever have" in Season 2, informs Khal Moro that she will bear no children "until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," in "The Red Woman", and outright says a witch told her she's barren in Season 7.
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  • 6)In the books, Robb Stark is King of both the North and the Riverlands, the latter due to his Tully mother, and there is a clear sense of strategic and political alliance and shared goals between the two Kingdoms. In the show, he is only King in the North, which raises the question of why exactly the Tullys and other Riverland lords are fighting on his side besides family loyalty, as they won't be part of his Kingdom.
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  • 7)During their parley, Stannis declares his conflict with Renly will be settled at dawn, yet his fleet is still far out to sea the next day, meaning Stannis sailed in for the parley and back out without bringing his forces in close enough for battle the next morning as he implied or even to catch anyone who might flee after Renly's murder, which he was clearly planning. In the books, the parley takes place between the two armies and Stannis only fails to capture those who flee because he lacks the cavalry to catch them.
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  • 8)When Davos rows Melisandre ashore in "Garden of Bones", the two of them cross the open beach to a cave containing a locked gate and act as if it's blocking the only passage to Renly's camp, even though a camp the size of Renly's must have other approaches. It's not even clear how the passage gets there, since the camp is in an open field. In the novels, this scene takes place in the bowels of Storm's End after Davos pilots Melisandre beneath the walls to bypass the ancient enchantments blocking the passage of her shadow assassin.
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  • 9)Matthos (who is easily in his twenties) argues the Lord of Light's power by bringing up his answered childhood prayers for his father's safety, yet Melisandre and her red god are obviously a new influence at Stannis' court in "The North Remembers" judging by Maester Cressen's protests against her. In the books, Davos' twelve-year-old son Devan is a new convert to the Lord of Light but Davos's older sons still observe the Faith of the Seven.
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  • 10)In the books, Summer and Shaggydog cannot protect Bran and Rickon when Theon storms Winterfell because they've been locked in the godswood ever since Shaggy bit Little Walder for roughhousing with Rickon. In the series, they're absent without explanation.
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  • 11)Rodrik Cassel takes two hundred men to follow Theon's bait to Torrhen Square but is then captured alone without explanation and his two hundred men (who outnumber Theon's 10:1) are never mentioned again, so other forces must be summoned to deal with Theon. In the books, rather than be captured, Rodrik defeats Theon's diversion and returns with even more men to besiege Theon in Winterfell until Ramsay arrives.
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  • 12)In the books, Theon wakes to find Osha has killed some guards and escaped with Bran and Rickon. This happens in the show too, but the night before, Osha also presents herself sexually to Theon, a Fanservice add-on that actually only complicates the plan by forcing her to first sneak out of Theon's bed without waking him or alerting his bodyguards. Later in the series, when Osha and Rickon are betrayed by the Umbers and seized by the Boltons, this is used against Osha in "Book of the Stranger" when she tries the same with Ramsay and Ramsay reveals he knows how Osha helped Rickon and Bran escape. This results in her death by Ramsay's hand.
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  • 13)Tyrion's clansmen are unseen during the Battle of Blackwater without explanation. In the books, they've been sent out to harry Stannis' advance through the Kingswood and are later credited with killing enough scouts to allow The Cavalry to surprise Stannis. This would be merely an Adaptation Explanation Extrication, except that in the show Stannis' army arrives entirely by sea, removing any opportunity to harry him.
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  • 14)During the show's Qarth arc, Daenerys goes from obviously on the run from the city's most powerful man to waltzing armed men into his bedchamber after barely killing the other half of the Big Bad Duumvirate. Then she simply leaves, having annihilated the city's leadership. In the books, she's run out of the city by the warlocks after Xaro withdraws his patronage.
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  • 15)After his break with them, Robb declares that the Karstark forces have marched "home", totally disregarding that the Greyjoys hold the border fortress of Moat Cailin, making it totally impossible for any northerners to march home. Retaking the Moat even becomes the main Bolton plotline in Season 4. In the novels, the Karstarks set off south and east to pillage the Riverlands in search of the Kingslayer instead. This crops up again in Season 5 when Brienne and Pod treat circumventing the castle as a minor inconvenience that's solved off-screen.
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  • 16)Robb decides to besiege Casterly Rock to raise morale and make the Lannisters engage him as if it's a brilliant new idea in Season 3, but judging from Robb going to the Crag and Jaime's guise as a thief from Ashemark, that's exactly where he was campaigning in Season 2. Assuming Oxcross is in the same place, Robb could probably have seen the Rock from the battlefield. In the books, this was Robb's initial plan but it was foiled by Balon's refusal to blockade the Rock by sea and Edmure's unexpected victory over Tywin at the Battle of the Fords, so his new plan is to restore his prestige by retaking the North.
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  • 17)Describing Qhorin as "my brother once" and Castle Black as "my home for many years" establishes Mance Rayder as a Night's Watch deserter, so he and his captains should have a healthy knowledge of the Watch's long decline, yet Jon successfully bluffs that there are more men at Castle Black than in the entire Watch and insists on dealing with Karl's mutineers because, "Mance has all he needs to crush us, he just doesn't know it yet." In the books, Jon knows "too blatant a lie would betray him" even to experienced raiders and Mance is considered dangerous specifically because of his inside knowledge.
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  • 18)Arya says Rorge can't be on her kill list because she doesn't know his name, never mind that her list has already memorably included "the Tickler", "the Mountain", "the Hound", and "the Red Woman". In the books proper names are never particularly important to her and she never targets Rorge even though she knows his name.
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  • 19)In the books, Littlefinger uses Lysa's despised singer Marillion as his patsy for Lysa's murder. Unfortunately, the show already amputated Marillion's tongue in place of a random singer in "Fire and Blood" and neglected to furnish a replacement, making Littlefinger's plan quite uncharacteristically amateurish in order for Sansa to step up to save him.
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  • 20)In the books, Jaime makes a very important confession while freeing Tyrion from the black cells that puts Tyrion in a very dark state-of-mind, leading him to risk seeking out Tywinwith murder and a Driving Question on his mind and Shae is just collateral damage. Without Jaime's confession, in the show Shae becomes Tyrion's motive, but only after he's already in the room where he expected to find Tywin.
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  • 21)Robert and Cersei's black-haired Canon Foreigner child provides drama in the first season, but isn't fitted into other elements of the story. Cersei herself refers to the canon foreigner as "my first boy" in Season 1 but to Joffrey as her "firstborn" in Season 5, and when we hear the prophecy she received in her youth in "The Wars to Come", the writers trip in their math by leaving Cersei's offspring at three and the prophecy's tone suggesting she and Robert wouldn't have any children together.
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  • 22)In the books, the parody of the War of the Five Kings at the Purple Wedding is far less vulgar toward Joffrey's rivals (especially Renly who gets a Historical Hero Upgrade to please his former in-laws the Tyrells) and the whole idea of jousting dwarfs was planted by Littlefinger to insult Tyrion - which would give Tyrion a motive, and draw suspicions away from the Tyrells. In the show Joffrey apparently came up with the whole thing himself and the folly's crudely homophobic portrayal of Renly visibly offends the Tyrells, yet Tyrion is immediately blamed and arrested as in the book.
    • On a related note, in the novels Olenna's motive is explained by Littlefinger as her realizing, "Toss Joffrey, Margaery, and Loras in a pot and you've got the makings for kingslayer stew," because Joffrey is uncontrollable and Loras is hot-tempered, but of course in the show Margaery has already shown remarkable skill at manipulating Joffrey and "hot-tempered" isn't a trait most viewers would attribute to Loras, nor is he required to remain at court even if it was since he's not a Kingsguard. In the show, Olenna simply says, "You didn't think I'd let you marry that monster, did you?" which Margaery protests almost angrily by saying, "But I would have been the Queen!"
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  • 23)In "Mother's Mercy", Jon is branded a traitor by Thorne and others for letting wildlings through the Wall, even though Thorne himself opened the gate for them in the previous episode and removing Jon now only worsens the odds of controlling them. Thorne's Motive Rant in ''The Red Woman" also makes no mention of fears of Bolton reprisals for Jon supporting Stannis, disproving a common fan explanation. In the books, Jon himself orders the gate opened after imposing strict conditions on the wildlings and, despite repeated arguments with dissident officers, the Watch still defers to his authority until he arguably breaks neutrality by convincing the wildlings to aid him in confronting Ramsay after receiving his threatening letter.
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  • 24)Sansa and Theon leap from Winterfell's high walls as their Cliffhanger in "Mother's Mercy", but—like Will and Sam's confrontations with the White Walkers — the next we see they're already on the run a good distance away with no explanation for their survival beyond a light skiff of snow on the ground. In the books, the snow is half the height of the walls and even then some bones are broken.
