Jump to content
Leonardo

Am I the only one who really enjoys ADWD?

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, White Ravens said:

If you do any more rereads I suggest that you try a merged chapter order like the one listed on the ALL LEATHER MUST BE BOILED website.  The story flows much better.

Thanks, I keep meaning to do that but....

Edited by Castellan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

considering it sold 298,000 copies in a day, went to number one in the best sellers charts in several countries and was nominated for three prestigious writing awards I'm gonna say no you are not the only one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love it too. I'm not sure I could say it's the best one but I love it because I feel the characters and plots are at that exact point in the story where things got more compelling, in my perspective (the same for Feast). And so pretty much every characters' chapters are more interesting to read just for that, and the sense of mystery and unpredictability post-Storm. Jon's chapters in particular are one of my favourites in the entire series and I'm not against the worldbuilding and cast expansion. I also read the books consecutively so I didn't have to wait for Dance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't even aware that people disliked this book. Like most people, my favourite book is ASoS, but ADwD is a close second. 

I really enjoyed watching Jon lead the Nights Watch as Lord Commander and watching him have to deal with both the wildlings, Melisandre, and the Queen's Men. 

I loved the Theon, Asha, and Davos chapters because it gave us insight into the politics of the North. 

The Tyrion chapters where great because we got to see how he deals with being in situations he has never been in his entire life. 

Barristan Chapters are fun because we are seeing the world from his perspective for the first time. 

I even enjoyed the characters we only got a few chapters from, like Victarion, Arya, Jaime, Cersei, and Melisandre, all for their own reasons. 

The only POV I was kind of on the fence about was Daenerys, but that might be because they tend to be next to Jon chapters. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but its hard for me to take her seriously when one chapter I'm watching Jon trying to band together Nights Watchmen, Northerners, Wildlings and giants in order to literally save the world, and then the next chapter I'm listening to Daenerys complain about having to marry Hizdahr, and how Daario is ignoring her. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is the best book out of the five.  The transition to Essos is fine by me.  The more pages devoted to the characters that I like is always going to make the book more enjoyable for me.  AFFC was awful because I don't like Sansa, Arya, Jaime, Samwell.  A Dance with Dragons had more of its story taking place away from KL and away from the North and that is what I enjoyed about it.  It would have been better without the Arya and Jon Snow but maybe there will be some relief for me in the next book if Jon Snow takes the Big Sleep for good.  

 

Edited by Allardyce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/5/2018 at 10:55 PM, Leonardo said:

ADWD has Tyrion's adventures in Essos(though I understand why people aren't a fan of his character atm), which include the Sorrows, his time with the mercenaries, as well as Volantis, Pentos, and his time with the cheesemonger and Griff. It also has Jon Snow's time and growth as the LC of the Watch, which interests me to no end (though I find the King's men/Queen's Men politics unimportant), as well as Bran's journey into the North and his mind, as well of that of Bloodraven, a character with more clout than maybe any in the series left alive. The meereneese knot is a hassle to untangle and understand, but I enjoy Dany's passages in this book far more than ACOK for the most part.

 

I see more issues with AFFC; while I love Brienne's outings and her winding Duncan-like path, Cersei's madness becomes hard to bear, and a powerless Sansa begins to wear on everyone I feel, who has been that way for a number of books now. Arya's story is good but not as good as Tyrion's wanderings, who is effectively her narrative counterpart along with Sam in that we see more of Essos through their eyes.

 

Of all the books I re-read or relisten through audio, it's probably the source most drawn off for me. Anyone else feel this way, or is there a certain novel that calls to them more than the rest? The writing also feels very inspired, which is ironic given its place in the series.

Feast and dance are two pars of the same book. If they are read together they make far more sense 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2018 at 1:55 AM, Leonardo said:

ADWD has Tyrion's adventures in Essos(though I understand why people aren't a fan of his character atm), which include the Sorrows, his time with the mercenaries, as well as Volantis, Pentos, and his time with the cheesemonger and Griff. It also has Jon Snow's time and growth as the LC of the Watch, which interests me to no end (though I find the King's men/Queen's Men politics unimportant), as well as Bran's journey into the North and his mind, as well of that of Bloodraven, a character with more clout than maybe any in the series left alive. The meereneese knot is a hassle to untangle and understand, but I enjoy Dany's passages in this book far more than ACOK for the most part.

 

I see more issues with AFFC; while I love Brienne's outings and her winding Duncan-like path, Cersei's madness becomes hard to bear, and a powerless Sansa begins to wear on everyone I feel, who has been that way for a number of books now. Arya's story is good but not as good as Tyrion's wanderings, who is effectively her narrative counterpart along with Sam in that we see more of Essos through their eyes.

 

Of all the books I re-read or relisten through audio, it's probably the source most drawn off for me. Anyone else feel this way, or is there a certain novel that calls to them more than the rest? The writing also feels very inspired, which is ironic given its place in the series.