    • Similarly, in the novels their escape is masked by a snowstorm and they only need to make it a few hundred yards to the safety of Stannis' siege lines (it's actually Mors Umber, but nevermind), while in the show there's no storm and Ramsay has just slaughtered Stannis' army, leaving no force large enough to protect them... and Ramsay loves hunting but for some reason sends just six men on this very important mission.
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  • 25)In prior seasons, Theon's claim to be "heir to Pyke and the Iron Islands" is only ever challenged by the implication his father might overrule Heir Club For Men in favour of Yara, and Balon even threatens to disinherit Yara just before his death, yet when Yara tries to assert her rights, suddenly "the law is clear" the next ruler must be elected by the previously unmentioned kingsmoot. In the books, rather than suddenly always being the law of the land, the kingsmoot is a long-derelict tradition dredged up in an attempt to oust Euron after he's already seized the throne.
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  • 26)In the books, Balon is the victim of a Faceless Man, whom Arya's plotline proves have supernatural means of infiltration and escape. In the show, Euron does it himself with no explanation of how he got on or off that bridge in the very heart of his victim's stronghold.
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  • 27)In Seasons 4 and 5, the Boltons' position is constantly described as precarious since the North will jump at the call to restore the Starks, which is explicitly why Locke stalks Jon and why Ramsay marries Sansa. Yet in Season 6, the Boltons suddenly only need the Umbers, Karstarks, and Manderlys to ensure "none could challenge us" and gain two of them (with the third staying neutral) solely by being anti-Stark while Jon and Sansa are refused by nearly everyone except Lyanna Mormont (who's actually won over mostly by Davos explaining the coming Zombie Apocalypse) even though Rickon, a trueborn Stark son, is in dire need of a Roaring Rampage of Rescue, a fact that's dismissed by Lady Mormont and not even mentioned to Lord Glover. Contrast all this with the books where many northern nobles make impassioned speeches and work against the Boltons in a myriad of ways, including secretly looking to Rickon as the Rightful King Returns.
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  • 28)The Tyrells and Martells both apparently suffer an extreme Single Line of Descent in the show, as not only have their respective heirs, Willas and Arianne, been Adapted Out, but after their members are massacred in Season 6 the rule of Highgarden and Sunspear devolves unopposed to Olenna (a Tyrell only by marriage) and Ellaria (the bastard-born paramour of a younger son) instead of any cousins. In season 7 removing Ellaria and the Sand Snakes effectively takes Dorne out of the picture entirely, despite its forces (the only army in Westoros still at full strength) never even taking the field. In the novels, there are multiple cousins and collateral relations of both Houses and a number of ambitious vassals who would rush to fill the power vacuum, most notably the Florents and Hightowers in the Reach and the Yronwoods and Daynes in Dorne.
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  • 29)Trystane Martell is described as Prince Doran's "youngest son" when Tyrion arranges his betrothal to Myrcella in "What Is Dead May Never Die", but Doran's other children are never mentioned again and Trystane is his only heir in Season 5. In the novels, Trystane is the third child behind his sister Arianne and his brother Quentyn.
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  • 30)The books eventually reveal Varys' actual plan is to support a boy he claims is Rhaegar's son and has been raised to be the perfect king, but with this character eventually Adapted OutVarys is retconned into backing Dany from the start, even though she didn't show the mass humanitarianism he so prizes until Season 3 or even any leadership skill until the middle of Season 1, during which time Varys and Illyrio clearly supported Viserys (who never showed either) to the extent that Dany was just a pawn they bartered to buy him an army.
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  • 31)In the books, the Siege of Riverrun occurs not too long after the Red Wedding, and the reason the Tully forces hold it is because Robb left the Blackfish in command to hold the castle, and he is determined to obey his King's last order for as long as he can. By contrast, there is a much longer gap in the show, the Tullys hold Riverrun due to a later successful rebellion against the Freys, and the Blackfish's motivation is a much more personal and vague one about it being his family home.
    • In the books, Edmure Tully is sent in to negotiate the Blackfish's surrender, in which the latter agrees to stand his men down. In the show, by contrast, Edmure is just sent to overrule the Blackfish, on the basis that all the Tully forces will obey Edmure's orders to surrender over the Blackfish's contrary orders as Edmure is Lord of Riverrun, even when Edmure's orders involve him giving up his rights as Lord of Riverrun.
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  • 32)Season 4 attempts a bit of Adaptation Distillation by combining Brienne's subplot from A Feast For Crows with Arya's subplot from A Storm Of Swords, which creates some problems with Brienne's character motivations. In the books, Brienne's search for Sansa and Arya ends with her being captured by the Brotherhood Without Banners before she manages to find either of them, while Arya ultimately leaves the Hound after he's incapacitated by a wound from a fight. In the show, Brienne ultimately finds Arya and the Hound, but Arya runs away after she tries to orderher to come with her. Unfortunately, this scene raises some awkward questions about where Brienne actually planned to take Arya after finding her: she can't take her back to her family, since almost all of them are dead by that point, and she has no real justification for demanding that Arya come with her, since she can see that she isn't in immediate danger. The show seems to imply that she plans to take Arya to King's Landing for her safety—which runs pretty counter to Brienne's characterization, since it's the last thing that Catelyn would have wanted for her daughter. The Hound actually directly asks her where she plans to take Arya, and she never gives a real answer.
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  • 33)Season 5 greatly simplifies the events leading up to Jon's election as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. In both, Jon is thrust into the position without pursuing it but in the show, Jon is elected despite many in the Watch being still suspicious of Jon due to his time with the wildlings, while in the books, Sam pulls a Batman Gambit to make Jon a viable candidate without Jon's knowledge and Jon wins the election in a Dark Horse Victory. In A Storm Of Swords, there were over half a dozen nominees for Lord Commander, but the election rules stipulated that nominees were allowed to support other nominees by forfeiting their votes to them; most of the votes were split between two bitter rivals who loathed each other, so Sam craftily got Jon elected by convincing both of the two front-runners that the other front-runner was going to win. Sam persuades both of them to drop out and support Jon so the other's hated rival doesn't win — using Jon's Stark heritage, highborn education, time as Lord Commander Mormont's steward, and his leadership role in the Battle for Castle Black as points in Jon's favour — and Jon is elected by the rest of the Watch because they don't want the other remaining candidate Janos Slynt to win. In the show, when Sam introduces Jon as a candidate, he speaks openly to all about Jon's leadership abilities in the Battle for Castle Black and that the late Lord Commander Mormont chose Jon to be his steward, which wins support for Jon. Jon fairly wins the election (albeit narrowly) without Sam's scheme in the books, even though he's a relatively new member of the Watch and many are still suspicious of him due to his time with the wildlings.
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  • 34)In the Season 7 premiere, Dany takes over an utterly abandoned Dragonstone with no resistance, implying not only that Stannis left no garrison but that in the two seasons since his departure, the Lannisters didn't bother to occupy this massive and strategic fortress that dominates the entrance to Blackwater Bay (and therefore the sea routes to King's Landing). In the books, Stannis left a small garrison which, due to the castle's immense strength, tied down significant Lannister forces to blockade and besiege, culminating in a bloody assault to storm the walls.
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  • 35)Benjen Stark's repeated claim that as an undead wight, he cannot travel south of the Wall causes some minor issues with the show continuity. While it is true that the Wall was built to keep the Army of the Dead out and they cannot cross it of their own volition, there have been cases of members of the Night's Watch bringing wights across the wall. In fact, the whole reason Jon was up north when he encountered Benjen in "Beyond the Wall" was because he was looking for a wight to take down south to prove their existence. It's not clear exactly how the magic works, but the implication is that undead can be moved across the wall if it benefits the living for them to do so, which raises the question as to why Jon or Bran couldn't have brought Benjen across when they met him. Show!Benjen is actually a Composite Character of two different characters from the books -Benjen Stark, a Night's Watch ranger who disappears early in the story, and Coldhands, a mysterious free-willed undead who by Word Of Godis NOT Benjen Stark in the book continuity. While Coldhands' identity in the books is not known, it's implied that, lacking Benjen's friends and family down south, he simply has no real need or desire to travel south of the Wall.
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  • 36)In the books, dragonglass and Valyrian steel can be used to kill the Others, but are no more useful against Wights than any other weapon - the only way to dispose of Wights is to burn them. The show mixes the two up - in the Season 7 finale, Jon explicitly says dragonglass and Valyrian steel can be used to kill Wights, despite the fact that his own Valyrian steel sword had little effect on them in the Battle of Hardhome two seasons prior.
Edited by Kandrax

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To be honest, I am surprised it's that few. I expected more. Also some of the changes they made with LF I didn't realize how much they kinda dumbed down his character. Interesting list though.

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5 hours ago, btfu806 said:

To be honest, I am surprised it's that few. I expected more. Also some of the changes they made with LF I didn't realize how much they kinda dumbed down his character. Interesting list though.

Do you find some of this listed which you don't consider plot holes?

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a good list of plot holes. a few on the list are things which have really caused things to be to simplistic as the show wraps up, mainly the Tyrell and Martells, and others cause big contradictions to the narrative within the show, why kill jon after you have definitive proof that Ice Zombies are on the way, and of course there is the massacre of the Stark legacy in the North and the glory that is The North Remembers just so we could get The Battle of the Bastards.

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11 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Do you find some of this listed which you don't consider plot holes?

I don't know if they would all be plot holes or just lazy writing... Such as what would Brianne do when she gets Arya, bring her back to King's Landing? I guess it's a plot hole, but to me it is just lazy writing, especially after you mash two plots together.

Also, I am surprised there isn't much from Season 6 now, when I look through the list. I remember watching it thinking there were a ton... or at least inconsistencies. Maybe that's why they are not listed.

4 hours ago, The Golden Wolf said:

a good list of plot holes. a few on the list are things which have really caused things to be to simplistic as the show wraps up, mainly the Tyrell and Martells, and others cause big contradictions to the narrative within the show, why kill jon after you have definitive proof that Ice Zombies are on the way, and of course there is the massacre of the Stark legacy in the North and the glory that is The North Remembers just so we could get The Battle of the Bastards.

I get wanting to make things simplistic, though I wish they never did but then again, maybe the show wouldn't be as successful as it is without some simplicity. But the contradictions and inconsistencies in the show, that's what has really killed it for me these last couple of seasons. 

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19 hours ago, btfu806 said:

To be honest, I am surprised it's that few. I expected more. Also some of the changes they made with LF I didn't realize how much they kinda dumbed down his character. Interesting list though.

Don´t forget these are plot holes created in adaptation proces, not those in show-only material.

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1 minute ago, Rhodan said:

Don´t forget these are plot holes created in adaptation proces, not those in show-only material.

Ahhhhhh that makes a lot more sense....

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5 hours ago, Rhodan said:

Don´t forget these are plot holes created in adaptation proces, not those in show-only material.

true, the Show only material Plot holes would be Why would Littlefinger trade Sansa to the Boltons without ensuring that she would have a powerbase to aid her?

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3 hours ago, The Golden Wolf said:

true, the Show only material Plot holes would be Why would Littlefinger trade Sansa to the Boltons without ensuring that she would have a powerbase to aid her?

Maybe, because he wasn't aware how bad was Ramsay and didn't expect anything to happen to Sansa.

He isn't all-knowing, and even in  the books Ramsay doesn't have 7K-wide reputation as Gregor.

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2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Maybe, because he wasn't aware how bad was Ramsay and didn't expect anything to happen to Sansa.

He isn't all-knowing, and even in  the books Ramsay doesn't have 7K-wide reputation as Gregor.

that is not any kind of valid reasoning though. Sansa's value is as a Stark, the Boltons are her families most infamous enemies. even if he did not know of Ramsay's behavior he still sent her to the Boltons, the family who were just as complicit in the murder of her family as the Freys without any kind of support. There was no reason for him to think that they wouldn't isolate her and just use the fact they have her as leverage over the other families and once she was wedded, bedded, and impregnated by a Bolton that would ensure that Bolton blood has a legitimate claim to Winterfell. 

It could have made more sense if the Northern Lords were actually utilized. That the North actually freakin' Remembered the Starks and did not want to see the Ned's lil' girl married to a monster. That behind the scenes Sansa and Littlefinger were turning the lords to her side and getting ready to oust the Boltons. Instead we got Winterhell and Sansa as robbed of any sense of agency she gained in the previous season because D$D could not plot out something compelling to do with the North besides Hardhome. 

Oh and don't forget the fuckery that was done to Stannis and poor lil Shireen. 