I am sorry to say but the belief that ADWD was not a book enjoyed by the majority of readers is completely false.  The book was a bestseller and it was the best book in aSoIaF.  I think you're paying too much attention to the haters and the gripers out there.  Statistics do not support the belief that aDwD was enjoyed less by the readers.

I loved aDwD.  I welcomed it's arrival after the sleep inducing AFFC.  Book 4, AFFC, was very hard for me to read through because it was missing my favorite person and it took place in locations that held little interest for me.  I have no such problem with aDwD.  The dragon riding chapter was awesome.  It brought back the magic of aGoT.   Dany and Asha were awesome in their pov chapters that I loved.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, ADWD is a mixed bag.  Some parts I loved, while others I found less interesting, or even actively disliked.

First, the good news:  I loved the Northern story, all 5 POVs of it.  It was really interesting and kept me engaged all the way through.

The rest of the book, not so much.  I found Tyrion's journey less interesting the farther east it went.  By the time he left Volantis, I didn't really care any more.  Dany's story was interesting, but repetitious in places.  And if Quentyn and Victarion were to disappear completely, I would consider the final product an improvement.

As for the rest, I loved Jaime's chapter, didn't like Arya's stuff in Braavos (I like her, just not in Braavos, and was OK with Cersei.

Better than some (AFFC), and worse than others (ASOS is my favorite)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Count Balerion said:

My dirty secret is that I enjoyed the Quentyn chapters as well. "How vexing," said the Tattered Prince.

The contents of those chapters, might I add, was quiet inflammable amongst the fanship

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ADWD is also my second favorite book in the entire series. I thoroughly enjoyed Jon's and Dany's complex respective leadership arcs. Loved all of Jon's interactions with Stannis. Tyrion's POV is the only one in it I don't find that enjoyable (large parts of it being both boring and disturbing), until he becomes a slave, that is. Many of the themes/motifs explored in ADWD - cannibalism comes to mind - fascinate me. ADWD has some of GRRM's finest prose, and some of the finest chapters in all of ASOIAF (thinking of Theon, Davos and Bran in particular).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/7/2018 at 4:42 AM, White Ravens said:

If you do any more rereads I suggest that you try a merged chapter order like the one listed on the ALL LEATHER MUST BE BOILED website.  The story flows much better.

I disagree. I tried to read Feast+Dance in chronological order, and I felt it was a mess in terms of flow and momentum.

The main reason is the the great number of POVs combined with the lack of a cohesive storyline that unites them (which, btw, is IMHO the main flaw in Feast+Dance in comparison with previous books). With the combined books, you'd end one character's chapter and you'd have to wait ten to twenty chapters to find out what happens next.

I found much more gratifying to reread the books by POVs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like A Dance With Dragons and A Feast For Crows, though I'd still have preferred the two had been kept as one book - and I'd definitely buy such an edition if it's ever released. There's character development in those books, and the political intrigue is interesting.

My main criticism is that Doran's revelation of the marriage pact just comes across as a retcon, but that could be addressed in Winds Of Winter. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To OP - You are not sir. It is my favorite book in the whole series. The first time I read both AFfC and ADwD, I will admit I did not like them as much the first three books, but upon my first reread, it immediately jumped out that I misjudged them and that I missed a lot of the deeper stuff going on the first time around. Recently, on my fourth reread ADwD finally passed ASoS as my favorite in the series. I just love everything happening in it. I love how much the plot has expanded and how complicated things are now. I think a lot of what Martin is doing is so beautiful and complex. Unlike others, I enjoyed the Meerenese chapters. Jon's and Tyrion's were also really interesting (although Tyrion himself did some things I hated, his journey was thoroughly enjoyable to me). Arya's short part was also good. Finally, and most importantly, was Theon. His character arc is the main reason that pushed ADwD over ASoS. 

Side note : AFfC also passed AGoT pushing AGoT to my last place book. There are parts of AFfC I hate (cough...Aeron...cough...Greyjoy), but I also really enjoy Martin's extended look at the consequences of war (something also covered heavily in the Dunk and Egg books and partially talked about in ADwD, too). Brienne's chapters are some of my favorites in the entire series and I have no idea why people don't enjoy them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2018 at 1:55 AM, Leonardo said:

ADWD has Tyrion's adventures in Essos(though I understand why people aren't a fan of his character atm), which include the Sorrows, his time with the mercenaries, as well as Volantis, Pentos, and his time with the cheesemonger and Griff. It also has Jon Snow's time and growth as the LC of the Watch, which interests me to no end (though I find the King's men/Queen's Men politics unimportant), as well as Bran's journey into the North and his mind, as well of that of Bloodraven, a character with more clout than maybe any in the series left alive. The meereneese knot is a hassle to untangle and understand, but I enjoy Dany's passages in this book far more than ACOK for the most part.

 

I see more issues with AFFC; while I love Brienne's outings and her winding Duncan-like path, Cersei's madness becomes hard to bear, and a powerless Sansa begins to wear on everyone I feel, who has been that way for a number of books now. Arya's story is good but not as good as Tyrion's wanderings, who is effectively her narrative counterpart along with Sam in that we see more of Essos through their eyes.