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On July 7, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Kandrax said:

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  • 1)The sole survivor of the prologue to the first book, A Game Of Thrones, is Gared, who stays with the horses and flees when the Others attack. In the series, we see the survivor, Will, come face-to-face with the White Walkers, but how or why he survived is never explained.
    • A similar event occurs in "Valar Morghulis" when a White Walker looks directly at Sam but leaves him alive for no apparent reason. In the equivalent chapter of A Storm Of Swords, Sam spends the majority of the battle in his tent composing an Apocalyptic Log and escapes with the rest. This also creates a plot hole in the next episode, where he gets yelled at for not sending ravens with their reports; in the books, he legitimately forgot in his panic (making all those notes he wrote useless), but in the show, he never had a chance.
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  • 2)"Winter is Coming" has a small one that only becomes clear when it's revealed Lysa's letter was actually a ploy. In the books, Catelyn's reaction is to urge Ned to go to King's Landing, which plays perfectly into the schemer's expectation of the only person they know at Winterfell. In the show, Catelyn staunchly opposes Ned going to King's Landing, meaning the schemer was just shooting in the dark.
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  • 3)After leaving the major instigating question of who sent the catspaw to kill Bran unresolved since the series' second episode, the Season 7 finale reveals that it was Littlefinger, a case of Not His Sled that still leaves an example of this trope since in the book the culprit had an unrelated motive (Joffrey was trying to Mercy Kill Bran in an honest attempt to save him from what he saw as a Fate Worse Than Death) and merely had to hire a thug on-site instead of somehow learning of Bran's fall, knowing evidence would implicate the Lannisters, and sending/coordinating a thug all from halfway across the continent. Granted, the timeline isn't impossible, but it is unlikely.
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  • 4)Despite nearly dying as a result, Tyrion seemingly forgets he was framed for trying to kill Bran since he never once probes into who framed him or why, even as he systematically removes his other opponents like Janos Slynt and Pycelle. In the books, Tyrion easily tracks the lie back but defers retaliation because Littlefinger is too useful and controls too many essential city officials, something that isn't true in the show where Littlefinger's power explicitly amounts to owning a brothel and borrowing from the Iron Bank.
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  • 5)In the books, Mirri Maz Duur adds "when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child" to her statement that Drogo will only return "when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east", implying that Dany is now infertile. The show omits this line but runs with the idea that Dany believes herself barren when she calls her dragons "the only children I will ever have" in Season 2, informs Khal Moro that she will bear no children "until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," in "The Red Woman", and outright says a witch told her she's barren in Season 7.
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  • 6)In the books, Robb Stark is King of both the North and the Riverlands, the latter due to his Tully mother, and there is a clear sense of strategic and political alliance and shared goals between the two Kingdoms. In the show, he is only King in the North, which raises the question of why exactly the Tullys and other Riverland lords are fighting on his side besides family loyalty, as they won't be part of his Kingdom.
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  • 7)During their parley, Stannis declares his conflict with Renly will be settled at dawn, yet his fleet is still far out to sea the next day, meaning Stannis sailed in for the parley and back out without bringing his forces in close enough for battle the next morning as he implied or even to catch anyone who might flee after Renly's murder, which he was clearly planning. In the books, the parley takes place between the two armies and Stannis only fails to capture those who flee because he lacks the cavalry to catch them.
  •  
  • 8)When Davos rows Melisandre ashore in "Garden of Bones", the two of them cross the open beach to a cave containing a locked gate and act as if it's blocking the only passage to Renly's camp, even though a camp the size of Renly's must have other approaches. It's not even clear how the passage gets there, since the camp is in an open field. In the novels, this scene takes place in the bowels of Storm's End after Davos pilots Melisandre beneath the walls to bypass the ancient enchantments blocking the passage of her shadow assassin.
  •  
  • 9)Matthos (who is easily in his twenties) argues the Lord of Light's power by bringing up his answered childhood prayers for his father's safety, yet Melisandre and her red god are obviously a new influence at Stannis' court in "The North Remembers" judging by Maester Cressen's protests against her. In the books, Davos' twelve-year-old son Devan is a new convert to the Lord of Light but Davos's older sons still observe the Faith of the Seven.
  •  
  • 10)In the books, Summer and Shaggydog cannot protect Bran and Rickon when Theon storms Winterfell because they've been locked in the godswood ever since Shaggy bit Little Walder for roughhousing with Rickon. In the series, they're absent without explanation.
  •  
  • 11)Rodrik Cassel takes two hundred men to follow Theon's bait to Torrhen Square but is then captured alone without explanation and his two hundred men (who outnumber Theon's 10:1) are never mentioned again, so other forces must be summoned to deal with Theon. In the books, rather than be captured, Rodrik defeats Theon's diversion and returns with even more men to besiege Theon in Winterfell until Ramsay arrives.
  •  
  • 12)In the books, Theon wakes to find Osha has killed some guards and escaped with Bran and Rickon. This happens in the show too, but the night before, Osha also presents herself sexually to Theon, a Fanservice add-on that actually only complicates the plan by forcing her to first sneak out of Theon's bed without waking him or alerting his bodyguards. Later in the series, when Osha and Rickon are betrayed by the Umbers and seized by the Boltons, this is used against Osha in "Book of the Stranger" when she tries the same with Ramsay and Ramsay reveals he knows how Osha helped Rickon and Bran escape. This results in her death by Ramsay's hand.
  •  
  • 13)Tyrion's clansmen are unseen during the Battle of Blackwater without explanation. In the books, they've been sent out to harry Stannis' advance through the Kingswood and are later credited with killing enough scouts to allow The Cavalry to surprise Stannis. This would be merely an Adaptation Explanation Extrication, except that in the show Stannis' army arrives entirely by sea, removing any opportunity to harry him.
  •  
  • 14)During the show's Qarth arc, Daenerys goes from obviously on the run from the city's most powerful man to waltzing armed men into his bedchamber after barely killing the other half of the Big Bad Duumvirate. Then she simply leaves, having annihilated the city's leadership. In the books, she's run out of the city by the warlocks after Xaro withdraws his patronage.
  •  
  • 15)After his break with them, Robb declares that the Karstark forces have marched "home", totally disregarding that the Greyjoys hold the border fortress of Moat Cailin, making it totally impossible for any northerners to march home. Retaking the Moat even becomes the main Bolton plotline in Season 4. In the novels, the Karstarks set off south and east to pillage the Riverlands in search of the Kingslayer instead. This crops up again in Season 5 when Brienne and Pod treat circumventing the castle as a minor inconvenience that's solved off-screen.
  •  
  • 16)Robb decides to besiege Casterly Rock to raise morale and make the Lannisters engage him as if it's a brilliant new idea in Season 3, but judging from Robb going to the Crag and Jaime's guise as a thief from Ashemark, that's exactly where he was campaigning in Season 2. Assuming Oxcross is in the same place, Robb could probably have seen the Rock from the battlefield. In the books, this was Robb's initial plan but it was foiled by Balon's refusal to blockade the Rock by sea and Edmure's unexpected victory over Tywin at the Battle of the Fords, so his new plan is to restore his prestige by retaking the North.
  •  
  • 17)Describing Qhorin as "my brother once" and Castle Black as "my home for many years" establishes Mance Rayder as a Night's Watch deserter, so he and his captains should have a healthy knowledge of the Watch's long decline, yet Jon successfully bluffs that there are more men at Castle Black than in the entire Watch and insists on dealing with Karl's mutineers because, "Mance has all he needs to crush us, he just doesn't know it yet." In the books, Jon knows "too blatant a lie would betray him" even to experienced raiders and Mance is considered dangerous specifically because of his inside knowledge.
  •  
  • 18)Arya says Rorge can't be on her kill list because she doesn't know his name, never mind that her list has already memorably included "the Tickler", "the Mountain", "the Hound", and "the Red Woman". In the books proper names are never particularly important to her and she never targets Rorge even though she knows his name.
  •  
  • 19)In the books, Littlefinger uses Lysa's despised singer Marillion as his patsy for Lysa's murder. Unfortunately, the show already amputated Marillion's tongue in place of a random singer in "Fire and Blood" and neglected to furnish a replacement, making Littlefinger's plan quite uncharacteristically amateurish in order for Sansa to step up to save him.
  •  
  • 20)In the books, Jaime makes a very important confession while freeing Tyrion from the black cells that puts Tyrion in a very dark state-of-mind, leading him to risk seeking out Tywinwith murder and a Driving Question on his mind and Shae is just collateral damage. Without Jaime's confession, in the show Shae becomes Tyrion's motive, but only after he's already in the room where he expected to find Tywin.
  •  
  • 21)Robert and Cersei's black-haired Canon Foreigner child provides drama in the first season, but isn't fitted into other elements of the story. Cersei herself refers to the canon foreigner as "my first boy" in Season 1 but to Joffrey as her "firstborn" in Season 5, and when we hear the prophecy she received in her youth in "The Wars to Come", the writers trip in their math by leaving Cersei's offspring at three and the prophecy's tone suggesting she and Robert wouldn't have any children together.
  •  
  • 22)In the books, the parody of the War of the Five Kings at the Purple Wedding is far less vulgar toward Joffrey's rivals (especially Renly who gets a Historical Hero Upgrade to please his former in-laws the Tyrells) and the whole idea of jousting dwarfs was planted by Littlefinger to insult Tyrion - which would give Tyrion a motive, and draw suspicions away from the Tyrells. In the show Joffrey apparently came up with the whole thing himself and the folly's crudely homophobic portrayal of Renly visibly offends the Tyrells, yet Tyrion is immediately blamed and arrested as in the book.
    • On a related note, in the novels Olenna's motive is explained by Littlefinger as her realizing, "Toss Joffrey, Margaery, and Loras in a pot and you've got the makings for kingslayer stew," because Joffrey is uncontrollable and Loras is hot-tempered, but of course in the show Margaery has already shown remarkable skill at manipulating Joffrey and "hot-tempered" isn't a trait most viewers would attribute to Loras, nor is he required to remain at court even if it was since he's not a Kingsguard. In the show, Olenna simply says, "You didn't think I'd let you marry that monster, did you?" which Margaery protests almost angrily by saying, "But I would have been the Queen!"
  •  
  • 23)In "Mother's Mercy", Jon is branded a traitor by Thorne and others for letting wildlings through the Wall, even though Thorne himself opened the gate for them in the previous episode and removing Jon now only worsens the odds of controlling them. Thorne's Motive Rant in ''The Red Woman" also makes no mention of fears of Bolton reprisals for Jon supporting Stannis, disproving a common fan explanation. In the books, Jon himself orders the gate opened after imposing strict conditions on the wildlings and, despite repeated arguments with dissident officers, the Watch still defers to his authority until he arguably breaks neutrality by convincing the wildlings to aid him in confronting Ramsay after receiving his threatening letter.
  •  
  • 24)Sansa and Theon leap from Winterfell's high walls as their Cliffhanger in "Mother's Mercy", but—like Will and Sam's confrontations with the White Walkers — the next we see they're already on the run a good distance away with no explanation for their survival beyond a light skiff of snow on the ground. In the books, the snow is half the height of the walls and even then some bones are broken.
    • Similarly, in the novels their escape is masked by a snowstorm and they only need to make it a few hundred yards to the safety of Stannis' siege lines (it's actually Mors Umber, but nevermind), while in the show there's no storm and Ramsay has just slaughtered Stannis' army, leaving no force large enough to protect them... and Ramsay loves hunting but for some reason sends just six men on this very important mission.
  •  
  • 25)In prior seasons, Theon's claim to be "heir to Pyke and the Iron Islands" is only ever challenged by the implication his father might overrule Heir Club For Men in favour of Yara, and Balon even threatens to disinherit Yara just before his death, yet when Yara tries to assert her rights, suddenly "the law is clear" the next ruler must be elected by the previously unmentioned kingsmoot. In the books, rather than suddenly always being the law of the land, the kingsmoot is a long-derelict tradition dredged up in an attempt to oust Euron after he's already seized the throne.
  •  
  • 26)In the books, Balon is the victim of a Faceless Man, whom Arya's plotline proves have supernatural means of infiltration and escape. In the show, Euron does it himself with no explanation of how he got on or off that bridge in the very heart of his victim's stronghold.
  •  
  • 27)In Seasons 4 and 5, the Boltons' position is constantly described as precarious since the North will jump at the call to restore the Starks, which is explicitly why Locke stalks Jon and why Ramsay marries Sansa. Yet in Season 6, the Boltons suddenly only need the Umbers, Karstarks, and Manderlys to ensure "none could challenge us" and gain two of them (with the third staying neutral) solely by being anti-Stark while Jon and Sansa are refused by nearly everyone except Lyanna Mormont (who's actually won over mostly by Davos explaining the coming Zombie Apocalypse) even though Rickon, a trueborn Stark son, is in dire need of a Roaring Rampage of Rescue, a fact that's dismissed by Lady Mormont and not even mentioned to Lord Glover. Contrast all this with the books where many northern nobles make impassioned speeches and work against the Boltons in a myriad of ways, including secretly looking to Rickon as the Rightful King Returns.
  •  
  • 28)The Tyrells and Martells both apparently suffer an extreme Single Line of Descent in the show, as not only have their respective heirs, Willas and Arianne, been Adapted Out, but after their members are massacred in Season 6 the rule of Highgarden and Sunspear devolves unopposed to Olenna (a Tyrell only by marriage) and Ellaria (the bastard-born paramour of a younger son) instead of any cousins. In season 7 removing Ellaria and the Sand Snakes effectively takes Dorne out of the picture entirely, despite its forces (the only army in Westoros still at full strength) never even taking the field. In the novels, there are multiple cousins and collateral relations of both Houses and a number of ambitious vassals who would rush to fill the power vacuum, most notably the Florents and Hightowers in the Reach and the Yronwoods and Daynes in Dorne.
  •  
  • 29)Trystane Martell is described as Prince Doran's "youngest son" when Tyrion arranges his betrothal to Myrcella in "What Is Dead May Never Die", but Doran's other children are never mentioned again and Trystane is his only heir in Season 5. In the novels, Trystane is the third child behind his sister Arianne and his brother Quentyn.
  •  
  • 30)The books eventually reveal Varys' actual plan is to support a boy he claims is Rhaegar's son and has been raised to be the perfect king, but with this character eventually Adapted OutVarys is retconned into backing Dany from the start, even though she didn't show the mass humanitarianism he so prizes until Season 3 or even any leadership skill until the middle of Season 1, during which time Varys and Illyrio clearly supported Viserys (who never showed either) to the extent that Dany was just a pawn they bartered to buy him an army.
  •  
  • 31)In the books, the Siege of Riverrun occurs not too long after the Red Wedding, and the reason the Tully forces hold it is because Robb left the Blackfish in command to hold the castle, and he is determined to obey his King's last order for as long as he can. By contrast, there is a much longer gap in the show, the Tullys hold Riverrun due to a later successful rebellion against the Freys, and the Blackfish's motivation is a much more personal and vague one about it being his family home.
    • In the books, Edmure Tully is sent in to negotiate the Blackfish's surrender, in which the latter agrees to stand his men down. In the show, by contrast, Edmure is just sent to overrule the Blackfish, on the basis that all the Tully forces will obey Edmure's orders to surrender over the Blackfish's contrary orders as Edmure is Lord of Riverrun, even when Edmure's orders involve him giving up his rights as Lord of Riverrun.
  •  
  • 32)Season 4 attempts a bit of Adaptation Distillation by combining Brienne's subplot from A Feast For Crows with Arya's subplot from A Storm Of Swords, which creates some problems with Brienne's character motivations. In the books, Brienne's search for Sansa and Arya ends with her being captured by the Brotherhood Without Banners before she manages to find either of them, while Arya ultimately leaves the Hound after he's incapacitated by a wound from a fight. In the show, Brienne ultimately finds Arya and the Hound, but Arya runs away after she tries to orderher to come with her. Unfortunately, this scene raises some awkward questions about where Brienne actually planned to take Arya after finding her: she can't take her back to her family, since almost all of them are dead by that point, and she has no real justification for demanding that Arya come with her, since she can see that she isn't in immediate danger. The show seems to imply that she plans to take Arya to King's Landing for her safety—which runs pretty counter to Brienne's characterization, since it's the last thing that Catelyn would have wanted for her daughter. The Hound actually directly asks her where she plans to take Arya, and she never gives a real answer.
  •  
  • 33)Season 5 greatly simplifies the events leading up to Jon's election as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. In both, Jon is thrust into the position without pursuing it but in the show, Jon is elected despite many in the Watch being still suspicious of Jon due to his time with the wildlings, while in the books, Sam pulls a Batman Gambit to make Jon a viable candidate without Jon's knowledge and Jon wins the election in a Dark Horse Victory. In A Storm Of Swords, there were over half a dozen nominees for Lord Commander, but the election rules stipulated that nominees were allowed to support other nominees by forfeiting their votes to them; most of the votes were split between two bitter rivals who loathed each other, so Sam craftily got Jon elected by convincing both of the two front-runners that the other front-runner was going to win. Sam persuades both of them to drop out and support Jon so the other's hated rival doesn't win — using Jon's Stark heritage, highborn education, time as Lord Commander Mormont's steward, and his leadership role in the Battle for Castle Black as points in Jon's favour — and Jon is elected by the rest of the Watch because they don't want the other remaining candidate Janos Slynt to win. In the show, when Sam introduces Jon as a candidate, he speaks openly to all about Jon's leadership abilities in the Battle for Castle Black and that the late Lord Commander Mormont chose Jon to be his steward, which wins support for Jon. Jon fairly wins the election (albeit narrowly) without Sam's scheme in the books, even though he's a relatively new member of the Watch and many are still suspicious of him due to his time with the wildlings.
  •  
  • 34)In the Season 7 premiere, Dany takes over an utterly abandoned Dragonstone with no resistance, implying not only that Stannis left no garrison but that in the two seasons since his departure, the Lannisters didn't bother to occupy this massive and strategic fortress that dominates the entrance to Blackwater Bay (and therefore the sea routes to King's Landing). In the books, Stannis left a small garrison which, due to the castle's immense strength, tied down significant Lannister forces to blockade and besiege, culminating in a bloody assault to storm the walls.
  •  
  • 35)Benjen Stark's repeated claim that as an undead wight, he cannot travel south of the Wall causes some minor issues with the show continuity. While it is true that the Wall was built to keep the Army of the Dead out and they cannot cross it of their own volition, there have been cases of members of the Night's Watch bringing wights across the wall. In fact, the whole reason Jon was up north when he encountered Benjen in "Beyond the Wall" was because he was looking for a wight to take down south to prove their existence. It's not clear exactly how the magic works, but the implication is that undead can be moved across the wall if it benefits the living for them to do so, which raises the question as to why Jon or Bran couldn't have brought Benjen across when they met him. Show!Benjen is actually a Composite Character of two different characters from the books -Benjen Stark, a Night's Watch ranger who disappears early in the story, and Coldhands, a mysterious free-willed undead who by Word Of Godis NOT Benjen Stark in the book continuity. While Coldhands' identity in the books is not known, it's implied that, lacking Benjen's friends and family down south, he simply has no real need or desire to travel south of the Wall.
  •  
  • 36)In the books, dragonglass and Valyrian steel can be used to kill the Others, but are no more useful against Wights than any other weapon - the only way to dispose of Wights is to burn them. The show mixes the two up - in the Season 7 finale, Jon explicitly says dragonglass and Valyrian steel can be used to kill Wights, despite the fact that his own Valyrian steel sword had little effect on them in the Battle of Hardhome two seasons prior.