 

Of all the books I re-read or relisten through audio, it's probably the source most drawn off for me. Anyone else feel this way, or is there a certain novel that calls to them more than the rest? The writing also feels very inspired, which is ironic given its place in the series.

You're in good company.  I enjoyed that book.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

My dirty secret is that I enjoyed the Quentyn chapters as well. "How vexing," said the Tattered Prince.

Q's chapters were fun.  Here's this inexperienced boy sent on a badly planned mission to win over a Targaryen princess with three dragons and all he had to offer was the promise of Dornish support but contingent on marriage.  He doesn't want to let papa down so he does something very stupid and got killed for his troubles.  These chapters will be important because it will result in the fracture of Dorne.  The Martells will have rebellion on their hands.  The Yronwoods will support Dany while the Martells will throw in with the Blackfyre boy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are fun, and I find Q likeable. The objection, I gather, is that since the poor chap dies it doesn't go anywhere and when is GRRM going to finish? Which I sympathise with, because I want him to finish too. But in themselves they're enjoyable, and I still don't know that they won't affect the plot, for example fracturing Dorne as you say. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:55 PM, Leonardo said:

ADWD has Tyrion's adventures in Essos(though I understand why people aren't a fan of his character atm), which include the Sorrows, his time with the mercenaries, as well as Volantis, Pentos, and his time with the cheesemonger and Griff. It also has Jon Snow's time and growth as the LC of the Watch, which interests me to no end (though I find the King's men/Queen's Men politics unimportant), as well as Bran's journey into the North and his mind, as well of that of Bloodraven, a character with more clout than maybe any in the series left alive. The meereneese knot is a hassle to untangle and understand, but I enjoy Dany's passages in this book far more than ACOK for the most part.

 

I see more issues with AFFC; while I love Brienne's outings and her winding Duncan-like path, Cersei's madness becomes hard to bear, and a powerless Sansa begins to wear on everyone I feel, who has been that way for a number of books now. Arya's story is good but not as good as Tyrion's wanderings, who is effectively her narrative counterpart along with Sam in that we see more of Essos through their eyes.

 

Of all the books I re-read or relisten through audio, it's probably the source most drawn off for me. Anyone else feel this way, or is there a certain novel that calls to them more than the rest? The writing also feels very inspired, which is ironic given its place in the series.

No, but I must admit that I preferred reading ADWD as a simultaneous reread with AFFC.  It made way more sense to me that way so I could enjoy both books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/9/2018 at 10:53 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Q's chapters were fun.  Here's this inexperienced boy sent on a badly planned mission to win over a Targaryen princess with three dragons and all he had to offer was the promise of Dornish support but contingent on marriage.  He doesn't want to let papa down so he does something very stupid and got killed for his troubles.  These chapters will be important because it will result in the fracture of Dorne.  The Martells will have rebellion on their hands.  The Yronwoods will support Dany while the Martells will throw in with the Blackfyre boy.

23 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

They are fun, and I find Q likeable. The objection, I gather, is that since the poor chap dies it doesn't go anywhere and when is GRRM going to finish? Which I sympathise with, because I want him to finish too. But in themselves they're enjoyable, and I still don't know that they won't affect the plot, for example fracturing Dorne as you say. 

I actually love Q's chapters- they are greatly-written, he's a highly enjoyable and relatable protagonist, they have a clear theme and purpose, etc...but all that being said, why?  If GRRM is having trouble combining all these POVs into one book for AFFC/ADWD, why is he adding 4 chapters of a new POV that is entirely unnecessary?  When I say unnecessary, I mean that this could take place entirely off-page.  You already have Arriane's POV in which Quentyn's mission is somewhat revealed by Doran (add a half-page more to fully describe what he is doing if you need to) and then you have Dany's POV to pick up right when Quentyn arrives in Meereen.  The only thing you actually need Quentyn's POV for is his death scene, and why do you need to show that other than it's cool?  Even the stuff with the Tattered Prince which I assume will have some kind of payoff can be present in another POV like Dany's or Barristan's.  

Overall, that's my biggest issue with ADWD, even though I agree that I love it and think it is one of the better books in ASOIAF.  But if you could cut out a few POVs and maybe fit in the Battle of Ice into ADWD, it's even better.  

But yes, I think ADWD is great.  Jon's chapters are among my favorites in the series along with Theon's, and Tyrion's beginning and ending chapters I love (basically everything pre-Jorah and Penny and post-escaping from the Yellow Whale).  I love Tyrion's interactions with Connington, Faegon, and Lemore and Halfmaester on the Shy Maid as well as Illyrio and Brown Ben Plumm.  Dany's chapters do drag a lot for me (nothing unique to ADWD) I must admit, but they certainly stick the landing in her final chapter.  And Davos and Barristan are great POVs with some really memorable moments (the North Remembers and Barristan beating the shit out of that pit fighter).  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×