1. This might be a plot hole and it might not. It is a plot hole if the White Walkers are mindless creatures whose only drive is to exterminate humanity. If the White Walkers are sentient, then it is not a plot hole. That particular White Walker may have thought that Sam was too cowardly and wasn't worth killing, or maybe he wanted at least one survivor to inform the Seven Kingdoms that winter was coming for them.

2. Not a plot hole. It was a shot in the dark in any case. Littlefinger couldn't possibly know how Catelyn would react. The letter would have made her realize that King's Landing was not safe, so her not wanting Ned to go into enemy territory was a perfectly valid and predictable response. Ned refusing the king's request wasn't really an option, anyway.

3. Not a plot hole. Littlefinger may have been planning to kill one of the Stark children all along to turn the Starks against the Lannisters even more. The assassin may have chosen Bran because he was the easiest target. 

4. Not a plot hole. Littlefinger may have just as much power as he does in the books. He's clearly presented as a dangerous and influential man who managed to turn the gold cloaks against Ned Stark.

5. Not a plot hole. Mirri Maz Durr could have told her off screen.

6. Not a plot hole. The Starks and Tullys share a common enemy. Besides, family loyalty means a great deal to them. It's in their House words, after all.

7. Not a plot hole. It wasn't implied that he was planning on catching anyone. He assumed Renly's forces would join him when Renly fell.

8. Not a plot hole. Renly would have surely have had guards on patrol. They wanted to sneak around without being detected, so they chose a cave as their entry point.

9. Not a plot hole. Mathos said he prayed for Davos's safe return. He didn't say which gods he was praying to. He may have been trying to open up Davos's mind to religion.

10. Not a plot hole. They may have been chained up or were in a kennel for a similar reason. An unexplained plot point is not the same thing as a plot hole.

11. Not a plot hole. A dropped plot point is not the same thing as a plot hole. They may have stayed at Torrhen's Square to protect it from further attack or had gone back to their homes.

12. Not a plot hole. First off, not sure why this is classified as fan service. I don't remember anyone begging for this to happen. Second, it's perfectly possible to sneak out of bed without waking someone up. She could have killed the guard quietly.

13. Not a plot hole. Just because they weren't seen doesn't mean they weren't there. Again, a dropped plot point is not the same as a plot hole.

14. Not a plot hole. Xaro may have had lax security or Dany's forces may have caught them by surprise.

15. Not a plot hole. Robb only knows that they headed off to home, not that they actually made it. They may have been camped out at Moat Cailin into Ramsay took the castle. Pod and Brienne may have taken a row boat, similar to the one she and Jaime took, and simply rowed around it.

16. Not a plot hole. Geography from the books may not resemble that of the show. Taking on Casterly Rock is a huge gamble. Robb was a lot more desperate in season 3 than he was in season 2.

17. Not a plot hole. Mance has been a deserter for 20 years. A lot can happen in 20 years.

18. Not a plot hole. Arya didn't know Rorge's name or any nickname he may have gone by. 

19. Not a plot hole. Littlefinger made a mistake. Humans are capable of making mistakes.

20. Not a plot hole. Shae wasn't Tyrion's motive for seeking Tywin out. Tywin's treatment of Tyrion for his entire life was the reason Tyrion entered Tywin's bed chamber.

21. Not a plot hole. Prophecies are shown to be unreliable in GOT, as shown by Melisandre's incorrect prediction that Stannis would win the Battle for Winterfell. The witch incorrectly predicting that Cersei would only have three children doesn't  make it a plot hole.

22. Not a plot hole. Tensions between Tyrion and Joffrey were intense and Tyrion had already publicly threatened Joffrey, both at his wedding to Sansa and after they received news of the Red Wedding. Cersei didn't need any other reason to suspect Tyrion was guilty of her son's murder.

23. Not a plot hole. Opening defying the Lord Commander's orders would have led to a Night's Watch civil war, where loyalists would be able to rally around Jon. This way, Thorne could kill Jon unimpeded and have a chance to explain his reasonings. The other men wouldn't have anyone to rally behind, and wouldn't know which of their brother's they could trust. 

24. I don't think plot hole is the right word, but fine. Let's call it a plot hole. Sansa and Theon should either be dead or seriously injured.

25. Not a plot hole. The kingsmoot may simply be a formality where the eldest son is normally chosen. Theon was obviously arrogant enough to believe that he would definitely be elected.

26. Not a plot hole. Euron may be capable at assassination. An unexplained plot point isn't the same as a plot hole.

27. Not a plot hole. Roose Bolton may have been unaware at how battle wary the Northern lords were and how the Starks have lost their trust after the blunders Robb made in the War of Five Kings. 

28. Not a plot hole. Since there are no relatives, the leadership falls to the ones who receive the most support. After Ellaria's capture, there may have been a power struggle in Dorne that stopped them from providing further aid to Danerys.

29. Not a plot hole. Tyrion said he would marrry Myrcella off to the youngest son of House Martell, which happened to be Trystane.

30. Not a plot hole. Varys may not be aware of Visery's personality or was planning to kill Viserys off once he produced a male Targaryen heir.

31. Not a plot hole. Edmure is lord of Riverrun and those were his men. They were sworn to obey his orders.

32. Not a plot hole. It was not at all clear that Brienne wanted to take Arya back to King's Landing. She just figured that Arya was safest with her by her side. She may even have taken Arya to Tarth, where her family would protect her.

33. Not a plot hole. Thorne was suspicious of Jon, but there was no indication that most of the other members were as well. Sam stated quite clearly why Jon was worthy of being commander.

34. Not a plot hole. It may have been completely abandoned after Stannis left, and it's geography and strategic importance may be different in the show. Besides, events in King's Landing may have distracted Cersei and she may not have thought about taking Dragonstone.

35. Not a plot hole. The two corpses may not have been wightified until after they entered Castle Black, which may be a loop hole in the Wall's magic. The wight from "Beyond the Wall" was flown over the Wall, not through it, which may also have been a loop hole. Jon didn't know about the Wall's magic, which led him to believe the wight hunt was possible without a dragon.

36. My memory may be foggy. The only time I remember Jon using his Valyrian steel sword on a wight was when he did that 360 move at Hardhome and cut the wight to pieces. Were there scenes that specifically showed that Longclaw was ineffective? Also, in season 7, did Jon say that Valyrian steel can kill wights? I only remember him saying fire and dragonglass. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Not a plot hole. Renly would have surely have had guards on patrol. They wanted to sneak around without being detected, so they chose a cave as their entry point.

Renly camp is on open field, so where would traveling through  a  cave led them?

Also,  no patrol could stop Shadowbaby.

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

He didn't say which god

I think he mentioned R'hllor.

 

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

don't remember anyone begging for this to happen.

Fanservice is the use of sex or sexualized situations to reward or entice viewers.

 

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Robb only knows that they headed off to home, not that they actually made it. T

 Karstarks know that Ironborns hold the North, which  that they know can't pass into it.

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

nickname

No one said that Red woman is Mel's nickname, yet she used it.

 

6 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

youngest son 

Yet, it was never mentioned that Doran had older son.

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50 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Yet, it was never mentioned that Doran had older son.

Of course, just from the writing perspective, one can ask if Tyrion wouldn´t simply say "heir to Dorne" or something like that.

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2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Renly camp is on open field, so where would traveling through  a  cave led them?

Also,  no patrol could stop Shadowbaby.

No, but they could stop Davos and Melisandre.

 

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

I think he mentioned R'hllor.

At the beginning, but when he said that "every night, I prayed for you to come home," he never specifically said who he was praying to. As I said, he may have been simply trying to open up Davos's mind to religion.

 

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Fanservice is the use of sex or sexualized situations to reward or entice viewers.

I suppose.

 

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Karstarks know that Ironborns hold the North, which  that they know can't pass into it.

Once abandoning Robb"s cause, where else would they go?

 

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

No one said that Red woman is Mel's nickname, yet she used it.

A nickname she came up with herself. She might not have had one for Rorge.

 

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Yet, it was never mentioned that Doran had older son.

Here's how the conversation went: 

Tyrion: I'm brokering an alliance with House Martell of Dorne. Princess Myrcella will wed their youngest son when she comes of age.

Doran, Oberyn, and Tyrstane could all be considered as sons of House Martell, with Trystane being the youngest son.

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2 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

No, but they could stop Davos and Melisandre.

 

At the beginning, but when he said that "every night, I prayed for you to come home," he never specifically said who he was praying to. As I said, he may have been simply trying to open up Davos's mind to religion.

 

I suppose.

 

Once abandoning Robb"s cause, where else would they go?

 

A nickname she came up with herself. She might not have had one for Rorge.

 

Here's how the conversation went: 

Tyrion: I'm brokering an alliance with House Martell of Dorne. Princess Myrcella will wed their youngest son when she comes of age.

Doran, Oberyn, and Tyrstane could all be considered as sons of House Martell, with Trystane being the youngest son.

you are doing a great job of defending some poor choices on the writing of the show. D$D would be happy they have fans like you 

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12 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

1. This might be a plot hole and it might not. It is a plot hole if the White Walkers are mindless creatures whose only drive is to exterminate humanity. If the White Walkers are sentient, then it is not a plot hole. That particular White Walker may have thought that Sam was too cowardly and wasn't worth killing, or maybe he wanted at least one survivor to inform the Seven Kingdoms that winter was coming for them.

2. Not a plot hole. It was a shot in the dark in any case. Littlefinger couldn't possibly know how Catelyn would react. The letter would have made her realize that King's Landing was not safe, so her not wanting Ned to go into enemy territory was a perfectly valid and predictable response. Ned refusing the king's request wasn't really an option, anyway.

3. Not a plot hole. Littlefinger may have been planning to kill one of the Stark children all along to turn the Starks against the Lannisters even more. The assassin may have chosen Bran because he was the easiest target. 

4. Not a plot hole. Littlefinger may have just as much power as he does in the books. He's clearly presented as a dangerous and influential man who managed to turn the gold cloaks against Ned Stark.

5. Not a plot hole. Mirri Maz Durr could have told her off screen.

6. Not a plot hole. The Starks and Tullys share a common enemy. Besides, family loyalty means a great deal to them. It's in their House words, after all.

7. Not a plot hole. It wasn't implied that he was planning on catching anyone. He assumed Renly's forces would join him when Renly fell.

8. Not a plot hole. Renly would have surely have had guards on patrol. They wanted to sneak around without being detected, so they chose a cave as their entry point.

9. Not a plot hole. Mathos said he prayed for Davos's safe return. He didn't say which gods he was praying to. He may have been trying to open up Davos's mind to religion.

10. Not a plot hole. They may have been chained up or were in a kennel for a similar reason. An unexplained plot point is not the same thing as a plot hole.

11. Not a plot hole. A dropped plot point is not the same thing as a plot hole. They may have stayed at Torrhen's Square to protect it from further attack or had gone back to their homes.

12. Not a plot hole. First off, not sure why this is classified as fan service. I don't remember anyone begging for this to happen. Second, it's perfectly possible to sneak out of bed without waking someone up. She could have killed the guard quietly.

13. Not a plot hole. Just because they weren't seen doesn't mean they weren't there. Again, a dropped plot point is not the same as a plot hole.

14. Not a plot hole. Xaro may have had lax security or Dany's forces may have caught them by surprise.

15. Not a plot hole. Robb only knows that they headed off to home, not that they actually made it. They may have been camped out at Moat Cailin into Ramsay took the castle. Pod and Brienne may have taken a row boat, similar to the one she and Jaime took, and simply rowed around it.

16. Not a plot hole. Geography from the books may not resemble that of the show. Taking on Casterly Rock is a huge gamble. Robb was a lot more desperate in season 3 than he was in season 2.

17. Not a plot hole. Mance has been a deserter for 20 years. A lot can happen in 20 years.

18. Not a plot hole. Arya didn't know Rorge's name or any nickname he may have gone by. 

19. Not a plot hole. Littlefinger made a mistake. Humans are capable of making mistakes.

20. Not a plot hole. Shae wasn't Tyrion's motive for seeking Tywin out. Tywin's treatment of Tyrion for his entire life was the reason Tyrion entered Tywin's bed chamber.

21. Not a plot hole. Prophecies are shown to be unreliable in GOT, as shown by Melisandre's incorrect prediction that Stannis would win the Battle for Winterfell. The witch incorrectly predicting that Cersei would only have three children doesn't  make it a plot hole.

22. Not a plot hole. Tensions between Tyrion and Joffrey were intense and Tyrion had already publicly threatened Joffrey, both at his wedding to Sansa and after they received news of the Red Wedding. Cersei didn't need any other reason to suspect Tyrion was guilty of her son's murder.

23. Not a plot hole. Opening defying the Lord Commander's orders would have led to a Night's Watch civil war, where loyalists would be able to rally around Jon. This way, Thorne could kill Jon unimpeded and have a chance to explain his reasonings. The other men wouldn't have anyone to rally behind, and wouldn't know which of their brother's they could trust. 

24. I don't think plot hole is the right word, but fine. Let's call it a plot hole. Sansa and Theon should either be dead or seriously injured.

25. Not a plot hole. The kingsmoot may simply be a formality where the eldest son is normally chosen. Theon was obviously arrogant enough to believe that he would definitely be elected.

26. Not a plot hole. Euron may be capable at assassination. An unexplained plot point isn't the same as a plot hole.

27. Not a plot hole. Roose Bolton may have been unaware at how battle wary the Northern lords were and how the Starks have lost their trust after the blunders Robb made in the War of Five Kings. 

28. Not a plot hole. Since there are no relatives, the leadership falls to the ones who receive the most support. After Ellaria's capture, there may have been a power struggle in Dorne that stopped them from providing further aid to Danerys.

29. Not a plot hole. Tyrion said he would marrry Myrcella off to the youngest son of House Martell, which happened to be Trystane.

30. Not a plot hole. Varys may not be aware of Visery's personality or was planning to kill Viserys off once he produced a male Targaryen heir.

31. Not a plot hole. Edmure is lord of Riverrun and those were his men. They were sworn to obey his orders.

32. Not a plot hole. It was not at all clear that Brienne wanted to take Arya back to King's Landing. She just figured that Arya was safest with her by her side. She may even have taken Arya to Tarth, where her family would protect her.

33. Not a plot hole. Thorne was suspicious of Jon, but there was no indication that most of the other members were as well. Sam stated quite clearly why Jon was worthy of being commander.

34. Not a plot hole. It may have been completely abandoned after Stannis left, and it's geography and strategic importance may be different in the show. Besides, events in King's Landing may have distracted Cersei and she may not have thought about taking Dragonstone.

35. Not a plot hole. The two corpses may not have been wightified until after they entered Castle Black, which may be a loop hole in the Wall's magic. The wight from "Beyond the Wall" was flown over the Wall, not through it, which may also have been a loop hole. Jon didn't know about the Wall's magic, which led him to believe the wight hunt was possible without a dragon.

36. My memory may be foggy. The only time I remember Jon using his Valyrian steel sword on a wight was when he did that 360 move at Hardhome and cut the wight to pieces. Were there scenes that specifically showed that Longclaw was ineffective? Also, in season 7, did Jon say that Valyrian steel can kill wights? I only remember him saying fire and dragonglass. 

 

 

Maybe you're right that plot hole isn't the right term, but not explained well enough, or leaving your head scratching could be terms that work. Anytime you have to use the phrase, "they may have" it's you just guessing at the plot, or possible explanation for something that doesn't make sense. That could be done for every poor choice the show made.

Though, to be fair, I do agree with some of your points about not being plot holes.

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55 minutes ago, The Golden Wolf said:

you are doing a great job of defending some poor choices on the writing of the show. D$D would be happy they have fans like you 

Well, they have 12 million fans just like me, probably more, and they certainly deserve them. That said, I’m not defending all of these writing choices, as I also have problems with some of them, I’m just explaining why they are not plot holes.

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7 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Maybe you're right that plot hole isn't the right term, but not explained well enough, or leaving your head scratching could be terms that work. Anytime you have to use the phrase, "they may have" it's you just guessing at the plot, or possible explanation for something that doesn't make sense. That could be done for every poor choice the show made.

Though, to be fair, I do agree with some of your points about not being plot holes.

A plot hole is a very specific criticism that involves a plot point that directly contradicts the logic presented in the story. For example, if Tyrion had said that Doran had two sons, and then later had one, that would have been a plot hole. But they kept the wording vague, possibly because they weren’t sure what they were going to do with the Dornish plot yet. If there is a possible explanation, like all of those “ maybes” and “may haves” I put in my post, it can’t be considered a plot hole. However, you can call it bad writing all you want.

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